Luteman
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/02 18:45:59
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stevec
Do instrument tracks have Phase and Interleave? I would think that's controlled by the synth itself, not the track settings?
You're absolutely right - they don't. An audio track has them, exactly where they should be. My mistake.
Chris
SONAR Platinum, Windows 7 Pro 64bit, Core2Quad Q6600, 8GB, 2 x SSD, M-Audio Fast Track Ultra, M-Audio Axiom 61, Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedalboard, Stephen Haddock 8-course lute, some guitars, a mandolin and a bass
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/02 19:20:14
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Keni
John
The track that is selected may be the auto zoom
The dark on dark is not unpleasing at least to me.
Thanks for posting that John...
I couldn't see it well in the video and haven't had the chance to try freeze framing...
For me that looks great! I might not even need any mods this time! ;-)
SonarPlus? That remains to be seen... I know there will be no new version of that, but here's hoping I won't need it?
Keni
Keni
Panu may update SonarPlus. I too would like to have it working for X2. It could be more than he wants to do but we shall see.
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 01:32:34
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John
The track that is selected may be the auto zoom
The dark on dark is not unpleasing at least to me.
FWIW: This screenshot is not of a completely finished version and doesn't have a few of the most up to date elements like new "Now" time, etc.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 01:57:00
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John
Keni
John
The track that is selected may be the auto zoom
The dark on dark is not unpleasing at least to me.
Thanks for posting that John...
I couldn't see it well in the video and haven't had the chance to try freeze framing...
For me that looks great! I might not even need any mods this time! ;-)
SonarPlus? That remains to be seen... I know there will be no new version of that, but here's hoping I won't need it?
Keni
Keni
Panu may update SonarPlus. I too would like to have it working for X2.
It could be more than he wants to do but we shall see.
But he's working for Cake now, isn't he? Surely he wouldn't be still doing plus while working for cake.. They wouldn't like that, would they? Edit: Oh ok. I understand now. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=2479788
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 02:09:32
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
John
The track that is selected may be the auto zoom
The dark on dark is not unpleasing at least to me.
FWIW: This screenshot is not of a completely finished version and doesn't have a few of the most up to date elements like new "Now" time, etc.
Brandon you know what you just did? You have totally got us now. You have me salivating with intense anticipation. I'm not sure I can handle it. :)
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 02:26:58
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Ionian
especially for those of us who don't use the track inspector because IMO it has no real purpose besides from taking up screen real estate.
It SAVES real estate in my opinion! Imagine if you had a ProChannel on each and every track... That would be mighty cluttered... It took my a few years before I was sold on the inspector, to be honest. But now that I use it regularly, I freaking love it. Give it a chance. It's just a break in your workflow, but I think it's for the better.
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candlesayshi
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 02:35:04
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I'm pretty unnecessarily overexcited for full screen mode.
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 02:35:19
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Ionian
I'm sure the fancy graphics will help the program sell well to the bedroom ableton guys. That's the bigger market share anyway these days. Cakewalk hasn't given a rats ass about professionals in a long time.
Regards,
Frank
This is plain and simple, and quite demonstrably, untrue.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 02:36:16
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mattplaysguitar
Ionian
especially for those of us who don't use the track inspector because IMO it has no real purpose besides from taking up screen real estate.
It SAVES real estate in my opinion! Imagine if you had a ProChannel on each and every track... That would be mighty cluttered...
It took my a few years before I was sold on the inspector, to be honest. But now that I use it regularly, I freaking love it. Give it a chance. It's just a break in your workflow, but I think it's for the better.
I agree. The Inspector saves screen real-estate, absolutely. It also opens and closes with a single click, making it instantly accessible. Of course I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. 
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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candlesayshi
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 02:44:16
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Mistaking a lot of personal preference for fact there, mon ami....
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 02:49:08
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Ionian
mattplaysguitar
Ionian
especially for those of us who don't use the track inspector because IMO it has no real purpose besides from taking up screen real estate.
