Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/29 00:00:38
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bladetragic
Anderton
bladetragic
Ironically, going by the train of thought that many seem to have in this thread, Cakewalk should have never bothered to develop and include those tools either b/c there are already third party options available. They should've spent their development time and resources on other things instead.
Now let's get to the heart of why the premise "They should've spent their development time and resources on other things instead" is flawed.
I think you mistook my comment for my own personal thoughts. I was giving an example of how the logic that some users have can be applied to other areas as well. I don't personally share that same train of thought. Thanks for the clarification. You can then assume those comments were for the users who follow the logic you delineated 
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bladetragic
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/29 00:04:59
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Anderton
bladetragic
Anderton
bladetragic
Ironically, going by the train of thought that many seem to have in this thread, Cakewalk should have never bothered to develop and include those tools either b/c there are already third party options available. They should've spent their development time and resources on other things instead.
Now let's get to the heart of why the premise "They should've spent their development time and resources on other things instead" is flawed.
I think you mistook my comment for my own personal thoughts. I was giving an example of how the logic that some users have can be applied to other areas as well. I don't personally share that same train of thought.
Thanks for the clarification. You can then assume those comments were for the users who follow the logic you delineated
Fair enough. It was an insightful post nonetheless, with some good information though. Thanks.
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tenfoot
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/29 01:00:08
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sharke
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Geist yet.
Well they have now - over and over again, so l downloaded the Geist 2 demo to give it a run in the studio this morning. Now I am set to be $261.70 poorer. Damn this eternal thread and then whine it rode in on!  Very cool.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/29 11:32:57
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Hey, remember that instrument I proposed several posts back? Here it is, have fun! It actually does more than the original proposal. like visual pitch transposition.
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trgtdron
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/29 11:34:35
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Sorry guys, didn't mean to sound so flippant before, I use the step sequencer if I need something like that which is so rarely that I didn't think about how some of you use them a lot. If I don't use instruments, I program in MIDI and do it without even thinking about it anymore. Just to me it is as fast as if not faster than running a sequencer or several of them and if I need to I trigger, I trigger everything out of MIDI also, so I guess my opinion in this subject has no value. Again I apologize.
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abacab
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/30 20:30:22
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DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/30 20:52:21
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You can also go to www.di.fm and check out pretty much every EDM style. There are a zillion sub-genres and mutated species...
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trgtdron
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 04:01:23
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 04:33:14
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Anderton
Hey, remember that instrument I proposed several posts back? Here it is, have fun! It actually does more than the original proposal. like visual pitch transposition.
I saw this coming. Not Cyclone specifically, but when you said "what if I proposed," I had a feeling that a tutorial for existing tools was forthcoming. I'm not complaining. It was kind of you to put it together. However, I don't think Cakewalk will be winning anyone over with 15 year old DirectX instruments.
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JoseC.
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 04:40:21
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telecharge
Anderton
Hey, remember that instrument I proposed several posts back? Here it is, have fun! It actually does more than the original proposal. like visual pitch transposition.
I saw this coming. Not Cyclone specifically, but when you said "what if I proposed," I had a feeling that a tutorial for existing tools was forthcoming.
I'm not complaining. It was kind of you to put it together. However, I don't think Cakewalk will be winning anyone over with 15 year old DirectX instruments.
Well, Ableton Live still has the same proprietary instruments since it started, an nobody seems to complain. Some of them are even licensed from other vendors (AAS). They are improving Simpler, that is not new AFAIK, and making its integration with Push a selling point for the software. And let's not start about Reason :)
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bladetragic
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 05:04:22
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JoseC.
telecharge
Anderton
Hey, remember that instrument I proposed several posts back? Here it is, have fun! It actually does more than the original proposal. like visual pitch transposition.
I saw this coming. Not Cyclone specifically, but when you said "what if I proposed," I had a feeling that a tutorial for existing tools was forthcoming.
I'm not complaining. It was kind of you to put it together. However, I don't think Cakewalk will be winning anyone over with 15 year old DirectX instruments.
Well, Ableton Live still has the same proprietary instruments since it started, an nobody seems to complain. Some of them are even licensed from other vendors (AAS). They are improving Simpler, that is not new AFAIK, and making its integration with Push a selling point for the software. And let's not start about Reason :)
In this case the Ableton equivalent to Cyclone would be Drum Racks I guess, and to be completely honest Cyclone is not even in the same ballpark when it comes to functionality, workflow, and flexibility. And the fact that they are actively improving Simpler is part of the point. Cyclone and/or Dropzone are NOT being improved upon or updated with new functionality. Many here, including myself, have said that an updated/improved version of Cyclone or Dropzone would probably suffice rather than Cakewalk developing something totally new.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 10:02:04
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telecharge
Anderton
Hey, remember that instrument I proposed several posts back? Here it is, have fun! It actually does more than the original proposal. like visual pitch transposition.
I saw this coming. Not Cyclone specifically, but when you said "what if I proposed," I had a feeling that a tutorial for existing tools was forthcoming.
I'm not complaining. It was kind of you to put it together. However, I don't think Cakewalk will be winning anyone over with 15 year old DirectX instruments.
