aaah what's the point of either arguing against or depending the way all that works in its present state.  Let's wait to see how it shakes down with the upcoming promised fixes.

Randy B.

bit,

They have indeed taken those away from you, replaced by tools that will destroy the universe.

One of the things he mentioned was the midi track colours, and this is something which has bugged me too, so let me elaborate a little bit on this. On the one hand it is nice that Sonar gives each track a different colour, and it is also sometimes nice that different velocities get different shades of a colour, but sometimes this causes problems. If the colours are too bright the notes become hard to see, which happens when your working with very low velocities. Take an example that just happened to me, let's say you have a piano piece to which your going to add an orchestral accompaniment. Add all the instruments to the piano-roll and Sonar has a useful feature which let's you grey out the piano-part, so that it won't accidentally be edited, and then you draw in the other instruments on top of that. This is very elegant and the reason I started using Sonar. But what if the whole thing is in pianissimo, with velocities in the twenties or perhaps lower? For one it becomes very difficult to tell the instruments apart, and not only that, but it becomes difficult to tell apart the instruments that are greyed out from those that aren't. My solution was to simply change all the velocity to higher values while I was working and change them back afterwards, but I think you'll see that this is a little un-elegant and un-Sonar-worthy.

It is possible to stop the velocity affecting the colour shade in the PRV, from the manual..........


MIDI note velocity colorization
PRVColorizeVelocity=<0 or 1>, default = 1
MIDI note colors are tinted depending on their velocities. Notes will appear darker for higher
velocities and lighter for lower velocities.
This feature may be enabled (1) or disabled (0) in the [WinCake] section of the Cakewalk.ini
file. For example:
[WinCake]
PRVColorizeVelocity=0


hope that helps.

F-Keys suck.

I agree with bitflipper. First person shooter keys are great- you kind of just let your hand rest at the side of the keyboard.Too much to clamber over to get to the F-Keys

OK- I will.... <snarkily> (just joking)

I just have deep affinity with FPS keys due to years of Doom and after that Quake 2 and 3. They are automatic to me and to millions of others.

Because I don't want to get into a pissing match about the S, D, E, Q, etc. vs F5, F6, F7, F8, F9 and F10.

Besides, it should be pretty obvious why S =select, D = draw, E = erase, Q = quiet was a good idea. :-(


best regards,
mike

One of my other points though Mike is that all those who prefer that way of thinking need to do is re-map the tools to those keys, and ignore the smart tool completely if they want.

mike_mccue

Because I don't want to get into a pissing match about the S, D, E, Q, etc. vs F5, F6, F7, F8, F9 and F10. 

Besides, it should be pretty obvious why S =select, D = draw, E = erase, Q = quiet was a good idea. :-(


best regards,
mike

+1...


...and I would add:


Selectable, Visible tools (yes, I will insist...) are even better... mainly, we have to use hands to play and/or "draw" notes... not "type" anything.....


Komputer keyboard shouldn't be used (almost) at all while playing/editing.....


Plus, Toolbars' Visual feedback is invaluable time saver...............................



Edit: those above are JUST some reasons for Benstat's "Sonar Toolbar Plus" is being welcome and appreciated by the community....... 

mike_mccue

FastBikerBoy


I think this thread just highlights the need for some X1 tutorials. How is pressing S, D, & E quicker than using just the one tool?

Well, that's why I said:


"I can think of many good reasons why using F5, F6, F7, F8, F9 and F10 is more effective than depending on the smart tool to do the thinking.

If those reasons don't occur to someone..."


Because I don't want to get into a pissing match about the S, D, E, Q, etc. vs F5, F6, F7, F8, F9 and F10.

Besides, it should be pretty obvious why S =select, D = draw, E = erase, Q = quiet was a good idea. :-(


best regards,
mike

I remember reading that post and thought you were joking. Oh well. This thread continues down an otherworldy path with people who have either not read the thread or never used the Smart Tool and are still making the point about whether S D E is better or worse than F5 F6 etc. when you no longer have to use either?

We're obviously in two different worlds. One where pressing multiple keys is better and/or faster and/or 'pretty obvious' the better key selection, and another world where one tool does everything quickly and easily.