It SAVES real estate in my opinion! Imagine if you had a ProChannel on each and every track... That would be mighty cluttered...
It took my a few years before I was sold on the inspector, to be honest. But now that I use it regularly, I freaking love it. Give it a chance. It's just a break in your workflow, but I think it's for the better.
I'm sure the pro channel is good, but there's those of us who would never need the pro channel, period. So the fear of a pro channel on every track is pointless, as is the purpose of moving the phase and stereo interleave buttons.
I understand people who use the pro channel and I'm sure it's great to have the buttons there, but what puzzles me is how cake makes decisions without regards to users by crippling the program for some and NOT giving us the option to put it back the way it was. That's just moronic. Again, I have no problem with cake adding bloat and moving things around as long as they give us the option to put things back and get rid of the bloat. Forcing their users to change their workflow for the worse - well, that's an amazingly bad decision for a company to make it's surprising how often these companies don't get it. I don't change. I stick to old versions until it doesn't work anymore and then I'll just switch to a new DAW. And in the meantime I will continue to talk as many people out of buying Sonar as humanly possible. Cake may feel they have the right to force users to do what Cake wants, but users also have the right to give Cake a huge middle finger as well.
It seems like Cakewalk thinks that it can just take a dump in their user's hats and we'll just say, "Thank you. It fits much better now." Sorry Cake, but that's not how it works.
Regards,
Frank
It seems an extreme reaction to something moving one-click away. It's too bad that you feel necessary to talk people out of something that might very well be perfect for them. I must say, it's a rare user indeed that is so often switching phase and interleave that a single click to access them adds up to cumulatively significant waste of time. With all due respect it feels more a matter of principle than actual workflow. Having said that, I'm not personally opposed to having them available as an option (and wasn't a proponent of removing them per se), but to say that it renders the program unusable by professionals is hyperbolic at best. We always consider customer feedback of course - and with rabid interest.' But I also think it's unfair to characterize SONAR (or Ableton for that matter) as catering to "bedroom" users and/or not being for "professionals". One man's "bloat" is another man's useful feature-set. "Bloat" as it relates to content creation software is so subjective as to practically have no meaning. Anyway, and FWIW, I (and other CW staff) work with professionals regularly who see SONAR X1 as quite positive for their workflow, and indeed, for their deadlines. It's regrettable that some of these changes have had the reverse effect on your own workflow.
post edited by Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk] - 2012/08/03 03:04:36
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 04:22:47
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I tried to make this point before. The new Inspector that CW introduced in X1 is a very elegant solution to a rather bothersome problem.
In the past in order to use MIDI track widgets i.e. the controls the track had to be at a minimum a certain size for the header. Both in height and width. If you wanted to change velocity for example the height had to be high enough to see the widgets . This imposed a burden on the track in obscuring others that had nothing to do with the viewing of the track or the MIDI data within it what so ever but was there simply because controls that should have been in the inspector were on the track header. No other DAW has such a scheme. Many have inspector type channel strip with the controls for the track selected being visible and simply and easily accessed. Sonar didn't always have a track inspector BTW. When CW included it I asked then for improvements and to move the controls over to it.
Because they did so in X1 and did so with an eye to ease of use I am hard core on not just it being there but how it has been improved. Its everything I asked for and more.
To view it as a screen space hog is beyond incredible. When one considers what a track could consume simply to access simple often used controls. Not viewing the track at all. But trying to work on it.
As to the comment about Pro Channel hereby known as PC I am again dumbfounded by the author. Clearly the author has thought about it as much as he did the inspector.
Again nothing is like it. There is no substitute. It makes X1 a unique and extremely powerful DAW that because of it has no peer. The proof is in the using.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 05:11:56
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Fast Biker Boy had a really good way of describing the Inspector - he called it a "Right click on Steroids" which if you use it in this way is absolutely spot on.
1 click to access all the parameters displayed in the Inspector, another click to hide it again.
