Helpful ReplyThe SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers

Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 4 of 11
Author
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 07:03:45 (permalink)
I really don't understand this Mac vs PC debate in a ProAudio context. Like Anderton put it, once you have your program open, you really don't deal with the OS much. I can spend hours in Sonar without needing anything else on the computer. Whether I have finder or Explorer, NTFS or HFS+ really doesn't matter 99 percent of the time. I'm quicker on Windows if I need to make a setting or do something else, but that's mostly relevant because I need to use my laptop for a bunch of things as I don't do studio work full-time. If I had a truly dedicated system it would make no difference to me what the OS was. I could even set Sonar/Logic to autorun on boot.
#91
millzy
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 890
  • Joined: 2005/01/28 20:32:51
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 07:21:40 (permalink)
Not have to deal with Windows is always a HUGE bonus for me.
 
Once you're running Bootcamp and Windows, you are essentially running a PC - albeit, a very fancy (and underpowered) PC. Not a very exciting perspective.
 
For me, it's just not worth the hassle.
 
I would run a native version of Sonar (admitting that I didn't have to upgrade OS) on my Mac anytime. But even though I sometimes would have liked having access to Sonar, I never seriously considered Bootcamp since I switched in 2010.

 
I get the hassle of having to install Windows, then Sonar, but are there really performance issues? When you say 'underpowered', does running Windows on a Mac somehow downgrade the performance of the Mac? Sorry, still trying to understand apart from the hassle of installing another OS on the machine, what the Bootcamp issues are. 

Millzy

i7 3770K, 16gb ram, Samsung EVO SSD, 2 x WD drives, RME Babyface, Win 10 (x64), Cakewalk by Bandlab, heaps of other stuff.
#92
tenfoot
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2186
  • Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
  • Location: Qld, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 07:37:44 (permalink)
millzy
Not have to deal with Windows is always a HUGE bonus for me.

Once you're running Bootcamp and Windows, you are essentially running a PC - albeit, a very fancy (and underpowered) PC. Not a very exciting perspective.

For me, it's just not worth the hassle.

I would run a native version of Sonar (admitting that I didn't have to upgrade OS) on my Mac anytime. But even though I sometimes would have liked having access to Sonar, I never seriously considered Bootcamp since I switched in 2010.

 
I get the hassle of having to install Windows, then Sonar, but are there really performance issues? When you say 'underpowered', does running Windows on a Mac somehow downgrade the performance of the Mac? Sorry, still trying to understand apart from the hassle of installing another OS on the machine, what the Bootcamp issues are. 


I ran a bootcamped Macbook pro running Sonar for 3 years without any issue Milzy - back when macs were fast though:) There was certainly no performance hit as you are essentially running windows natively. Perhaps the poster is thinking of Paralells and various other windows emulators which are a freakin' nightmare.

Bruce.
 
Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
#93
awake1994
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2016/06/04 09:13:02
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 07:39:16 (permalink)
millzy
but are there really performance issues?

Not here. I'm running a 2012 i7-iMac with both macOS and Bootcamp/W10. Cubase, Studio one, they've the same performance on both OS. Sonar runs into some dropouts or crashes, maybe this is a specific problem with my FW-Interface.
 
The software world is running fast and a new manager will popup the message "Let's make Sonar4Mac" ;)

SPlatinum / SL16.0.2 / Win10 on iMac
#94
Vastman
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2508
  • Joined: 2006/08/30 02:49:18
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 07:56:42 (permalink)
Apple's consumer/phone thrust has hit the artistic community hard.  Ironically, Microsoft's failure to succeed phone wise forces a greater focus on their main platform and a grab is on for the growing art of humanity... within which Sonar resides!
 
While I recognize the value of cross platform, I've never owned an apple product and doubt I ever will so hope this leads to better focus on bakin' the cakes we all know and love  by MS and Cake!

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat 
#95
Kev999
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3922
  • Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
  • Location: Victoria, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 08:01:01 (permalink)
As a non-Mac fan I should be disinterested in all this. However the idea of Sonar on a Mac seems like an exciting development, even if it's only a cut-down version and not the full application. Unfortunately I don't currently have access to a Mac. Otherwise I would certainly be checking it out.
post edited by Kev999 - 2017/04/20 08:22:06

SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
#96
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 08:03:41 (permalink)
What's strange in this whole deal is that Apple itself has such a strong focus on design, you'd think they'd be on top of the game for graphic design and Autocad workstations. I wonder if their designers are "secretly" working on dual-videocard Alienware/Clevo/MSI laptops for rendering. There are no truly high powered Macbooks that compete in that area.