So hats off to those who like the old way and want to press multiple keys to get the job done, and hats off to those who like the new way where one tool does it all, but one thing seems pretty clear - those two worlds are not coming together any time soon. Enjoy

HumbleNoise

So hats off to those who like the old way and want to press multiple keys to get the job done, and hats off to those who like the new way where one tool does it all, but one thing seems pretty clear - those two worlds are not coming together any time soon. Enjoy 

............

How is
  clicking the middle button to show the Heads Up MENU
  moving eyes away from note to identify what tool to choose
  moving to that tool
  clicking to select

is faster than pressing S D E,..??? 

I am happy it can be done with one hand. But it CANNOT be faster performing more steps.

AND::::    it is not just the tools, it is the note duration values as well.

Moving these to Control-Shift-number makes no sense.

Having to use a dropdown menu (another click, attention away from work,...) makes no sense.

Removing quick visual feedback of note value makes no sense.

Every time you guys explain how the new tools work fine if we would just press and hold a key, double click, click to select something from the mouse menus, proves the point that the new tools require more keystrokes, and clicks, and brain attention, and time.

Of course some of the changes are welcomed.

But many of the changes, throughout the program, require more attention, and time, and clicks,...

How often does a dentist have to open a drawer to get to a tool?

How about a surgeon waiting for a tool to be retrieved from a drawer where it is waiting to be found?

Ever look at a jeweler's workbench?  The tools that are used most often are immediately available. No need to open a drawer to find the correct tool. Mark's tools are availabel without looking away from what he is focused on.

All these guys have the tools arranged for quick access.

But when I want to insert a quarter note with SX I need to use two hands to press C-S-4, or I need to click a dropdown to change the note value, or remap some keys, or add such to the mouse to click to display a menu,....

Show of hands::: how many of you find your selves changing screensets more often than changing note values?????

Completely rediculous to have changed these keys. A fit-of-inattention at best.

Charles Hobbs time management research: if you use it every day it is in front of you for quick access.

The way the note duration values were accessible in S8 was more intelligent.

I do not think Krueger could work as fast in SX, even after he learned all the stuff.


I know this is beating a dead DAW. These changes are set in stone.  Some temporary relief will be provided by third parties. But CW has a history of discouraging such addons.

It took 5 versions to get a TrackView button. Never got fully customizable menus/button bars.  And now the cycle was started anew prolly cuz some focus groups of non-sonar users thought color and quick access buttons were confusing. "Oh, it looks so cluttered."

And I have wasted way much time venting my unhappiness. Part of the grieving process, don't ya know.  Dismayed is my current emotional state.

J

Forums like this are invaluable in getting the kids off of the street...

John, this may seem piddly to you, but as a UI designer I spend a lot of time obsessing over seemingly trivial things like how many clicks it takes to perform a given task.

It's because my commercial product is a productivity tool. It's supposed to save people time and businesses money. If an operation can be streamlined to shave even a fraction of a second off, and it's an operation that is performed repeatedly all day long, that can translate into extra hours of productivity every day, week or month. My customers can and do calculate dollar amounts to such gains.

Granted, efficiency may not be as crucial for a hobbyist's DAW, but it's not unimportant either. When I'm working in the PRV on a drum track, I might switch between editing modes 30 times a minute. In 8.5 this is a fast, fluid motion that requires no conscious thought.

Now, if you're saying that I can customize X1 in such a way as to duplicate the same keystrokes and mouseclicks as 8.5, then hooray! I'll happily migrate.

The Moral of the Story here ...

Change CAN be a good thing ..
But change is not automatically better by default.

Not all change is good, but people will rationalize and justify it since they feel they are helpless to do anything about it and must adapt to it.

Am I missing something here? What could be done using the S, D, E tools in 8.5 that can't be done in X1 using the smart tool and/or the tools remapped to those buttons if you don't like the F-key mappings?

Anyone?

Not all change is good, but people will rationalize and justify it since they feel they are helpless to do anything about it and must adapt to it.

There are those like myself that see the advantage in the changes we have with X1. It is not a feeling of hopelessness but rather an embrace of a new vision. 

True not all change is good but by and large most progress is often seen by some as a loss to themselves of something which was often times bad to begin with. Familiarity alone is no reason to cling to the past.