Undock it - put in the middle of your screen, now just hit 'i' to toggle it's visibility on/off, and it will always reflect the settings of the currently selected track
What's so painful about that?
I just wish we could do the same thing with the browser.
'B' will show it, docked or undocked, but to hide it again it's no good hitting B again, it doesn't toggle on/off, you have to close it manually (or dock it again)
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Rasure
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 05:17:14
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willom
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 05:41:25
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Can anyone tell me if full surround support will be implemented. For VEP surround and waves 360 plugins for example?
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dappa1
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 05:42:23
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I think the lost connection could be a pass at the joke I made in one of skylightrons freds.
I mentioned paying as you go! when you feel inspired fire up Sonar and it says you have run out of credit. You then have to connect to the internet to pay for your monthly subscription. Then contnue with your inspiration.
Also Skylightron mentioned a type of pay as you use also.
So it could be a snap back at that.
Would be interesting if Cake actually thought pay as you play might be a working option.
Make sure you pay your monthly internet bill, is all I can say.
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dappa1
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 05:50:16
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Lets say you stick wuth X1 and they have an update which fixes specific things in X1 plus X2 then X1 would not remain obsolete. Or you had an add on or expansion pack that could slide on to X2 but also slide on to X1.
This great idea of mine would benefit X1 users and X2ers at the same time!
Also it would bring in money to cake seeing that the life of X1 could continue for a duration of time. Making Cake happy and X1 and X2 users happy.
Then the option to upgrade would still be there if your X1 feature list becomes burdensome and the richer feature list of X2 would then make viable sense to you and your business!
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dappa1
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 06:07:01
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Hey Frank! I may not be running the producer version of X1 but I got to tell ya...X1 is not just a stab in the dark. Infact, I would go as close to say that Studio 1 and X1 are closer in design than I thought or imagined.
I have been very creative since X1d had been installed and found that Sonar works splendidly for me.
I only had one crash but that was down to something in my system. Well down to my Anti Virus which I need to re install.
If you have read my posts on X1 you would see that I am less than complimentary. Now I hardly come on the forums cos I'm busy using Sonar to create.
I find that the interface and GUI has kept me in Sonar without feeling fatigued then feeling the need to turn it off and go and do something else.
I actually enjoy working in X1 and the workflow is ok not the best but it is close to it.
I would happily upgrade (if I use you guys as beta testers) especially if X2 works the way that it should but for now even if it came out tomorrow, I would not upgrade never no never. Not until another 6 - 9 months time atleast.
This is my usual practice with technology. I do not feel the need to rush and then find myself deluded and frustated.
I realize that people will be wanting the features and will want to pay their money up in advanced. More power to those guys!
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 06:24:52
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John
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
John
The track that is selected may be the auto zoom
The dark on dark is not unpleasing at least to me.
FWIW: This screenshot is not of a completely finished version and doesn't have a few of the most up to date elements like new "Now" time, etc.
Brandon you know what you just did? You have totally got us now. You have me salivating with intense anticipation. I'm not sure I can handle it. :)
You two have me drooling here, dangnab it!!
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 07:27:55
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Bristol_Jonesey
Fast Biker Boy had a really good way of describing the Inspector - he called it a "Right click on Steroids" which if you use it in this way is absolutely spot on.
1 click to access all the parameters displayed in the Inspector, another click to hide it again.
Undock it - put in the middle of your screen, now just hit 'i' to toggle it's visibility on/off, and it will always reflect the settings of the currently selected track
What's so painful about that?
I just wish we could do the same thing with the browser.
'B' will show it, docked or undocked, but to hide it again it's no good hitting B again, it doesn't toggle on/off, you have to close it manually (or dock it again)
Yep. The inspector at first doesn't seem to make sense much because it's a different way of working to what I was used to with earlier versions. Then I 'got it' and now wonder how I managed without it in previous versions (in this form - it was there but 'crippled' before). It's such a great way of working and much faster than before IMHO. I know what you mean about the Browser when it's floating but Ctrl+F4 will close it. B would be easier though.