All computers suck, as far as I'm concerned.
#97
LJB
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1502
  • Joined: 2009/07/29 10:31:31
  • Location: South Africa
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 08:14:06 (permalink)
Thanks for the update and the open and honest communication Cakewalk. The only reason I would change to Mac is to get a better Sonar experience - can't wait to see what you bring to the party next!

Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
--------------------
Cakewalk
with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107

Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za

#98
awake1994
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2016/06/04 09:13:02
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 08:14:53 (permalink)
Kev999
As a non-Mac fan I should be disinterested in all this. However the idea of Sonar on a Mac seems like an exciting development, even if it's only a cut-down version and not the full application. Unfortunately I don't currently have access to a Mac. Otherwise I would would be checking it out.


I'm also not a Mac fan, I'm using it but I'll never download a joke.

SPlatinum / SL16.0.2 / Win10 on iMac
#99
Rain
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9736
  • Joined: 2003/11/07 05:10:12
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 08:31:23 (permalink)
millzy
Not have to deal with Windows is always a HUGE bonus for me.

Once you're running Bootcamp and Windows, you are essentially running a PC - albeit, a very fancy (and underpowered) PC. Not a very exciting perspective.

For me, it's just not worth the hassle.

I would run a native version of Sonar (admitting that I didn't have to upgrade OS) on my Mac anytime. But even though I sometimes would have liked having access to Sonar, I never seriously considered Bootcamp since I switched in 2010.

 
I get the hassle of having to install Windows, then Sonar, but are there really performance issues? When you say 'underpowered', does running Windows on a Mac somehow downgrade the performance of the Mac? Sorry, still trying to understand apart from the hassle of installing another OS on the machine, what the Bootcamp issues are. 




I was thinking that most people using PC usually build or buy incredibly powerful machines -  by a PC user standard, Mac computers are often underpowered.
 
I don' believe there'd be anymore performance issue than on another machine, since a Mac is essentially a PC.

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
lfm
Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2216
  • Joined: 2005/01/24 05:35:33
  • Location: Sweden
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 08:31:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2017/04/21 12:01:16
Better with one bun fully baked, than two half baked.
 
Not even Avid is succeding from the position they had in industry, and still has to a large part.
Going current route with rather affordable daw and upgrade plans etc - stock has halfed in value anyway.
It's probably MediaComposer than is the golden egg, not ProTools.
 
And still with resources they have - PT Windows versions is a cpu hog compared to other main daws.
Avid are Mac people, it seems, and Windows version is not that well optimized, IMO.
It matter which platform main development is made.
 
Reaper had at some point really slow plugin scanning on Mac(long ago now), so I think they develop on Windows first.
 
Digital Performer, when coming on Windows, after two years and I tested - double cpu compared to Sonar, Reaper, Samp and Cubase.
 
So it's really hard to do as well on both platforms.
 
Fired up my old Sonar Artist 2015 the other day, to run some video, since I am waiting for Steinberg to come around with a video engine that does not require Quicktime. FullHD and it ran as smooth as anything, not a hickup. Even better than some video editors I am evaluating. So getting started on Sonar, I might continue. I like Sonar a lot.
Rain
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9736
  • Joined: 2003/11/07 05:10:12
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 08:41:28 (permalink)
FWIW, I've downloaded and installed it on my old 2010 MacBook pro and tested it for a few minutes using a bundled demo project, and it seems to be working just fine even just with the built-in audio. I'll give it a try with the Focusrite interface that I use for my secondary workstation. But even as is, it's okay.
 
Ironically, my DAW runs an unsupported OS (because I refuse to upgrade), so, in a sense, I'm glad that Sonar for MAC will not be released after all, because that might have made me want to mess up with OS upgrades, or even just dual boot. The less I have to think about computer stuff, the better...
 
Anyway, thank you Cakewalk for the freebie. At last I can access my old projects!