The object wasn't to "win people over," it was to show that SONAR has an instrument that does what people want if only they knew about it...now they do. So what if it's DXi? It works. (FWIW I think it's more like 11 years old; I first wrote about it in 2005). There's also info on how to use Cyclone in a Knowledgebase article. Sure, there are more things in the pipeline but people said they'd like an instrument that did what I said it would do, and you have that option right now. Just because something isn't new doesn't mean it's invalid...or '59 Les Pauls would sell for a few hundred dollars . My priority with SONAR is making music, and I can make music just fine with the existing tools. This doesn't mean I don't want some more tools, or that additional tools aren't being developed; just that nothing is stopping me from doing what I want to do. YMMV.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 11:30:52
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I'm pretty sure Cakewalk introduced Cyclone in Sonar 2.0, but I digress, as that's neither here nor there. As far as winning people over, I was speaking to Sonar's appeal to "beats" people like me, as we are now known.  It wasn't directed at you or your excellent tutorials. In my first post in this thread, I linked to one of my favorite posts of yours. Unfortunately, virtual instruments don't appreciate in value or prestige as time goes on -- unlike their classic, real world counterparts.
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 12:28:25
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☄ Helpfulby telecharge 2016/10/31 14:58:40
My ultimate concern with the "right now" mentality is that it comes across as the final answer, i.e., this whole thread will get swept under the rug and forgotten. If the same level of effort was put into upgrades as finding excuses that they were not needed or already exist, it would double the progress.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 13:26:29
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Somebody a few posts back mentioned Cyclone as compared to the Drum Racks in Live .. I honestly don't feel that Cyclone VS Drum Racks is a fair comparison at all .... IMHO, a much more fair comparison would be to compare Cakewalks Velocity to Abelton's Drum Racks  Velocity comes w 18 pads and it behaves pretty much "along the lines " of Drum Racks ... Each Pad can be tuned , adjusted for volume and Pan ... You can load your samples "not only drums" and save your own custom Kits ...  all the best, Kenny
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BobF
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 13:42:46
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2016/10/31 14:04:13
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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ampfixer
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 13:50:55
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2016/10/31 14:05:43
Although this is a very big thread, it seems to me that there are only half a dozen really active participants. At the end of the day it's comes down to another case of attack and defend, just like most other big threads.
I think Cakewalk is going to do what they want, when they want. You can't run a company based on the wishes of a small sample of customers. People that hang out here and post regularly are not the norm, they're the exception.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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bramwell
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 14:12:54
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I think I see a dead horse a few miles down the road...right next to the staff view.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 14:56:59
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ampfixer
Although this is a very big thread, it seems to me that there are only half a dozen really active participants. At the end of the day it's comes down to another case of attack and defend, just like most other big threads.
I think Cakewalk is going to do what they want, when they want. You can't run a company based on the wishes of a small sample of customers. People that hang out here and post regularly are not the norm, they're the exception.
bramwell
I think I see a dead horse a few miles down the road...right next to the staff view.
That's a lot of speculation. This thread had fallen to the 2nd page of the Sonar forum with Bruce's (tenfoot) last post. Guess who bumped it?
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bramwell
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 15:18:25
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Guess who bumped it?
The longer it goes...the deader it gets........
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JoseC.
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 15:26:31
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bladetragic
JoseC.
Well, Ableton Live still has the same proprietary instruments since it started, an nobody seems to complain. Some of them are even licensed from other vendors (AAS). They are improving Simpler, that is not new AFAIK, and making its integration with Push a selling point for the software. And let's not start about Reason :)
In this case the Ableton equivalent to Cyclone would be Drum Racks I guess, and to be completely honest Cyclone is not even in the same ballpark when it comes to functionality, workflow, and flexibility. And the fact that they are actively improving Simpler is part of the point. Cyclone and/or Dropzone are NOT being improved upon or updated with new functionality. Many here, including myself, have said that an updated/improved version of Cyclone or Dropzone would probably suffice rather than Cakewalk developing something totally new.
Actually, I am one those agreeing with you on that. My point is precisely that most DAW's core instruments are already pretty old, so Cyclone being 15 years already (am I really this old?) should not be a reason not to update it, and Dropzone, and integrate them tighter with the program, as Ableton did with Simpler.
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bladetragic
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 16:03:08
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JoseC.
bladetragic
JoseC.
Well, Ableton Live still has the same proprietary instruments since it started, an nobody seems to complain. Some of them are even licensed from other vendors (AAS). They are improving Simpler, that is not new AFAIK, and making its integration with Push a selling point for the software. And let's not start about Reason :)
In this case the Ableton equivalent to Cyclone would be Drum Racks I guess, and to be completely honest Cyclone is not even in the same ballpark when it comes to functionality, workflow, and flexibility. And the fact that they are actively improving Simpler is part of the point. Cyclone and/or Dropzone are NOT being improved upon or updated with new functionality. Many here, including myself, have said that an updated/improved version of Cyclone or Dropzone would probably suffice rather than Cakewalk developing something totally new.
