Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/01 14:07:02
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Hey Zevo, You're fine, we're still talking about the same subject. I'll be the one apologizing to ya since I'll be shifting the subject a little. I think that, instead of waiting until 64 bit comes to us, we are the ones who need to come to it first. What I mean is that we usually go, "I'll wait until [such and such event] before I go full 64 bit", without realizing that we can make a difference right now. Waiting for things to happen will only drag 64 bit development because not enough people are using it. One of the plugin developers I wrote to was actually surprised that I was using a 64 bit system. That's obviously not a good sign. We want 64 bit to be the new 32 bit but, unless WE do something about it, 64 bit will not happen anytime soon. I understand that most people won't be able to do a full 64 bit transition due to their own particular reasons. But even having a dual-boot system with a 64 bit partition is enough to help get there. It's now or later (5 years?).
post edited by Jose7822 - 2008/12/01 14:10:41
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Elffin
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/01 14:27:25
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off topic for a second.... Adobe has released CS4 for 64bit .. and they have also released an alpha version of 64bit flash for linux... hoepfully a vista 64 bit version isn't far away Also ... here's an option for 64bit people who use East west Symphonic choirs... very good tutorial by Jloving who's also a member here. Symphonic Choirs 64bit tutorial by Jloving I wonder if Cakewalk will address the midi out for 32bit vsts used with bitbridge in an update or for Sonar 9.. I could then use the wordbuilder vst within sonar then
post edited by Edath - 2008/12/01 14:29:06
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elle
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/01 15:53:34
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ORIGINAL: Jose7822
I think that, instead of waiting until 64 bit comes to us, we are the ones who need to come to it first...
...We want 64 bit to be the new 32 bit but, unless WE do something about it, 64 bit will not happen anytime soon.
You know Jose, recently I've came to a conclusion that software users can be divided into two non-intercepting groups: - those who complain and blame developers about bugs etc - those who finds solutions and other workarounds for the issues you're definitely in the latter group and I'm really glad there're people like you. So wished to say my thanks for this thread :) as to VST3 and 64-bit.. vst 2 can be 64 bit pretty easily - Rapture, iZotope RX - all of them are VST2 and work in Sonar x64 stable enough. What I think (or should I better say guess) about VST3 is that probably this format allows to store both 32-bit and 64-bit code in a single dll (or something like that). So that users/vst host don't have to worry about using the wrong version. I know this can be solved with different approahces (e.g. Sonar can choose the right plug-in dll automatically), but VST3 just probably put a standard/law on it. and as for another offtopic: I heard Sony has released Vegas 8 update for Vista x64: Sony Vegas 8.1. So this is just another 64-bit vsthost already on the market. And this is good. It's quite a pity Oxford plugs are no longer a part of Sony though... I really like how Sonnox Limiter/Inflator sweetens the modern electronic music...
post edited by elle - 2008/12/01 16:00:55
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/01 18:40:02
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Hey Elle,
Thanks so much for your uplifting words. I wished more people would join the cause though. The more people make the transition now, the sooner will get there. But we need to be willing to make some sacrifices so that we can sort out the bugs and also send a message to developers that 64 bit is here, now. I'm really glad some of the developers are making the transition, so that's good.
To Everyone:
I encourage you to set up a dual-boot system if it's withing your reach. That way you'll be able to work as before but also have the ability to test in a 64 bit environment and report any found bugs to Cakewalk. This is the only way we'll be able to shift priorities into 64 bit development of both our favorite DAW (Sonar in our case) and 3rd party plugins. Thanks for your support to thse who have contributed to this thread.
Take care!
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 02:18:59
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Hey Alex, I'm glad you guys are here. Just wanna know if there are any plans on porting Sonar's remaining plugs to 64 bit by Sonar 9. If not, could you suggest this to the Cakewalk developers? I would love to be able to work on a full 64 bit system without needing to rely on Bitbridge as much. This shouldn't be hard for you guys to achieve as most plugins that come bundled with Sonar are either own by you guys or by Roland with the exception of True Pianos (of which a 64 bit version has been confirmed), VC-64 and GR3. So it'd be down to two plugins for a full native 64 bit package  . Thanks in advanced!
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Surealtime
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 05:51:21
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I thought VC-64 was 64bit, isn't that what the "64" refers to?
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elle
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 12:10:21
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ORIGINAL: Surealtime
I thought VC-64 was 64bit, isn't that what the "64" refers to?
