jimfogle
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/22 17:05:27
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coolbass
I think, if you need a sampler, buy a 3rd party one or use a free one.
Cakewalk should use the resources to make the core audio, midi and notation side stronger.
Providing a sampler is not its core business.
And providing notation is its core business? Really?
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coolbass
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/22 19:15:17
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jimfogle
coolbass
I think, if you need a sampler, buy a 3rd party one or use a free one.
Cakewalk should use the resources to make the core audio, midi and notation side stronger.
Providing a sampler is not its core business.
And providing notation is its core business? Really?
Yes. At least for also being able to edit midi-notes well in a notation-view. I would not expect to make sheet music for my musicians with Sonar. I would use Sibelius, Finale or whatever for that.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/22 22:56:24
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This thread now has more views than the Code of Conduct sticky from December 2015 at the top of all the Cakewalk Forums. The first paragraph: "Welcome to the Cakewalk Forums! These forums have a reputation of providing a friendly environment to get help with Cakewalk products, discuss ideas, and connect with other members. Much of this is because our members treat each other with respect and courtesy, and we are dedicated to continuing this tradition." 
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guckzilla
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 09:13:52
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I'm with OP, something like EXS24, NN-XT, Simpler/Sampler would be nice to have.
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AT
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 12:54:49
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/10/23 17:52:44
I have no big hopes for a new Cake sampler simply because they missed the buss years ago. When Dimension and then Dim Pro came out just about everyone who bought it hoped for some kind of graphical SFZ editor to use with SFZ samples (SFZ being incredibly powerful). But text-editing a sample/sampler editor reminded me of pulling FM teeth with line coding way back in the last century.
Cake could have put together a simple stereo editor and graphical SFZ when SFZ had a chance to be a new standard for sample editing. Various synths other than Cake's including SFZ edited files - including Alchemy. Despite many individuals doing good work on SFZ, it never reached a sustained level to become an easy way to control samples. Which is why I don't think Cake is willing to put in the resources to make it so. That horse has more or less left the barn.
Beatscape was going to be Cake's ubersynth. It had an easy to understand interface and a great collection of samples. And failed spectacularly. There were problems with reliability and sync, but most people couldn't get it to play easily, which is the key to mass success. No body, in the heat of the creative moment, wants to stop to line-edit a sample (or most of us, anyway). It seemed to morph into the Matrix.
So, how bout a fly out panel for each matrix cell for editing the included sample/loop? Not just loop on/off etc., but the sample itself, length and beat matching? And SFZ EQ etc. for each cell sample so you can tweak it that way (visually, of course). And further Scratchpad like control over each pad. There are plenty of ways to make the matrix an alternative to Live!, it is all there.
And I'm sure Cake would love to accommodate all our wishes, but they have limited resources and it is all a crap shoot. Like Beatscape, you can sink a lot of time into a product and not produce a winner. Even if it ain't a dog, it just might not match the music zeitgeist and you have a great product that few want. That is why I have no great hope for a new, integrated sampler from Cake. They've been there and done that and Beatscape burned Cake's fingers. I imagine a much improved scoring app would come before a sampler - that is something that haven't done and many users ask for.
One needs to remember the core users and Cake seems, to me anyway, to be aimed primarily at guitarists who have a PC at home and want to record. Not beat artists. Not classically trained notation musicians. Not to say they don't cater to such folk, but the emphasis has always been on the, if not singer songwriter, then the pop/rock idiom. Look at where they have put their money and/or development - amp sims and soft drum machines and mixing tools.
I would love a sampler, even a simple built-in one. I'd love a stereo editor, even a simple built-in one. I'd love a better Matrix designed more for live performance than as an arrangement tool. But I still love what you can do with SONAR these days and the actual tools it does have. As mentioned above, it sure beats razor blades and tape and, even if it doesn't do everything I want how I want it to work, I can do most everything I need, even if I don't play guitar. ;-)
@
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http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 13:11:40
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AT
One needs to remember the core users and Cake seems, to me anyway, to be aimed primarily at guitarists who have a PC at home and want to record. Not beat artists. Not classically trained notation musicians.
Great post. I also get that impression -- more so since René left, and Gibson took over.
