Randy brought up the question of using multiple libraries, something I think most of us routinely do. One lib might have great strings but lousy percussion, for instance.

For this particular exercise, I think it would be best if we try to stick to one library per submission. This will make it easier to compare libraries, which is after all the main objective.

However, we do not want to tell anyone how to do this! No rules. You decide how you want to approach it, and if that means using five libraries then go for it. Just bear in mind that your submission will be less valuable as a reference to others if you do so.

rbowser

 The idea is, as Billy said, to indeed use all the controls which are unique to the library you're using.  DO NOT simply run this MIDI arrangement through the library and accept the results.  MIDI controller data should be used as thoroughly as you want, and the mix itself should be produced equally as thoroughly as you want.

OK - thanks for clarifying, Randy.

+1 on the MP3 reply.  256kbps usually sounds fine.  I always do my MP3s at 320.  Let's keep these to MP3s so they're all the same format.  I doubt if anyone here would want to share an MP3 of their work at less than 256kbps, but if I'm wrong, then do make at least a 256kbps MP3 instead of a bitrate any lower than that.

AND--IMPORTANT NOTE:

--If someone happens to announce in advance what soft synth they'll be using for their version of the "Trek" theme, don't let that discourage you if you were wanting to do one with the same library.  We already have some entries made with the same synth, and they sound different because of the different ways each person puts a recording together.

Randy B.

Bitflipper, i got to ask have you used East West? Vienna?

Nope, not me. I actually do all my strings on a hardware synth - and yes, I'll be submitting a Star Trek version made that way, too.

I do have the older VSL samples that came bundled with Kontakt 3, and plan to use them in a version of Star Trek. But that's not the same as the "real" VSL - not even close. So by all means, Scott, knock us out with the good stuff!

Take your time, Billy. There's no deadline.

rbowser


"...even if I don't get the time to contribute..."

Nah, you gotta do it, Billy.  That's all. 

As per Bit - there's no deadline!

Randy B.

Dave and Randy, I'll do my best to find time.  No promises, but I want to give it a shot if I can :)
Thanks.
 

Hi Guys,

Well, I have just submitted my version to Randy now via the link provided.
 
In keeping with the thread I will refrain here from any details of the library, samples or tools / techniques that I used. I did however send those details to you Randy in my covering email with the file attached. Being tired however, I completely forgot to explain in my email what I did with regard to CC data. I will be happy to elucidate if required at a later stage but I dont think I am going to have people queueing up at my door for my production secrets just yet !

Great idea and execution gents, I'm looking forward to hearing the results in due course.

Regards

Garry Kiosk
 
EDIT: Typos

Thank you, Gary Kiosk - Email received, document and MP3 safely in the growing folder.  It's super that you squeezed time in for this before you go on holiday.  Have a great time while you're away!.

I'll give it a few more days, then put the page together with all the entries.

"...Heh, you do realize saying there's no deadline is not a good thing to say to a musician..."

hehe--Yeah - But we only said there wasn't a deadline to not frighten away the timid.  The truth is - DEADLINE IS NOW - You vill produce, Now!

--KIDDING - It'll be nice to have a good list of these in the near future, but then it can keep on growing as people are moved to do something with the software they use.

Randy B.

I'm sure mixmkr is correct, but imo the important thing is that those still new to many aspects of midi and Sonar can learn. As long as the "how" is published for us to do that.

Edit: I know the thread started as the best library but of course things always change here....

--There are clearly still misunderstandings of what this is all about.

I appreciate your post, mixmkr.  You're so right that the most important ingredient in how these tracks will sound, and how Any tracks sound is the human being(s) responsible for the production.

But like in some earlier posts, you're clearly not reading this thread thoroughly enough to understand that what you say here is Completely Incorrect:

"...To not be able to change the MIDI files too... velocity, sustain... all that stuff is waaay too important..."

One more time, with feeling:  The MIDI file is the beginning.  The absolutely rawest of the data, the notes, the arrangement, that needs to remain essentially the same so that all of the recorded tracks have that starting point in common.

"...But editing the velocity, sustain, "all that stuff" is something that Should be done as just part of the process in making your software of choice sound the best with that file..."

To repeat - Every MIDI controller that your software responds to can be used, every and anything you have to do to the data in the track besides changing the notes is EXPECTED.  Edit the velocity, edit the sustain, do any and everything you want.

I know there's a lot of info to wade through, but quite a few times now, we've tried to make it clear that we are NOT putting limits on what people want to do with editing data and mixing the audio.  They should do whatever they want to showcase their chosen soft synth in its best light.