VC-64 is 64-bit in terms of processing 64-bit data, i.e. the input signal is processed and outputted as an array of 64-bit floating point numbers with double precision. However the code of the plug-in, the one which is sent to the CPU, is 32-bit, i.e. it cannot be natively run on 64-bit processor in a 64-bit OS like Vista x64. so the plug-in bitness may refer to both data it processes and code that represents the algorithm: these days normally - data can be 16-, 24-, 32-bit integer numbers or 32-, 64-bit floating point numbers (more bits means better precision and thus quality of the algorithm) - code can be 32-bit (referred as x86 or x32) or 64-bit (referred as x64) (more bits means the plug-in can address more memory and perform on a specific CPU faster) so VC-64 is an x32 plug-in that processes 64-bit floating point data. Despite it's an x32 plug-in, it can be run within Sonar x64 thanks to Cakewalk BitBridge technology. But BitBridge can be somewhat troublesome especially when there're many 32-bit plug-ins loaded and may lead to crashes as well as some plug-ins don't work at all. That's why this thread has appeared, we the users of Vista x64 and Sonar x64 want to have all plug-ins in x64 to run them in Sonar smoothly and natively. well.. the more I'll write now the more difficult it'll be to understand, so I'll stop here 
post edited by elle - 2008/12/02 12:15:43
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 12:56:32
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That was a great explanation Elle . Surealtime, Don't forget to summit a feature request to make all Sonar's plugs native 64 bit (link is in 1st post). The more people summit the better. Thanks!
post edited by Jose7822 - 2008/12/02 13:00:08
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Tom F
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 14:15:38
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personally i couldnt care less...anyone seriously expecting "better" songs via 64 bit programmed apps??? (the 64 bit mixengine is another pair of shoes and a gret thing) if you cant make good records with 3 giga of memory you cant do with 3000 .... instead of making music boring using immense libraries hire some musicians... btw... see you in the 128 bit campaign 
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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InstrEd
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 14:23:31
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nstead of making music boring using immense libraries hire some musicians... If us small timers could afford Musicians we would. The idea of 64bit system is that we can have extra libraries loaded for creating music. I decided this past spring time, not to buy any soft-synth unless it was 64bit already. I want to buy NI Kontect, but I'm waiting for 64bit release. Also very interested in Camel Audio's new synth Alechomy coming soon. That is to be 64 bit. And of course I want to see what Cakewalk has come up with with the new instrument that was to come out last Jan. I know that will have to be 64bit. Also I was set to buy Omnisphere, but not 64bit. Ed
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ericlemmons
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 15:10:55
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Can I get some advice on how to go 64bit?
I'm thinking about going with an AMD Phenom processor with 8Gig of RAM.
Shouldn't the RAM make a giant difference with 64bit?
Should I go Vista or XP 64bit?
What soundcards/modules are supported with 64bit drivers? Which are recommended?
Any advice would be much appreiciated.
Thanks, all.
Eric
Eric Lemmons EricLemmons@yahoo.com
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inmazevo
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 15:26:12
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ORIGINAL: info@tomflair.com
personally i couldnt care less...anyone seriously expecting "better" songs via 64 bit programmed apps??? (the 64 bit mixengine is another pair of shoes and a gret thing) if you cant make good records with 3 giga of memory you cant do with 3000 .... instead of making music boring using immense libraries hire some musicians...
btw... see you in the 128 bit campaign
Certainly that's a valid point... At least, for the moment, there are a great many people who don't use enough memory to need today's primary 64bit benefit (more memory). However, there are two things to consider, some of which is already happening, which will make the point valid only for a short time more: 1. more memory isn't the only thing to consider, it's just the one most focused on... more registers, higher bandwidth, also come in to play, but frankly I don't think we'll see the positive results of those 64bit benefits until perhaps revision 3 or 4 of 64bit code, and probably another iteration or two of hardware. 2. apps are getting bigger and heavier, as are operating systems. Already, right now, there is the relative heaviness of vista, as well as several plugins that have reached the limits of running optimally on 32bit machines... namely omnisphere. So, to be perfectly honest, I actually do expect better songs if the 32bit limitations start eliminating certain instruments from my collection. Today, it's omnisphere and a few others, but tomorrow it will likely be many more, and that I find can be quite limiting to what I do (almost entirely in-the-box, virtual instrument pieces). I'm not dismissing your point. It's a valid point. I just don't think it will be something that will be sustainable over the next few years. 64bit will be necessary for many, many people, including those who are fine without it right now (which, as I said, is not a small amount of people). - zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2008/12/02 15:28:09
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Tom F
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 15:54:47
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ORIGINAL: inmazevo
ORIGINAL: info@tomflair.com
personally i couldnt care less...anyone seriously expecting "better" songs via 64 bit programmed apps??? (the 64 bit mixengine is another pair of shoes and a gret thing) if you cant make good records with 3 giga of memory you cant do with 3000 .... instead of making music boring using immense libraries hire some musicians...