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BobF
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 13:32:18
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/10/23 17:58:50
Resource-wise, it's a catch 22. Aside from from initial development, the more features and complexity that evolve over time also add to every other ongoing cost associated with it. Also, as mentioned above, Cake could bake an awesome sampler that would end up less favored because xyz has the bees-knees sampler. They could easily end up with an integrated sampler that maybe 5% of the user base uses, but they still have 100% of the ongoing costs to keep it going. There is something to be said for a lean, mean, efficient core that has dev focus on integration with 3rd party tools instead of trying to compete with them. If SONAR were to become this lean machine with SOLID performance, audio & MIDI tracking & editing with seamless integration with a wide variety of 3rd party hardware and software tools, I doubt many would complain - once the dust settled  Imagine seamless two-way integration with your favorite full-feature notation package. And samplers, synths, controllers, etc. A literal "Best of Breed" production system with that solid SONAR core ... I'm just sayin'
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 15:54:51
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☄ Helpfulby jshep0102 2016/10/23 15:56:08
I would personally not be in favor of Cakewalk diverting precious developer and development resources in building a full-blown sampler. Kontakt seems to me to be the king daddy one out there, and there are bazillions of commercial and freeware/shareware libraries available - how would Cakewalk possibly be able to compete with all of that.
In addition, there is the EastWest Play - and massive sample content available through that - I have the full compliment of the Composer Cloud libraries downloaded - and that is more than a Terabyte there alone - with my Kontakt libraries, there is an additional 2+ Terabytes there.
I would much rather that Cakewalk resources be used to fix and enhance Sonar itself.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 16:08:28
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☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 2016/10/24 07:15:14
But the OP is not suggesting a full-blown sampler ala Kontakt and EastWest. Why is that not sinking in?
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BobF
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 16:12:58
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Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 19:04:24
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telecharge
AT
One needs to remember the core users and Cake seems, to me anyway, to be aimed primarily at guitarists who have a PC at home and want to record. Not beat artists. Not classically trained notation musicians.
Great post. I also get that impression -- more so since René left, and Gibson took over.
Even before Gibson got involved, about 70% of Cakewalk users were guitar players. But I suspect you'd find a similar stat for many DAWs, because there are a lot of guitar players. Compare the size of Guitar Player magazine and Keyboard magazine...and note that when MOTU wanted to expand their base, they added a ton of guitar-oriented stuff. And although my Quadrafuzz (which is in Cubase) has many uses, it was always aimed primarily at guitarists. Then there's Eleven, and Avid doing Eleven Rack. Even Ableton Live has been trying to get more guitar players. It's the big demographic. According to the BBC, there are about 50 million guitar players in the world. There are between 16-20 million in the United States alone.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 19:25:42
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Anderton
It's the big demographic. According to the BBC, there are about 50 million guitar players in the world. There are between 16-20 million in the United States alone.
That's an impressive statistic. Thanks for sharing. I identified more with the "beat artists" part of the paragraph. If you don't want to touch the subject of René with a 10 foot pole, I completely understand. For me, I have always thought of Cakewalk as a synth-centric company because of Z3TA+, Rapture, and D-Pro. Those are some of my favorite instruments, so I may be biased.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 22:03:16
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☄ Helpfulby telecharge 2016/10/23 22:28:31
telecharge
I identified more with the "beat artists" part of the paragraph. If you don't want to touch the subject of René with a 10 foot pole, I completely understand. I never met him, and he was long gone by the time Gibson bought the company. So all I know is his work, in which case I consider him an effing genius (albeit an eccentric one). I think it's ironic that Cakewalk was ahead of the curve on the beat thing, but got blowback. Now that EDM has reached the mainstream (it sure took long enough, eh?) I'd like to see Cakewalk return to fleshing out that section of the program more. Not sure if you knew this but I started doing live EDM sets back in the 90s. I still do sometimes, using Ableton if it's for performance and Traktor if it's more for DJing. So I'm into it. I got my start by jamming on guitar with DJs in Miami and Cologne, and one thing led to another...mostly did my thing over in Germany, so I tend more toward the techno/trance end of the spectrum. For me, I have always thought of Cakewalk as a synth-centric company because of Z3TA+, Rapture, and D-Pro. Those are some of my favorite instruments, so I may be biased. If I could have only one synth, it would be Rapture Pro so I hear ya. It's all over just about everything I do. I'm finding out things to do with the Vector mixer that may be illegal in some states, so I better be careful.