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cubic13
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 08:15:44
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Cancelled... Unreadable, due to lack of CR handling. Sorry, but this board is unusable for a Firefox user...
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ProjectM
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 08:37:25
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Dappa1
I think the lost connection could be a pass at the joke I made in one of skylightrons freds.
I mentioned paying as you go! when you feel inspired fire up Sonar and it says you have run out of credit. You then have to connect to the internet to pay for your monthly subscription. Then contnue with your inspiration.
Also Skylightron mentioned a type of pay as you use also.
So it could be a snap back at that.
Would be interesting if Cake actually thought pay as you play might be a working option.
Make sure you pay your monthly internet bill, is all I can say.
He he or it could simply be a simulation of the viewer hacking into Cakewalks "digital Vault" and sneaking a peak at their latest gem. It's like Apple "loosing" their latest iPhone at a bar - without actually loosing the phone and rather intentionally giving everyone a sneak peak
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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Loptec
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 08:38:19
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Mod Bod
synkrotron
Mod Bod
What's the difference b/w a take lane and a layer? Anyone know?
I think they are one and the same and the poster simply used jargon from another product.
"Take Lanes" is a new X2 term...
Thanks. I missed that and saw it this evening. I wonder what it's about now.
Check 0:38 in the "first look"-clip where they show the new "automation lanes" .. They click an icon that says "A" to show the automation lines. Just left of that icon is another one that says "T" .. I'm guessing we'll be able to show our different takes in different lines in a similar way :)
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
 DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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ProjectM
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 08:42:56
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Loptec
Mod Bod
synkrotron
Mod Bod
What's the difference b/w a take lane and a layer? Anyone know?
I think they are one and the same and the poster simply used jargon from another product.
"Take Lanes" is a new X2 term...
Thanks. I missed that and saw it this evening. I wonder what it's about now.
Check 0:38 in the "first look"-clip where they show the new "automation lanes" ..
They click an icon that says "A" to show the automation lines. Just left of that icon is another one that says "T" .. I'm guessing we'll be able to show our different takes in different lines in a similar way :)
+1. They call it call it something simmilar to Layer Tracks in Nuendo and you pretty much get multiple trakcs within a track when you've done loop recording or recorded a new take on top of an old one. It reminds me of track folders in a way. That way it feels like you have everything in tracks like you're used to instead of a million miniature clips in one single track. It's a really nice feature - if it is what I think it is. Dunno if you understand what I just wrote... 
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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Gusfmm
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 08:53:16
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
...... ......
Anyway, and FWIW, I (and other CW staff) work with professionals regularly who see SONAR X1 as quite positive for their workflow, and indeed, for their deadlines. It's regrettable that some of these changes have had the reverse effect on your own workflow.
Brandon- Any feedback you can kindly provide on CW's position, vision and plans on STAFF VIEW??? Please. Much appreciated.
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kelsoz
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 08:58:09
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Here's the big question (unless I missed it in page 1-9) - What's up with SonarPlus and X2?
kelsoz Dell Desktop PC / Win7 HomePrem 64 / Core i5 760 (quad, 2.8GHz) / 8GB / 1 TB / E-MU1616 PCI+Realtek PC Audio / Event 6 Pro Monitors / BIAB 2012.5 / Sonar X3c/64 Bld 216
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 09:27:11
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ProjectM
Loptec
Mod Bod
synkrotron
Mod Bod
What's the difference b/w a take lane and a layer? Anyone know?
I think they are one and the same and the poster simply used jargon from another product.
"Take Lanes" is a new X2 term...
Thanks. I missed that and saw it this evening. I wonder what it's about now.
Check 0:38 in the "first look"-clip where they show the new "automation lanes" ..