Actually, I am one those agreeing with you on that. My point is precisely that most DAW's core instruments are already pretty old, so Cyclone being 15 years already (am I really this old?) should not be a reason not to update it, and Dropzone, and integrate them tighter with the program, as Ableton did with Simpler.
Ah ok. Gotcha.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 16:11:28
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☄ Helpfulby coolbass 2016/10/31 21:25:43
mettelus
My ultimate concern with the "right now" mentality is that it comes across as the final answer, i.e., this whole thread will get swept under the rug and forgotten. If the same level of effort was put into upgrades as finding excuses that they were not needed or already exist, it would double the progress.
No one in this thread, whether they find the existing situation acceptable or not, is involved with creating upgrades. The existence of this thread will neither propel nor inhibit progress. Meanwhile, I've provided an alternative for those who weren't aware that Cyclone, despite its age, provides much if not most of what people say they want. What else is there to say?
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ampfixer
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 16:15:02
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telecharge
ampfixer
Although this is a very big thread, it seems to me that there are only half a dozen really active participants. At the end of the day it's comes down to another case of attack and defend, just like most other big threads.
I think Cakewalk is going to do what they want, when they want. You can't run a company based on the wishes of a small sample of customers. People that hang out here and post regularly are not the norm, they're the exception.
bramwell
I think I see a dead horse a few miles down the road...right next to the staff view.
That's a lot of speculation. This thread had fallen to the 2nd page of the Sonar forum with Bruce's (tenfoot) last post.
Guess who bumped it?
That would be abacab about 19 hours ago. 
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 16:35:25
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ampfixer
Although this is a very big thread, it seems to me that there are only half a dozen really active participants. At the end of the day it's comes down to another case of attack and defend, just like most other big threads.
I think it's more about some people making a case for what they want, and other people making a case for what they want, which are features that don't relate to what the first group wants. In other words it's about competing for resources...like most wars . This is why I try to provide solutions that can take care of the first group without taking anything away from the second group. But then the first group gets upset because I'm not providing the answer they want ("Here's a brand new instrument that does exactly what you want"), but an answer that I think is actually relevant ("Here's how to use the existing tools to do most, if not all, of what you want.") So the first group sees me as a Cakewalk apologist instead of a creative user who knows the program's nooks and crannies, and the second group doesn't care about a solution anyway. I might feel more passionate about a new instrument if I found SONAR's tools overly limiting for EDM. Given a choice, though, I'd rather see resources put into developing the Matrix View than updating Cyclone. Meanwhile, this thread has presented multiple alternatives, from a free sampler, to my (also free) tip of the week, to various other Cakewalk instruments, to Geist.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 17:46:14
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Hello Craig , I mean this with Mucho Grande respect and admiration towards you.... When you want to be, you can certainly be just as slippery as the game winning quarter back in The Superbowl ... Kenny
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 18:09:23
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☄ Helpfulby telecharge 2016/10/31 18:13:11
I see all sides, and I see merit in all of it. The main issue is there is rarely "right" or "wrong" in the sense of a binary 1 and 0. This is an analog world with nuances and shades of gray.
Ultimately decisions often must be based on what's "least wrong" or "most right," not what's ideal. As far as I can tell, "ideal" does not exist.
I think people often forget that anything that is added to SONAR means something else will not be added concurrently. It's just that simple. So it's easy to understand why some people would get upset if what's being asked for is already available through other means, just as it's easy to understand why some people feel so strongly about something that they think it is of vital importance.
Both are wrong, both are right but that's not what interests me. What interests me is solutions that can be done today, because deadlines for projects don't happen in the abstract...they have dates attached to them.
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abacab
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/31 19:42:18
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☄ Helpfulby ampfixer 2016/10/31 21:49:20
After watching this debate for three weeks, I think both sides have made good points. But as to my personal preference, I think that I will be satisfied to see the Sonar development focus on the genre neutral core platform. I see Sonar as a great "host", where you can add whatever plugins that you need to do your musical genre thing.
I am old enough to remember the Beatles arrival in America and their appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show. My parents reaction was "Oh my, this is the end of Western Civilization!". My Dad was a professional musician in the "big band" tradition. The world was changing then, and it still is. I was determined then to become open minded and respect all musical forms.
I just want to see music technology enable all forms of musical creativity. I think we have a good core to work with. It will be interesting to see what the bakers come up with ...
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2017/08/11 21:37:57
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One of the frustrations I have had with this forum is that there are few who really get it when it comes to how workflow with samples is a bigger chore than it had to be. Hate to compare competing products, but i was able to do what i have always wanted to do within minutes of using studio one. The sampler is no competition to kontakt or other third party solutions, but it is well integrated. I can take a sample, chop it and select "send to sample one " and it is mapped instantly. Using Rapture as a sampler is clunky af. In Sonar I use third party solutions but not nearly as effecient as other programs. It is easy to dismiss us by saying " just use another program", but we obviously love sonar or we wouldn't ask. I'm not mad. I realise having it all is a challenge. I just think cakewalk could accommodate such a request and it would be useful for other tasks.
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interpolated
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2017/08/11 21:42:20
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Nothing beats NI Kontakt my eyes. There's a few others out there though. Kontakt seems to good support though.
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