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AT
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 22:45:59
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Do your magic, chief officer. I hadn't heard that 70% stat, but it sounds about right. And nothing wrong with going after the largest piece of pie.
But yes, I'm ready for more synth/beat/looping/padded stuff. I love pads with touch screens, and Y/X pads. So, upgrade the Matrix and give us Rapture + and you won't hear any more wants from me, at least until after I get bored with the new toys ;-) and try to learn guitar.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 22:51:32
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@Anderton I didn't know when you started doing sets, but I do recall you talking about using Live and the possibility of putting together some EDM information/tutorials for Sonar users.
+1 @AT
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/23 23:44:19
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AT
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/24 09:15:32
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☄ Helpfulby telecharge 2016/10/24 09:27:42
Tele, you should have been around for P5. Everyone seemed to be doing EDM and it brought in (or exposed) a lot of "electronic" musicians in the Cake family. We had a our own forum, even our own internet radio, etc. etc. As the old song goes, "those were the days my friend." It was a great community and many migrated to SONAR (or returned).
Not to side track a rather long thread, but the great thing about P5 was the simplicity and obviousness of the program. You couldn't do everything, but for most cooking you don't really need your Indian spice collection or your whole French sauce pan collection. Something I hope Cake will realize when they do redo the Matrix, or a sampler.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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forkol
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/24 14:35:50
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Anderton
I think it's ironic that Cakewalk was ahead of the curve on the beat thing, but got blowback. Now that EDM has reached the mainstream (it sure took long enough, eh?)
You know, I've seen this sentiment before. I see if often used to knock EDM as the 'Johnny come lately' de jour of music. IMHO, it was the 'E' part of EDM that had to come up to speed. We have always had the 'D' part - Disco, R&B, Funk, Rock, Jazz. But had to get to a point where the 'electronic' part was good, cheap and easy enough to use. We've had synths for at least 60+ years, but I think the 80's brought forth the TB-303 and DX7, small, relatively in-expensive synths that were much easier to use. And if you listen to most 80's music, you will hear those synths and drum machines, quite a bit. That's really early EDM. So, 'EDM' was already pretty mainstream even back in the 80's, we just didn't call it that then. I think we only reached that point maybe within the last 7 to 10 years where it's gotten even cheaper, easier, and with computers, has expanded the creativity so much, and so now we are seeing the 2nd wave of EDM. Now, pretty much all dancey pop music is EDM. It's so much so, it's rare now to even have a hit with say, a vocalist and a guitar. Even the vocal part is probably Autotuned now.
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candlesayshi
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/24 14:39:37
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Others have mentioned it, but I agree that DropZone covers a pretty good bit of ground as a simplistic sampler. Though I certainly wouldn't shy away from seeing it have some improvements.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/24 15:28:39
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 03:13:56
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There actually WAS life BEFORE Disco Duck reared its ugly beak.....
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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bladetragic
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 07:37:53
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telecharge
But the OP is not suggesting a full-blown sampler ala Kontakt and EastWest. Why is that not sinking in?
Exactly. My examples were EXS24, Simpler/Sampler, SampleOne, etc. Those are nowhere near as deep as Kontakt. Kontakt to me, is when you really want to go deep with scripting, creating detailed sample libraries, etc. Or if someone wants to take advantage of the numerous libraries that are available for it. Although it can be used as a basic sampler, it's almost overkill and a bit convoluted for when you want to do more basic sampling tasks.
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bladetragic
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 07:46:27
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AT
One needs to remember the core users and Cake seems, to me anyway, to be aimed primarily at guitarists who have a PC at home and want to record. Not beat artists. Not classically trained notation musicians. Not to say they don't cater to such folk, but the emphasis has always been on the, if not singer songwriter, then the pop/rock idiom. Look at where they have put their money and/or development - amp sims and soft drum machines and mixing tools.