They click an icon that says "A" to show the automation lines. Just left of that icon is another one that says "T" .. I'm guessing we'll be able to show our different takes in different lines in a similar way :)
+1. They call it call it something simmilar to Layer Tracks in Nuendo and you pretty much get multiple trakcs within a track when you've done loop recording or recorded a new take on top of an old one. It reminds me of track folders in a way. That way it feels like you have everything in tracks like you're used to instead of a million miniature clips in one single track. It's a really nice feature - if it is what I think it is.
Dunno if you understand what I just wrote...
My biggest hope is that there is some streamlining of the comping process also. I like Reaper's implementation where a left button. mouse drag across a layer highlights the area you want to hear. You can set up a loop and audition comps quickly and only the highlighted areas on each layer will be heard. There could be a better way than that to speed up the process and I could certainly go for that as well.
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fooman
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 10:27:35
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Just to join in late, I also wish the phase and stereo (I use this particular button in every session constantly) was put back in the actual track view by default. I'm used to it now, but I'd be happy to see both return as default widgets on the track itself.
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ProjectM
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 10:51:27
(permalink)
Mod Bod
ProjectM
Loptec
Mod Bod
synkrotron
Mod Bod
What's the difference b/w a take lane and a layer? Anyone know?
I think they are one and the same and the poster simply used jargon from another product.
"Take Lanes" is a new X2 term...
Thanks. I missed that and saw it this evening. I wonder what it's about now.
Check 0:38 in the "first look"-clip where they show the new "automation lanes" ..
They click an icon that says "A" to show the automation lines. Just left of that icon is another one that says "T" .. I'm guessing we'll be able to show our different takes in different lines in a similar way :)
+1. They call it call it something simmilar to Layer Tracks in Nuendo and you pretty much get multiple trakcs within a track when you've done loop recording or recorded a new take on top of an old one. It reminds me of track folders in a way. That way it feels like you have everything in tracks like you're used to instead of a million miniature clips in one single track. It's a really nice feature - if it is what I think it is.
Dunno if you understand what I just wrote...
My biggest hope is that there is some streamlining of the comping process also. I like Reaper's implementation where a left button. mouse drag across a layer highlights the area you want to hear. You can set up a loop and audition comps quickly and only the highlighted areas on each layer will be heard. There could be a better way than that to speed up the process and I could certainly go for that as well.
I definitely agree, that would be great! Like its own Comping Mode or something so it won't mess with how it all currently work. But in DAW's where comping and layers work like what you describe is absolutely a dream to work with. I tend to not do much comping in Sonar for this very reason. I use a whip on people until they play it right instead 
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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pdlstl
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Re:Sonar X2 !!!!!
2012/08/03 11:01:24
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I admit that my feelings regarding X1 were quite similar to Ionian's. I don't record myself. I exclusively record people who come to me and pay me. Upon the release of X1 I was devastated to see (IMHO) that the product I had loved since PA8 was being "dumbed down" and the marketing appeared to be directed to the chap recording in his/her bedroom. I also made the decision that I would not upgrade, no way no how.
However...upon reviewing the sparse information available on X2 I have decided to bite the bullet and take the plunge. I came to the conclusion that I could continue to be hard headed and eventually turn to another product which I had zero experience in or get on the bandwagon, make the upgrade and learn X2. This was after a long conversation with someone whose opinion I highly value.
As I've done with each new version I 've upgraded to over the years, there will be things I love and things I hate. And I will deal with that scenario as I have with many things in my life. Embrace the things I love and shy away from the things I hate.
I purchased the upgrade to X1 yesterday for the free upgrade to X2. I will duplicate all projects currently in production (8 at this point) and work on them in X1 during the learning curve. But my 8.5.3 projects will remained untouched just in case.
I'm over being hard-headed.
Having said that, my ideal solution would be a version of SONAR without many of the features (silly plugins, too many synths etc.) that are quite important to many hobbyists but useless to me. I tend to use high quality outboard gear and and high quality third party plugins. Give me something that I can record/edit audio/MIDI with, make it rock solid and I'll handle the rest.
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