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
soens
Max Output Level: -23.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5154
  • Joined: 2005/09/16 03:19:55
  • Location: Location: Location
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 09:28:01 (permalink)
I was hoping they'd see this through. Not an apple user at all but they do have much better device integration than windows and I was hoping to use an ipad as a remote control for Sonar on Mac. Some say you can use an ipad with windows that way but all my attempts to do so have failed.
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 09:42:54 (permalink)
Really? Any remote desktop app should work, as well as a few dedicated controller apps.
35mm
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1105
  • Joined: 2008/12/09 08:21:44
  • Location: Devon, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 10:17:38 (permalink)
Rain
35mm
I don't use Mac. It sucks.

 
That's quite a reference. 
 
I do. It doesn't. Checkmate. 
 
35mm
 At the end of the day though, I think it's too late to be porting to Mac as it's in it's death throws and good riddance to it.

 
Or... the vast majority of the people actually earning a living out of this who also happen to work on Mac just don't spend much time on the internet complaining and reading such doomsday predictions.
 


Rain, the days of pros exclusively using Macs is all but over. Apple Mac sales have been in decline for years. Jobs was the imagineer who lead the revolution and inspired a generation, but without him, the Mac platform has lost its way and Apple is now concentrating its efforts on the more profitable mobile tech market. It sucks because when you buy a Mac you are buying into the whole apple brand which is geared into getting you to buy other overpriced Apple products and takes away your freedoms - a Mac these days is just a PC that has been locked to only work with OSX. Windows sucks too, to be honest, but at least you get more freedom. PC gives you the freedom to spec and build your own, more powerful system at a fraction of the cost and then run whatever software you want except OSX of course. For my work, I use various flavours of Linux and run Linux mint on my main laptop. Linux is seeing the highest growth of any OS in recent years while OSX is in decline and windows is fairly stagnant. You can make up your own mind as to why that is, but I think it's partly because Mac sucks :)
gbooker61
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1
  • Joined: 2017/04/20 09:23:29
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 11:33:23 (permalink)
For the last hour or so I have been trying to open the Sonar Mac Prototype on my MacBook Pro with no luck. The splash screen appears but that's it. A few minutes later it simply closes. Very disappointing.
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
  • Total Posts : 6475
  • Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
  • Location: Boston, MA, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 12:08:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby coolbass 2017/04/20 15:33:17
Sycraft
It is too bad that they promoted it. They should have just kept quiet as they worked on it. I understand how their excitement and zeal overrode good business sense though. Also they probably thought it would be easier than it is. Particularly if they were playing with Codeweaver's stuff. Crossover is based on Wine and as any Linux user who's played with Wine or Crossover can tell you it seems really cool and functional at first, but the devil is in the details and starts manifesting as you dig deep in to a program. So while something may be "compatible" you find a lot of advanced functionality doesn't work or works wrong.
 
Stuff like this is why companies often hold their cards really close to the chest: You never know what can crop up that'll screw with plans and if you announce things early in the development phase, it can build up expectations that later get crushed.




Its a question of damned if you do and damned if you dont... The whole plan for the mac release last year was always to phase it. i.e. there is absolutely no way a full port could be done of SONAR with our limited resources. So we partnered with code weavers who are experts in this area. The original goal was to use this approach to start and GRADUALLY phase in more and more native elements as the project progressed in parallel, based on user feedback. This is an absolutely feasible way to do a cross platform port and many other companies have
done it. But it would be many years before a fully A/B compatible port would be ready. Its quite amazing actually the amount that works in the first alpha! The biggest part of any cross platform port is actually not audio but other areas like GUI, inter-operation with other programs, etc.
 
BTW most people bashing Crossover/Wine simply don't know enough about it. I worked on Wine many years ago (developing it not using it) and it essentially serves as a porting framework. If something doesn't work efficiently you are free to change it and improve it. That's the approach that Codeweavers takes and we were working with them on optimizing it so that performance was acceptable.
 
Anyway there is always a risk with pre announcing anything since some percentage of people will have different expectations. Could we have managed expectations better, sure. I know that anyone who contacted us was told that this was going to be an alpha release. The reason its home studio is because that has a simpler set of features that were achievable to port for the alpha and to remove licensing issues.
 

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
Tim Flannagin
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 132
  • Joined: 2015/01/28 16:50:14
  • Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 13:02:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/04/20 15:10:31
Anderton
So bottom line...will be very disappointing to some, irrelevant to others, yet still useful for cross-platform SONAR users such as myself. 

Count me in the irrelevant camp. I want Cakewalk to focus on what it's always been for me: the best game in town for PC/Windows users. If I wanted to use Macs, there are plenty of players making software for them. You guys are doing awesome work on the PC platform... keep it up.