This seems to be a popular sentiment, and it may be accurate. But I would then ask, if that is the case, why have new programs come around that cater more to "beat artists" that have surpassed Sonar in popularity and user base? To me, that says that maybe you are focusing on the wrong audience and you may want to try to expand. *shrugs*
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 08:23:41
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look at Z3ta, and Z3ta 2 or Rapture and Rapture Pro. these synths were just given upgrades within the past year or 2. while they added what..TH3 ? Staff view ? well..I got nothing there.  There are many thing I would like to see in Sonar, but I take the upgrades with a grain of salt or a teaspoon of sugar. that's the way I look at it. I either use the software to create and work, or I use something else that suits my needs. I've always worked like that, im sure you have too. I do a verity of different jandra's. I wouldn't say the focus of Sonar is geared towards a certain group of writers, producers.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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AT
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 08:48:03
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Blade,
one of the good things about Cake is they try to be all things to all musicians. Some of the bad things are also because of this - some times they come up with a feature or tool that kinda works but not fully (see the lists of problem children above).
They do try to expand their base, see P5, Matrix, Beatscape, cyclone etc. But they can't afford to ignore their base, as with most DAWs, of guitarists/rockers/folkers who record and mix acoustic instruments at home. As Anderton shows above, this is not a plurality, but a super majority of users and potential users. Which is one reason they don't fool around with the crapshoot of programming effective software for those apps that make acoustic recording available at home where users don't have a drum room or isolated guitar booths. See Guitar Rig, the various drum synths, etc. They buy/lease working versions of those programs while synths and "beat" functions get done in-house. If Matrix needs work, they can do that tomorrow and they aren't going to piss off a lot of users and lose them like they would if an Amp sim makes your guitar sound like flatulence so that Cake has to pay the programmers overtime to fix what they should have writ right the first time. The Matrix, no, we'll put Joe on it next cycle. If they lose a few customers, they are still a head. 70% or more don't care. You screw up the drums, every one cares.
As far as other programs - SONAR splits the market with several of the other "big" DAWs. Of the beat DAWs, Live! garners the serious crowd but FL Studio is the best ... you can't say seller since they have so many pirated copies... but at one point was the most used DAW of all. If SONAR were free it would probably have more users, too. If I was Cake I'd rather have 1/5 of 70% of the market plus 10% of the other 30% rather than the other way around. And Cake is probably the best known of the PC DAWs since it remains a PC-only DAW.
Cakewalk is a business and makes decisions based upon their own sustainability. Keep the base happy and build on that.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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bladetragic
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 09:10:38
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AT
Blade,
one of the good things about Cake is they try to be all things to all musicians. Some of the bad things are also because of this - some times they come up with a feature or tool that kinda works but not fully (see the lists of problem children above).
They do try to expand their base, see P5, Matrix, Beatscape, cyclone etc. But they can't afford to ignore their base, as with most DAWs, of guitarists/rockers/folkers who record and mix acoustic instruments at home. As Anderton shows above, this is not a plurality, but a super majority of users and potential users. Which is one reason they don't fool around with the crapshoot of programming effective software for those apps that make acoustic recording available at home where users don't have a drum room or isolated guitar booths. See Guitar Rig, the various drum synths, etc. They buy/lease working versions of those programs while synths and "beat" functions get done in-house. If Matrix needs work, they can do that tomorrow and they aren't going to piss off a lot of users and lose them like they would if an Amp sim makes your guitar sound like flatulence so that Cake has to pay the programmers overtime to fix what they should have writ right the first time. The Matrix, no, we'll put Joe on it next cycle. If they lose a few customers, they are still a head. 70% or more don't care. You screw up the drums, every one cares.
As far as other programs - SONAR splits the market with several of the other "big" DAWs. Of the beat DAWs, Live! garners the serious crowd but FL Studio is the best ... you can't say seller since they have so many pirated copies... but at one point was the most used DAW of all. If SONAR were free it would probably have more users, too. If I was Cake I'd rather have 1/5 of 70% of the market plus 10% of the other 30% rather than the other way around. And Cake is probably the best known of the PC DAWs since it remains a PC-only DAW.
