Anderton
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/06/26 15:38:34
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200bpm
If cakewalk releases Sonar every year, and half of that time the user base is screaming about bugs, that can't be good for perception.
However, take into account that bugs run along a continuum from severe to only a handful of people caring. If you look a the list of bug fixes in the various revs, they start off with "Fixed fatal system crash if you stared at master bus the wrong way" but eventually de-evolve to "Resolved problem where some 32-bit plug-ins from XYZ Software didn't scan properly on startup with Toshiba Satellite laptops made during 2011." Most of the compatibility bugs don't surface until Sonar gets out into the world. Also some of the later bug fixes happen when a third party company changes direction, and Sonar has to accommodate. As a result, bugs that most people would scream about are prioritized and front-loaded into the first updates. If the initial updates happen quickly, then the screaming tends to abate pretty rapidly even if bugs continue to be quashed months later.
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200bpm
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/06/26 15:56:33
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LA2A
In total honesty, for the last decade i have found Cakewalk's new release versions of their DAW the most exciting of all DAWs, no joke! Almost each and every year not only have they released a new version, but it has always been a version worth taking notice of; i have followed Cakewalk avidly all along more than any other DAW, all the new plugins and features therein just made me giddy with anticipation and very excited, i cannot say that about any other DAW even though i am absolutely open-minded about competition in the DAW world.
Clearly there is some conscientious diligence and fine acuity from the dudes at Cakewalk, and i know no one asked for my opinion, but if i was to sum-up Sonar, i would call it "The people's DAW"; it shows no bias in its features and interface, and it tries to accommodate 'all users' in the most streamlined fashion. I think Sonar is the only DAW to have ever struck the ideal balance to accommodate 'any' style of producer, and i unreservedly say kudos to Cakewalk for that. I myself am a 'passionate' EDM producer, and i can confidently say that i have never felt alienated by Sonar, and that's sayin something. Any other DAW i have always felt alienated by. I have never used Propellerhead's Reason, although i have auditioned it and it didn't tickle my fancy, FruityLoops seemed ok, but not for me, and Logic with the latest X version is the first time i have looked at it with a keen eye. Other than that, with a vast audition lineage of all other DAWs, I am only torn between Cubase and Sonar, just sayin.
What is weird about SONAR is that its been around a long time, yet some features that you think they would have worked out a LONG time ago were added recently. The "comping" feature is in every other major daw and apparently they just added it, which is why I'm checking it out now. Take management is important to me. Also, it is supposed to be a leader in midi, yet they haven't completed implementing midi loop recording (per my other thread). Its a mixed bag. Makes me wonder what they have been doing these past ten years? The great thing about Sonar is the User Interface. This is the only interface I've seen that works well on both single and multi monitor setups. Having tested it for a bit, it almost has a "hardware" feel in that everything is "contained". Other daws are just plain ugly (Reaper) or seem to demand physical real estate for every new window. I'm willing to give up some functionality if I enjoy using the interface.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/06/26 16:47:02
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200bpm
What is weird about SONAR is that its been around a long time, yet some features that you think they would have worked out a LONG time ago were added recently. The "comping" feature is in every other major daw and apparently they just added it, which is why I'm checking it out now. Actually comping has been in the program forever. IMHO the "comping crown" has been passed back and forth among many companies over the years...at one point Cubase had the best, Cakewalk had it at one point...I think prior to X3, Logic had it. What's happening now is that the "speed comping" option in Sonar X3 is pretty remarkable. Even hardcore comping veterans are impressed. Also, it is supposed to be a leader in midi, yet they haven't completed implementing midi loop recording (per my other thread). Its a mixed bag. Makes me wonder what they have been doing these past ten years? Sonar did not come from a "beats" oriented background, but more from a studio emulation standpoint. So while Sonar embraced MIDI very early in a sophisticated way, the orientation was more toward controllers and virtual instruments. If history is any indication, with MIDI Cakewalk tends to do big updates less frequently rather than more frequent tweaks. Personally, I'm hoping that happens and incorporates more of a beats orientation. The great thing about Sonar is the User Interface. This is the only interface I've seen that works well on both single and multi monitor setups. Having tested it for a bit, it almost has a "hardware" feel in that everything is "contained". Other daws are just plain ugly (Reaper) or seem to demand physical real estate for every new window. I'm willing to give up some functionality if I enjoy using the interface. When you asked what Cakewalk has been doing for the past ten years, re-doing the interface was a big part of that. Frankly it wasn't together with X1; you could see the potential, but it wasn't ready for prime time. X3's UI is much more mature so it's good you're checking it out now.