Dell Precision T5400, 2 Xeon E5420 CPUs, 32 GB ram, 1 X 750 GB HDD, 2 X 1TB HDD, Nvidia GTX750 , M-Audio 1010LT, Roland GR-55, Novation SL MKII 49 , Arturia MiniLab, Arturia Spark Creative Drum Controller, '77 Gibson Les Paul Artistan, Epiphone Les Paul Studio w/ GK-3, Fender Stratocaster, Dean Exotica Acoustic, Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Lifetime, Arturia  Synths galore!, Cakewalk Synths galore!, M-Audio BX-5a monitors, a couple of cheap mikes, a dubious quality desk, several shady characters hanging in the studio, etc....
slyman
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 194
  • Joined: 2015/08/31 13:55:12
  • Location: Montreal, QC
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 13:32:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FCCfirstclass 2017/04/20 15:52:13
chuckebaby
Im glad. Now cakewalk can focus on more important things like fixes and updating new features (IE- Ripple editing).
I think this was the proper move to make.



My thoughts, exactly......

Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
bitman
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4105
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:11:54
  • Location: Keystone Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 13:37:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Logan Thomas [Cakewalk] 2017/04/20 13:40:41
Cool hedgehogs never look back at the explosion.
Or:
Don't look back, my bridge is breaking, it's been too long since I felt this way.

post edited by bitman - 2017/04/20 15:17:50
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2567
  • Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
  • Location: West Midlands, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 13:41:02 (permalink)
millzyI get the hassle of having to install Windows, then Sonar, but are there really performance issues? When you say 'underpowered', does running Windows on a Mac somehow downgrade the performance of the Mac? Sorry, still trying to understand apart from the hassle of installing another OS on the machine, what the Bootcamp issues are. 


Well, for a start MacOS's Core Audio and Core MIDI mean there's no need to worry about setting up special configurations that disable cpu sleep modes, core parking, etc. to get consistent very low latency performance. That alone counts for a lot.

OS updates generally don't result in the kind of issues that see lots of threads on this and other forums. Updates aren't pushed or compulsory either.

If you need MIDI over wi-fi or a virtual MIDI cable they're built in to the OS and "just work". No problems using wifi or bluetooth at the same time as a DAW either. Good, native wireless MIDI networking is one reason you see Macs on stages rather than laptop PCs.

Another factor is the hardware consistency. Let's say my gigging MacBook died or was stolen. I could order a replacement and have it in 24 hours if bog standard, a few days if customised. And then be absolutely certain I can stream my backup image onto it in a few hours and it will work. There's no assurance that's the case with laptop PCs. I could even do fly gigs carrying just a USB drive or some DVDs, ask the promoter/venue to provide a Mac to the required spec and install my stuff onto it in a couple of hours or less.

Use the bootcamp drivers and you're running a Windows computer with all that entails, good and bad.

It's just a small snapshot I know, but I was at a small, quite unique and very informal festival over the weekend. "Small" in terms of audience capacity, but some very well known established bands in their fields (and in at least one case internationally for nearly 50 years). Every computer on stage, running the mix or lights/on-the-fly video projection had a glowing apple on the back of it. A few iPads as well. Not a single PC, and talking to people, both band members and musicians amongst the audience, I suspect that might be the case for some time.

What a large studio requires of a computer system and what a project studio or live work calls for are rather different things.

Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 337
  • Joined: 2011/05/17 17:18:01
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 13:55:16 (permalink)
Keni
So...
No one else is having trouble installing it?
After claiming successful installation. Trying to launch reports it as incomplete or damaged. I've re-done the install several times as well as the download (my first copy was reported as damaged during install)
I notice that the app shows as zero bytes... No size. So I'm guessing that's a sign of the problem? 
Any ideas?



Can you send me a PM with your system settings and I can try to help?

Lance Riley
Product Manager
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 14:29:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby karhide 2017/04/20 14:50:14
tlw
millzyI get the hassle of having to install Windows, then Sonar, but are there really performance issues? When you say 'underpowered', does running Windows on a Mac somehow downgrade the performance of the Mac? Sorry, still trying to understand apart from the hassle of installing another OS on the machine, what the Bootcamp issues are. 


Well, for a start MacOS's Core Audio and Core MIDI mean there's no need to worry about setting up special configurations that disable cpu sleep modes, core parking, etc. to get consistent very low latency performance. That alone counts for a lot.