Cakewalk is a business and makes decisions based upon their own sustainability. Keep the base happy and build on that.
A quick Google search will show you that pretty much all the major DAWs are pirated (including Sonar) so that's null and void. FL Studio is PC only as well, so you kind of contradicted your own point (I'm assuming maybe you didn't know it was PC only). And if you say FL "was the most used DAW of all", what does that tell you? Especially when you consider it's audio recording capabilities were relatively non-existent until fairly recently. As far as ignoring their base, how much more can they really develop for guitarists and people who record acoustic instruments? Those people are essentially using Sonar as a tape recorder and mixer. That's about as basic as a DAW can get. There is a ton of compressors, eqs, reverbs, melodyne, audiosnap, TH3, Guitar Rig 4 (from older versions, if you have them), AD2, etc. I would say that group is covered extremely well at this point.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 09:39:04
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bladetragic
telecharge
But the OP is not suggesting a full-blown sampler ala Kontakt and EastWest. Why is that not sinking in?
Exactly.
My examples were EXS24, Simpler/Sampler, SampleOne, etc. Those are nowhere near as deep as Kontakt. Kontakt to me, is when you really want to go deep with scripting, creating detailed sample libraries, etc. Or if someone wants to take advantage of the numerous libraries that are available for it. Although it can be used as a basic sampler, it's almost overkill and a bit convoluted for when you want to do more basic sampling tasks.
I get the impression that you use both a PC and a Mac ....if that is not the case ..please disregard this post .... I love the ESX 24 and I treat my Mac's as if I was running a hardware synth when I want to incorporate my ESX 24 sounds into my SONAR projects VIA a Midi cable + an Apoge sound card into my PC's soundcard . BTW , that's not what I'm here to talk about  I have MainStage 2 and Logic 9 ...only because I'm running older version of OSX ...I'm locked out of doing what I'm gonna say to you as a result of it ....  If you have MainStage 3 you have the ability to not only take your hardware samplers and map them out for the ESX 24 as new ESX 24 instruments within MainStage 3 to be later used in Logic , you also have the ability to stay within the box and take any internal instrument such as Kontakt ( for example ) and map those instruments as individual sample instruments for the ESX 24 ... Also, you can even take a fully loaded instance of Kontakt or any instrument along those lines and map out VIA Autosampler in M S 3 a self contained sample set of a combined collection of instruments that would bring a computer to it's knees ....this is all for loading your sounds in the ESX 24 .... The main rub is all this has to be done in MainStage 3 because Logic X does not have Autosampler included ... Using the Autosampler VAI MainStage seems to be the only way this type of conversion can be done at this point in time until Logic gets Autosampler ..... IMHO this is very small price to pay since once you create an ESX 24 instrument ...you can use it in Logic There is a brand new tutorial that I'm basing this info on ....I have no affiliation other than a subscription .... I have seen this whole tutorial in it's entirety and to be honest with you ...MY Mind is Blown .... https://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/logic-pro-fasttrack-304-auto-sampling-with-mainstage all the best, Kenny
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bladetragic
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 09:44:13
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kennywtelejazz
bladetragic
telecharge
But the OP is not suggesting a full-blown sampler ala Kontakt and EastWest. Why is that not sinking in?
Exactly.
My examples were EXS24, Simpler/Sampler, SampleOne, etc. Those are nowhere near as deep as Kontakt. Kontakt to me, is when you really want to go deep with scripting, creating detailed sample libraries, etc. Or if someone wants to take advantage of the numerous libraries that are available for it. Although it can be used as a basic sampler, it's almost overkill and a bit convoluted for when you want to do more basic sampling tasks.
I get the impression that you use both a PC and a Mac ....if that is not the case ..please disregard this post ....
I love the ESX 24 and I treat my Mac's as if I was running a hardware synth when I want to incorporate my ESX 24 sounds into my SONAR projects VIA a Midi cable + an Apoge sound card into my PC's soundcard .
BTW , that's not what I'm here to talk about
I have MainStage 2 and Logic 9 ...only because I'm running older version of OSX ...I'm locked out of doing what I'm gonna say to you as a result of it ....