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cclarry
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/08 15:22:48
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Anderton
I'm hoping that happens and incorporates more of a beats orientation.
Is Cakewalk in negotiations with Dr. Dre for X4? 
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Jonbouy
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/08 17:44:29
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Anderton
When you asked what Cakewalk has been doing for the past ten years, re-doing the interface was a big part of that. Frankly it wasn't together with X1; you could see the potential, but it wasn't ready for prime time.
Oh, just to have heard someone other than the chorus of dissapointed customers say that at the time. That would have been something. The 'damage limitation speak' that was going on at the time became more off-putting than the unready, partially implemented and buggy product did. I can't speak for anyone else but certainly for me that was the case although it does seem to be a common criticism for other one time Sonar devotees I've bumped into outside these forums since then. Moving on though I can see X4 being worth another look as X3 got pretty close for me. Hopefully the company has gained a better culture of honesty in relation to any of the products shortcomings than it did. The quote above at least indicates some improvement even if it is long after the event and I offer this view as I see the company is currently courting user feedback thinking it might be valuable. So when's it due?
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/08 19:47:47
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Jonbouy Oh, just to have heard someone other than the chorus of dissapointed customers say that at the time.It's not quite that simple. For the first month or so I worked with X1 it was fine because I was doing fairly straightforward work with it. There were some issues, but nothing more than I would have expected with a complex software release. The harder I pushed it, though, the more problems I found; but then the updates started coming. By the time it hit X1d, it was in pretty good shape from a functional standpoint, and I'd figured out the interface by then. I think the biggest problem with X1 was that its release was rushed. If CW had held back a few months, it would have been a different story. So when's it due? It seems Cakewalk is now able to hold back for a few months if needed 
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bapu
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/08 20:43:37
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Anderton
Jonbouy
[font="helvetica; font-size: medium; line-height: 1.8"] So when's it due?
It seems Cakewalk is now able to hold back for a few months if needed So, a few months then?
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/08 20:52:01
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bapu
Anderton
Jonbouy
[font="helvetica; font-size: medium; line-height: 1.8"] So when's it due?
It seems Cakewalk is now able to hold back for a few months if needed
So, a few months then? I'm teasing about all the predictions regarding X4 coming in September.
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danardf
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/11 09:56:21
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Hi all.
From my side, i prefer to use an old version which works fine instead to have a new version which includes several bugs. So i agree to wait some month.
I think we are not in waiting Sonar X4, but some big news like for example a real score editor or else.
Sonar can stay under V3, but with a build f or g, whatever.
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lawp
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/11 10:19:43
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☄ Helpfulby mike_mccue 2014/11/11 10:33:55
If history repeats, it will be released when it's nearly ready ;-)
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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danardf
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/11 10:38:19
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To become a beta tester sure. :D ;)
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bapu
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/11 11:05:35
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lawp
If history repeats, it will be released when it's nearly ready ;-)
Why wait that long? 
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Splat 
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/11 12:53:25
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lawp
If history repeats, it will be released when it's nearly ready ;-)
I can't remember the last time ANY desktop software from any company that wasn't released prematurely. Even MS with all it's might does it. The law is 'release often, release early' whether you or I like it or not. If you work on initial releases you are the beta tester bottom line, what is really important is the vendors getting the software rock solid within six months after release and keep up the maintenance releases. From a professional perspective I wait 6 months before I use it. From a home user perspective I dive straight in! Personally what I want is a substantial maintenance release every couple of months until most issues are quashed. Once 95% of the issues disappear then every quarter. (I'm talking backlog as well). The worst that can happen is keep visible bugs hanging around either way.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/12 20:50:18
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danardf
To become a beta tester sure. :D ;)
Too bad they don't allow all users to beta test. Ableton, Propellarheads and Image Line do that.
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Paul P
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/12 20:58:31
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kitekrazy1
Too bad they don't allow all users to beta test.
Just wait till X4 comes out. Then you'll see a flurry of happy beta testing 
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lawp
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 12:09:47
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Paul P
kitekrazy1
Too bad they don't allow all users to beta test.
Just wait till X4 comes out. Then you'll see a flurry of happy beta testing
happy?
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 12:24:36
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Paul P
kitekrazy1
Too bad they don't allow all users to beta test.
Just wait till X4 comes out. Then you'll see a flurry of happy beta testing
I think X3 was a pretty solid release out of the gate. This particular issue is important to us.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 12:25:15
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bapu
Anderton
Jonbouy
[font="helvetica; font-size: medium; line-height: 1.8"] So when's it due?