btw... see you in the 128 bit campaign
Certainly that's a valid point...
At least, for the moment, there are a great many people who don't use enough memory to need today's primary 64bit benefit (more memory).
However, there are two things to consider, some of which is already happening, which will make the point valid only for a short time more:
1. more memory isn't the only thing to consider, it's just the one most focused on... more registers, higher bandwidth, also come in to play, but frankly I don't think we'll see the positive results of those 64bit benefits until perhaps revision 3 or 4 of 64bit code, and probably another iteration or two of hardware.
2. apps are getting bigger and heavier, as are operating systems. Already, right now, there is the relative heaviness of vista, as well as several plugins that have reached the limits of running optimally on 32bit machines... namely omnisphere.
So, to be perfectly honest, I actually do expect better songs if the 32bit limitations start eliminating certain instruments from my collection. Today, it's omnisphere and a few others, but tomorrow it will likely be many more, and that I find can be quite limiting to what I do (almost entirely in-the-box, virtual instrument pieces).
I'm not dismissing your point. It's a valid point.
I just don't think it will be something that will be sustainable over the next few years. 64bit will be necessary for many, many people, including those who are fine without it right now (which, as I said, is not a small amount of people).
- zevo
i also agree with you - its a matter of time - but we will never reach that nirvanic state that some here are craving for...as soon as all is 64 they will come up with some other weird stuff - and there we go - update again...i know its "normal" nowadys but i feel that the so called progress is sometimes eating itself this days...considering the immenses specs of actual systems i really wonder how i made rocksolid and nice songs ten years ago...it worked then - and i worked in a more relaxed way cos i hadn´t to hunt for some daily/weekly update of some app...today definitely much more productivity gets wasted through "specs-sticklerism" than some years ago...
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 16:40:55
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Removed by OP.
post edited by Jose7822 - 2008/12/03 03:09:19
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Tom F
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 16:56:07
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ORIGINAL: Jose7822
Hey Tom,
I know that what you have a point in what you say. BUT (as always there's a but), I think it's a primitive way of thinking. If everybody was like that then we'd still be using 4 track recorders or cutting tape and writting down hardware settings we used in this song or the other. Back in the day, 20 - 40 years ago (you like that? ), people made awesome recordings with the tools they had. Today, almost anyone willing to put the time and effort can get close or better recordings without spending a fortune.
Imagine if people back then said, "OK, we have all the tools to make great music so we'll stop here", we wouldn't have DAW's and other software we use today, would we? This is why I'm glad most people are NOT like you and limit themselves to what they have now when there's always better. If there's a tool that's gonna help me record better music, and I can afford it, then you bet I'll get it. If you feel what you have is enough then fine, stick to it. But don't come here telling me what to do only because you don't think it'll help me. My needs are not the same as yours. Remember that.
yeah...the point is that "newer" isnt per definition "better" especially when a new systm is highly prone to not work as good as it should...i wasnt saying progress isnt good - i wanted to say that "pseudoprogress" sucks... 10 years ago i had a system that surely had some limitations (which urged me to be creative) BUT it worked 99,99% of the time...today my system (and those of friends of mine) work at lets say 75% of the time ... and thats a HUGHE difference...i would prefer stability and predictability over hundreds of new options that kill my system when i want to be creative and relaxed...there have been entire weeks when i didnt touch my "modern" system because i was so angry that i was close to destroing my pc... i wanna make music - i do not want to be a system technician that repairs daws or looks for dll files or other stuff like that... ps: if everything works for you in the brave new daw world then CONGRATULATION MY 2008 DAW EXPERIENCE : 
post edited by info@tomflair.com - 2008/12/02 16:59:36
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 17:09:52
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Removed by OP.