OS updates generally don't result in the kind of issues that see lots of threads on this and other forums. Updates aren't pushed or compulsory either.

If you need MIDI over wi-fi or a virtual MIDI cable they're built in to the OS and "just work". No problems using wifi or bluetooth at the same time as a DAW either. Good, native wireless MIDI networking is one reason you see Macs on stages rather than laptop PCs.

Another factor is the hardware consistency. Let's say my gigging MacBook died or was stolen. I could order a replacement and have it in 24 hours if bog standard, a few days if customised. And then be absolutely certain I can stream my backup image onto it in a few hours and it will work. There's no assurance that's the case with laptop PCs. I could even do fly gigs carrying just a USB drive or some DVDs, ask the promoter/venue to provide a Mac to the required spec and install my stuff onto it in a couple of hours or less.

Use the bootcamp drivers and you're running a Windows computer with all that entails, good and bad.

It's just a small snapshot I know, but I was at a small, quite unique and very informal festival over the weekend. "Small" in terms of audience capacity, but some very well known established bands in their fields (and in at least one case internationally for nearly 50 years). Every computer on stage, running the mix or lights/on-the-fly video projection had a glowing apple on the back of it. A few iPads as well. Not a single PC, and talking to people, both band members and musicians amongst the audience, I suspect that might be the case for some time.

What a large studio requires of a computer system and what a project studio or live work calls for are rather different things.

I agree that Macbooks are still coveted as live tools, sometimes for the right reasons and sometimes because people feel they aren't "pro" if they don't have one (like Nord pianos).

Fair point about the wireless networking midi too, I haven't really needed it often but it was kind of a pain when I tried. I don't really buy the hardware consistency because that works as well and as badly for PC, you're just comparing one brand (Apple) to many brands (all PCs). If my Clevo laptop dies I can buy the same one or an updated one and it will work fine too, same as with Apple. Obviously not all PC laptops are interchangeable.

But the main thing I find baffling from your post is the assertion that updates don't break anything on OSX, because in my experience OSX updates break things far more often than Windows updates do. I get emails from Native Instruments multiple times a year to please wait with updating my OSX because they need to adapt a driver or an installer or a program. If there is anything Apple deliberately doesn't care for it's backwards compatibility, because it messes with their business model - they sell hardware, primarily. They need you to update every so few years. Microsoft makes an OS that they and it's in their interest to make and keep it compatible with as much hardware and software as they can feasibly ensure.
karhide
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 457
  • Joined: 2007/03/30 04:22:13
  • Location: Southampton / Paris
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 15:00:31 (permalink)
I think Microsoft have come along way with Windows 10 for stability.  I've been playing live for about 10 years with laptops running windows and only had a couple of problems mainly with hard drives and bass but that has not been a problem since I moved to using only SSD's.  
 
It only takes a couple of hours to get a laptop ready to play live but it helps that I use an RME interface and stick to a basic install of Ableton Live plus a couple of VST plugins I know work well.  In a windows laptop I can also upgrade memory and SSD very quickly unlike the new Macs. 
 

Studio: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 32GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace UFX - Focusrite OctoPre MK II - Audient Mico
 
Mobile: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace 400
 
Mobile2: Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM 256 GB System Drive Windows 10 64 bit
 
http://www.karhide.co.uk/
https://karhide.bandcamp.com
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Don't Delay Download Today 2017/04/20 15:01:50 (permalink)



synkrotron
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5263
  • Joined: 2006/04/28 16:21:21
  • Location: Warrington, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Don't Delay Download Today 2017/04/20 15:06:28 (permalink)
Caa2





nice

http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/
Intel Core™i7-3820QM Quad Core Mobile Processor 2.70GHz 8MB cache | Intel HM77 Express Chipset | 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 RAM | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675M - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM | 500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | Windows 10 Pro | Roland OCTA-CAPTURE | SONAR Platinum ∞ FFS| Too many VSTi's to list here | KRK KNS-8400 Headphones | Roland JP-8000 | Oberheim OB12 | Novation Nova | Gibson SG Special | PRS Studio
synkrotron
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5263
  • Joined: 2006/04/28 16:21:21
  • Location: Warrington, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Don't Delay Download Today 2017/04/20 15:09:56 (permalink)
I bought a Mac Book Pro for my missus. Neither of us really got used to the GUI after so many years of being on Windows. Liked the laptop... Nice and light, no fan, but we ended up not using it at all.
 