If you have MainStage 3 you have the ability to not only take your hardware samplers and map them out for the ESX 24 as new ESX 24 instruments within MainStage 3 to be later used in Logic , you also have the ability to stay within the box and take any internal instrument such as Kontakt ( for example ) and map those instruments as individual sample instruments for the ESX 24 ...
Also, you can even take a fully loaded instance of Kontakt or any instrument along those lines and map out VIA Autosampler in M S 3 a self contained sample set of a combined collection of instruments that would bring a computer to it's knees ....this is all for loading your sounds in the ESX 24 ....
The main rub is all this has to be done in MainStage 3 because Logic X does not have Autosampler included ...
Using the Autosampler VAI MainStage seems to be the only way this type of conversion can be done at this point in time until Logic gets Autosampler .....
IMHO this is very small price to pay since once you create an ESX 24 instrument ...you can use it in Logic
There is a brand new tutorial that I'm basing this info on ....I have no affiliation other than a subscription ....
I have seen this whole tutorial in it's entirety and to be honest with you ...MY Mind is Blown ....
https://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/logic-pro-fasttrack-304-auto-sampling-with-mainstage
all the best,
Kenny
No, I'm PC only (mainly b/c of my use of Sonar), but I know a lot of Logic users and am aware of the EXS24 and it's functionality.
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tenfoot
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 09:48:10
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bladetragic
As far as ignoring their base, how much more can they really develop for guitarists and people who record acoustic instruments? Those people are essentially using Sonar as a tape recorder and mixer. That's about as basic as a DAW can get.
Well let's see. Cakewalk introduced Drum Replacer, Vocal Sync, and ARA integration of Melodyne, all in fairly recent history. All of these are geared towards (though certainly not exclusive to) more traditional DAW users, but you would hardly call them "as basic as a DAW can get". It seems the bakers are not quite out of ideas for their core crowd just yet, and their usefulness goes far beyond "a tape recorder and mixer".
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar really needs a sampler.
2016/10/25 09:59:51
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I think Cake is correct to be concentrating on tightening down the loose ends and improving the core program before addressing other market segments (and it's not just EDM; audio for video could use a little love, too). More importantly, anyone who wants to make beats in SONAR already has plenty of tools: The step sequencer, Matrix view, the ability to create and edit loops, drum replacer, synchronizable effects, and virtual instruments with plenty of EDM-friendly sounds. (And, you'll see news shortly about a new EDM expansion pack for Z3TA+ 2 by Nico Herz that I've had the pleasure to evaluate. It's really good.)
Just because SONAR doesn't have a particular type of sampler doesn't mean you can't do EDM. Ilan Bluestone and scores of others (check out the Cakewalk blog) are proof of that. As this thread has shown, if all you need is a sampler to complete the picture, there are plenty of options.
If Cakewalk stopped work on doing the basic, essential enhancements they're doing now and brought out a simple sampler instead, imagine the hue and cry of "WTF do I want a sampler for when there are already plenty of options available, but ripple editing doesn't work?!??!" AFAIC concerned ripple editing is a far more important feature when creating EDM (or any type of music) than having a sampler that duplicates what's already available elsewhere. I just don't buy the concept of "you can't do EDM in SONAR." If that's true, don't tell the people who do...
I certainly agree that SONAR is not tailored specifically for EDM, but as I've said before, SONAR is a set of tools that are flexible enough to accommodate a wide variety of musical styles and tasks. THambrecht uses it to do digitize thousands of archival files because it works better than anything else. Subtlearts uses it to do Audiobooks, which can involve thousands of edits over projects that last for hours...because SONAR does what he needs. Jerry Gerber uses it to create orchestral works, primarily using MIDI. I use it to create soundtracks for commercial videos, do music from rock to EDM, edit narration, and develop sample libraries with great efficiency than any other program allows.
I really can't think of any DAW that's more versatile than SONAR, but because it doesn't push the creative process in a particular direction, that means the results are more dependent on the user's flexibility and command of the program's toolset...consider how many of the "Friday's Tip of the Week" came out of my working with EDM and particularly remixing, which required developing techniques in SONAR that relate specifically to that kind of work.
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