Your post makes me think of the demos we've all heard of software instruments.  Most often they are produced professionally.  If the companies were totally honest they would say, "Here's what our software can sound like if you also have a million dollar studio to produce your music the way we've done here in our demos."

Once a musician gets around just for a little while, he knows to not take demos as true reflections of what he'll be able to do with a given piece of software in his own studio.

A sterling example of a company that Does Not do that with its demos is Garritan.  The demos are all user produced.  Most are done on a single home computer with nothing more than what the user gets when he buys a Garritan Library.  They are still likely to sound a lot better than what most people can produce with the same tools, because the users who made those demos are very talented people.

So the point about demos is that there is No Such Thing as a "pure demo" of any software instrument you would care to name.  It Always has to do with how talented the person is who put the demo together.

You're right, I repeat, that the human being is the main ingredient.  But the rest of your post is presupposing that a "pure demo" can even exist.  There's no such thing.  Of course we could never arrive at a universally agreed upon opinion about what orchestral library is "best" "second best" etc - This is being put together to help people arrive at their own conclusions.

Like any demos of software, these "Star Trek" renditions will be the results of two ingredients - the software used, and the person who made the recording.

That's why to have multiple soft synths represented will be very interesting - I've already heard the same synth used in some of these "Trek" projects and they sound very different precisely because different people produced the tracks.

"...this may not really produce the results wanted..."

Yes, they will produced exactly what is wanted and expected - As I've tried to explain in this post.

Randy B.

This looks like a cool idea. 

I've got another account on here, but the password reset wasn't working - it's been a while since I visited (and fired up Sonar).

Just want to clarify the boundaries here.  From what I read, there's no adjusting/adding/deleting notes in the arrangement.  Is this the entire note-on to note-off sequence of events? or is it just limited to the note name/note-on parameter.  I'm thinking that there may be a need to adjust octaves to suit different libraries and possibly adjust note-off values to get the appropriate sound...

Cheers, Dave

Dave Chick
Composer - Hatched Productions

mixmkr
I think this is great, but my $.02 why this may not really produce the results wanted.

The composer/arranger/musican is BY FAR the biggest element in how these will sound.

Meh, I'm unconcerned. If I hear a great example done with a POS sample set it'll still be valuable to read the notes about how they sequenced it. 


Similarly with a great sound set. I'm kind of a newb when it comes to articulations anyway, so it can still be educational.


Just because someone isn't the world's best driver doesn't mean seeing them cruise by in a Ferrari isn't a good experience. 

Randy

I realized after posting that I was changing the topic in some way, perhaps to a tutorial away from let's compare.

chckn8r1


This looks like a cool idea. 

I've got another account on here, but the password reset wasn't working - it's been a while since I visited (and fired up Sonar).

Just want to clarify the boundaries here.  From what I read, there's no adjusting/adding/deleting notes in the arrangement.  Is this the entire note-on to note-off sequence of events? or is it just limited to the note name/note-on parameter.  I'm thinking that there may be a need to adjust octaves to suit different libraries and possibly adjust note-off values to get the appropriate sound...

Cheers, Dave

Dave Chick
Composer - Hatched Productions

Hi, Dave - Glad you want to jump in, and thanks for the good questions.

You're correct, that we don't want the arrangement of the notes to be changed.  But the duration of a note is arbitrary, that should be changed as per what you the producer wants to do, and how your library of choice sounds best.  And I understand what you mean about different libraries having instruments in different octaves - Definitely shift octaves to match what works with your instruments.

As I've been trying to make clear, there's Tons of leeway here - Just don't re-write the arrangement.

Good example of how note editing could be called for - Maybe you have a soft synth which has its snare on several notes.  The MIDI file has the snare all on one note.  If you know your instrument will sound better with that snare line being played over several notes - change it!  Keep with the intent of the arrangement but adjust the file to show off your instrument to its best advantage.

Randy B.

DaveElson


Randy

I realized after posting that I was changing the topic in some way, perhaps to a tutorial away from let's compare.

Hi, Dave - I don't think you were changing the topic.  I understood you to be asking if there were going to be explanations posted along with the tracks - and the answer is, yes, there are.  But there's not a form for people to fill out, i.e. "What was the first thing you did with this file? - What did you do next?" etc.  People are providing text, some shorter, some longer, passing on whatever they want to pass on about how they worked up the MIDI file.  I know it's going to be instructional for everyone who takes a look.

Randy B.