It seems Cakewalk is now able to hold back for a few months if needed
So, a few months then? Maybe a few months, or years, or decades. It will be a few something.
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bapu
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 12:27:15
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
bapu
Anderton
Jonbouy
[font="helvetica; font-size: medium; line-height: 1.8"] So when's it due?
It seems Cakewalk is now able to hold back for a few months if needed
So, a few months then?
Maybe a few months, or years, or decades. It will be a few something. Haha!!! 
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Paul G
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 14:04:27
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2014/11/13 14:56:14
I don't care what Andrew says, I still think it's coming out in September!
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InstrEd
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 14:17:45
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Ahh........ So a few weeks it is. I'll guess Dec. 4th. 2014 or is it 2015 
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 14:27:35
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InstrEd
Ahh........ So a few weeks it is. I'll guess Dec. 4th. 2014 or is it 2015
The entire office is closing for my birthday on the 5th, so it won't be the 4th.
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bapu
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/13 15:07:06
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
InstrEd
Ahh........ So a few weeks it is. I'll guess Dec. 4th. 2014 or is it 2015
The entire office is closing for my birthday on the 5th, so it won't be the 4th.
or the 3rd or the 2nd or the 1st? November it is then?
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/14 16:15:40
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bapu
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
InstrEd
Ahh........ So a few weeks it is. I'll guess Dec. 4th. 2014 or is it 2015
The entire office is closing for my birthday on the 5th, so it won't be the 4th.
or the 3rd or the 2nd or the 1st?
November it is then?
I'm guessing November 2017, if I had to place an ETA.
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backwoods
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/14 16:19:19
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That's great seth. I'll check back in 3 years. Hope u guys have it running on mac wristwatch by then :)
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pbognar
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/14 17:23:23
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backwoods
That's great seth. I'll check back in 3 years. Hope u guys have it running on mac wristwatch by then :)
"I think X3 was a pretty solid release out of the gate. This particular issue is important to us." "The entire office is closing for my birthday on the 5th, so it won't be the 4th." "(Sonar X4) - I'm guessing November 2017, if I had to place an ETA." Paul is dead. Could these be clues to indicate that it won't be Sonar X4, but rather X3 mega-patch F, or X3.5? And that X4, when does come, will be a major overhaul or re-write?
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vintagevibe
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/14 17:29:15
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Anderton
However, take into account that bugs run along a continuum from severe to only a handful of people caring. If you look a the list of bug fixes in the various revs, they start off with "Fixed fatal system crash if you stared at master bus the wrong way" but eventually de-evolve to "Resolved problem where some 32-bit plug-ins from XYZ Software didn't scan properly on startup with Toshiba Satellite laptops made during 2011." Most of the compatibility bugs don't surface until Sonar gets out into the world. Also some of the later bug fixes happen when a third party company changes direction, and Sonar has to accommodate.
So things like when drum maps are saved the save text field gets populated with the name of another drum map so if you hit save again you overwrite one of your other drum maps ... will never be fixed?
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/14 17:31:06
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk
The entire office is closing for my birthday on the 5th, so it won't be the 4th.
So, your birthday will be coinciding with the pre-release party/ News on the 6th. About time somebody fessed-up.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/14 19:14:18
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pbognar
backwoods
That's great seth. I'll check back in 3 years. Hope u guys have it running on mac wristwatch by then :)
"I think X3 was a pretty solid release out of the gate. This particular issue is important to us."
"The entire office is closing for my birthday on the 5th, so it won't be the 4th."
"(Sonar X4) - I'm guessing November 2017, if I had to place an ETA."
Paul is dead.
Could these be clues to indicate that it won't be Sonar X4, but rather X3 mega-patch F, or X3.5?
And that X4, when does come, will be a major overhaul or re-write?
If you play the demo track in X3 backwards, all will be revealed.
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Paul P
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Re: Sonar X4 release date
2014/11/14 21:25:22
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
pbognar
"I think X3 was a pretty solid release out of the gate. This particular issue is important to us."
"The entire office is closing for my birthday on the 5th, so it won't be the 4th."
"(Sonar X4) - I'm guessing November 2017, if I had to place an ETA."
Paul is dead.
Could these be clues to indicate that it won't be Sonar X4, but rather X3 mega-patch F, or X3.5?
And that X4, when does come, will be a major overhaul or re-write?
If you play the demo track in X3 backwards, all will be revealed.
Gods, for a moment there I thought pbognar was talking about me. Phew...
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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