post edited by Jose7822 - 2008/12/03 03:09:02
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elle
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 17:32:32
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believe it or not: same project, Vista x64, intel core 2 Quad, running in Sonar 7PE x32 and x64, uses a lot of x32 plugs performance in Sonar x32: unbalanced CPU cores usage, average at 10-30% on each core, spikes on one core to 70-80% which can leads to dropouts or unexpected crackles performance in Sonar x64: all cores loaded at 20-22% and running smooothly as a knife through the butter and I'm not the only one with the same performance improvements. And for me, as what I normally do is mixing with tons of EQ, compressors, reverbs, delay etc - such a smooth and streamlined DAW is the most important thing. I need to hear the differnce I produce with tools without ANY glitches. This is why I'm for 64-bit. RAM factor is not that important for me
post edited by elle - 2008/12/02 17:36:28
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Tom F
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 17:34:42
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Just don't come here to mock me only because YOU think it's worthless. That's all I'm saying. hey jose what is it that you cant stand? humour? alternative opinions? pictures of neanderthals? me? you sound worried? can i help you? have a nice day
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 18:12:33
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Removed by OP.
post edited by Jose7822 - 2008/12/03 03:09:41
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Tom F
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 18:28:52
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The thread has gone WAY OT and I want to keep the vibe we had before you came to it. You can PM me if you still have something to say but don't be surprise if I do not reply. wow.. at least you put 2 smileys befor that one dont see the negative vibe that you suppose i brought in here... thanks for the option of sending an eventually unanswered pm - you could call me on the phone - eventually i wont pick it up really jose i am not looking for a rant with you - good night (at least here it is night - so dont lets argue about that )
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inmazevo
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 18:55:56
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Perhaps this thread isn't the best place for a "what's good/bad/indifferent between 32bit/64bit" debates.
The original thread is really about getting more companies to do 64bit now, by people who want 64bit now.
Another thread, which I'll be happy to start, would probably be better for debates. Otherwise, this thread will not be useful to those of us who care a great deal about having 64bit now.
I'll go start one, ok?
- zevo
(ALL in respect... and I DO mean that. But this is a good thread, and I really don't want it to go downhill and end up not being read or taken seriously, since I'll actually post links to this in any communications I have with companies I'm interacting with)
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razor
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 19:02:36
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Done--Just filled out the request form. I am waiting on Windows 7 and then I am going 64-bit. I want to be able to use more RAM and push SONAR to the max for real-time recording sessions and I feel like this is the only way to do it...
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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Tom F
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 19:26:21
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ORIGINAL: inmazevo
Perhaps this thread isn't the best place for a "what's good/bad/indifferent between 32bit/64bit" debates.
The original thread is really about getting more companies to do 64bit now, by people who want 64bit now.
Another thread, which I'll be happy to start, would probably be better for debates. Otherwise, this thread will not be useful to those of us who care a great deal about having 64bit now.
I'll go start one, ok?
- zevo
(ALL in respect... and I DO mean that. But this is a good thread, and I really don't want it to go downhill and end up not being read or taken seriously, since I'll actually post links to this in any communications I have with companies I'm interacting with)
ok - sorry zevo...i am out
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inmazevo
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/02 19:33:07
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ORIGINAL: info@tomflair.com
ORIGINAL: inmazevo
Perhaps this thread isn't the best place for a "what's good/bad/indifferent between 32bit/64bit" debates.
The original thread is really about getting more companies to do 64bit now, by people who want 64bit now.
Another thread, which I'll be happy to start, would probably be better for debates. Otherwise, this thread will not be useful to those of us who care a great deal about having 64bit now.
I'll go start one, ok?
- zevo
(ALL in respect... and I DO mean that. But this is a good thread, and I really don't want it to go downhill and end up not being read or taken seriously, since I'll actually post links to this in any communications I have with companies I'm interacting with)
ok - sorry zevo...i am out
Oh, it's cool. It's worthy of debate, and to that end, I started a thread here to continue the discussion: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1565466 - zevo
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Elffin
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/03 13:07:20
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/03 13:47:21
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Try dissabling X-Ray to see if that makes the GUI show up. Else, you'll have to report this to Voxengo.
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Elffin
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/03 13:58:12
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Voxengo works fine... its the other Vacuumsounds plugins that don't appear right...
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/03 14:19:30
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Oops, that's a typo. I had Voxengo stuck in my head, but you get the idea .
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Elffin
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2008/12/13 09:59:08
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Elffin
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/01/08 14:58:34
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