My son took it off our hands and installed Windows 10 on it. Works a treat...
 

http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/
Intel Core™i7-3820QM Quad Core Mobile Processor 2.70GHz 8MB cache | Intel HM77 Express Chipset | 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 RAM | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675M - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM | 500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | Windows 10 Pro | Roland OCTA-CAPTURE | SONAR Platinum ∞ FFS| Too many VSTi's to list here | KRK KNS-8400 Headphones | Roland JP-8000 | Oberheim OB12 | Novation Nova | Gibson SG Special | PRS Studio
gbarrett
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 258
  • Joined: 2003/11/18 22:21:25
  • Location: Marco Island, FL
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 15:16:57 (permalink)
Well then, Logic Pro it is!  With Windows so inconsistent, I cannot afford to lose money from clients because Microsoft decided they had a better idea for my system and implement it without asking.  Yeah, I know they have supposedly changed the update process, but it's not the first time they have said that. 
 
I've been with Cakewalk since version 2.0 DOS, it was a pretty good run, but it's over.

A real musician knows the difference between the music and the notes.
C Hudson
Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 990
  • Joined: 2003/11/04 10:02:51
  • Location: Canada
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 15:27:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby coolbass 2017/04/20 15:32:09
Sanderxpander

But the main thing I find baffling from your post is the assertion that updates don't break anything on OSX, because in my experience OSX updates break things far more often than Windows updates do. I get emails from Native Instruments multiple times a year to please wait with updating my OSX because they need to adapt a driver or an installer or a program. If there is anything Apple deliberately doesn't care for it's backwards compatibility, because it messes with their business model - they sell hardware, primarily. They need you to update every so few years. Microsoft makes an OS that they and it's in their interest to make and keep it compatible with as much hardware and software as they can feasibly ensure.

FWIW, my wife's 2010 MacBook pro runs sierra just as smooth as butter. It obviously lacks in the raw computing power of a modern machine, which shows in video render time,but the point is, a 7 year old laptop can run the latest OS on the mac side and it be very usable. Try running a 7 year old PC with the latest versions of windows. Sludgefest. Not a pleasant experience at all. This kind of throws a wrench into your argument that Apple does not care about backwards compatibility where as MS do. Not the case. MS continues to add more layers of bloat until you need a new machine to have a decent experience just checking email. NI have only given me warnings when OSX went to new point releases. Never on an update. You might own different products though so that might be why.
I've had 3 windows 10 machines perform an update then boot to a blackscreen, requiring a complete reinstall/reimage. Never experienced anything like that on Mac.
Consistency is why I went to the dark side. Professionally, Im not concerned joe blows PC can run 350 compressors and mine only 325. If joe blow updates his video card, his 350 could turn into 275. Not looking back now. In 3 years my Mac's have never let me down. I know lots of guys have great success with PC's too, many on here in fact. Bottom line , they all want your $$   :)
 

Best

CH
coolbass
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 78
  • Joined: 2014/12/20 15:41:59
  • Status: offline
Re: The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers 2017/04/20 15:31:33 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 
 
Its a question of damned if you do and damned if you dont... The whole plan for the mac release last year was always to phase it. i.e. there is absolutely no way a full port could be done of SONAR with our limited resources. So we partnered with code weavers who are experts in this area. The original goal was to use this approach to start and GRADUALLY phase in more and more native elements as the project progressed in parallel, based on user feedback. This is an absolutely feasible way to do a cross platform port and many other companies have
done it. But it would be many years before a fully A/B compatible port would be ready. Its quite amazing actually the amount that works in the first alpha! The biggest part of any cross platform port is actually not audio but other areas like GUI, inter-operation with other programs, etc.
 
BTW most people bashing Crossover/Wine simply don't know enough about it. I worked on Wine many years ago (developing it not using it) and it essentially serves as a porting framework. If something doesn't work efficiently you are free to change it and improve it. That's the approach that Codeweavers takes and we were working with them on optimizing it so that performance was acceptable.
 
Anyway there is always a risk with pre announcing anything since some percentage of people will have different expectations. Could we have managed expectations better, sure. I know that anyone who contacted us was told that this was going to be an alpha release. The reason its home studio is because that has a simpler set of features that were achievable to port for the alpha and to remove licensing issues.
 




Thank you for the explanation, Noel.
Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 4 of 11
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1