Let's all be very careful here about personal attacks on one another.

mattox82

There is plenty of reason bugs in older software cannot be fixed and are usually addressed in the next version, go find me one software project where this doesn't happen.

Windows XP.

When there is such a huge change from 8.5.3 -> X1 you can't expect a company to carry a legacy code base along with maintaining the current version whilst developing the next version.

LEGACY CODE?! IT WAS ... sorry, I'm yelling, it was only a year old for the love of Pete!

If you want software that is constantly bug fixed / service packed maybe they should raise the price to MSDN costs and you can shell out $3 - 10k a year for your DAW? I'd love to see your outcry if that happened!

I wouldn't have to pay that per year if it actually worked. I would buy it once, use it for a few years and then see if a future versions offers anything need and decide then to upgrade.

And if that's what it takes for Cakewalk to get it's software in order, then do it and get out of the home market. Presonus and Reaper (Which is FREE) seems to work just fine.

If people are sick and tired of "paying for a product that doesn't work as advertised "... stop bloody paying for it!

I have no intention of paying for another patch/version.

Well, there you go. To my eyes there is some absolutely shocking bad manners in this thread. That you don't seem to notice this doesn't, in truth, surprise me.

Windows XP.

Bub

mattox82

There is plenty of reason bugs in older software cannot be fixed and are usually addressed in the next version, go find me one software project where this doesn't happen.

Windows XP.

M - XP is bug free? I'm sure thousands of fixed were applied from XP -> Vista (My company had plenty of issues during the XP years which we reported and were fixed in Vista?

When there is such a huge change from 8.5.3 -> X1 you can't expect a company to carry a legacy code base along with maintaining the current version whilst developing the next version.

LEGACY CODE?! IT WAS ... sorry, I'm yelling, it was only a year old for the love of Pete!
M - The release was a year old, the UI code base would not have been a year old. It would have been a massive change.  

If you want software that is constantly bug fixed / service packed maybe they should raise the price to MSDN costs and you can shell out $3 - 10k a year for your DAW? I'd love to see your outcry if that happened!

I wouldn't have to pay that per year if it actually worked. I would buy it once, use it for a few years and then see if a future versions offers anything need and decide then to upgrade.

And if that's what it takes for Cakewalk to get it's software in order, then do it and get out of the home market. Presonus and Reaper (Which is FREE) seems to work just fine.

If people are sick and tired of "paying for a product that doesn't work as advertised "... stop bloody paying for it!

M - Reaper does get heaps of bug fixes that is true, but go check out the v4.0 change log there are heaps of 3x bugs which were left and sorted out with they new skinning system WALTER.

I have no intention of paying for another patch/version.

John T

Bub

mattox82

There is plenty of reason bugs in older software cannot be fixed and are usually addressed in the next version, go find me one software project where this doesn't happen.

Windows XP.

This keeps coming up. Can we put it to bed?

No, not until Microsoft stops supporting it ... in 2014 as you say.

BEATZM1D10T

If he won't listen to a Baker directly addressing his ProChannel issues I doubt he'll listen to John Thor

For the record, it wasn't 'my' ProChannel issue. Others have seen it and reported it too. I can't help it that he refused to acknowledge that in the thread you are referring to ... or if he did I missed it.

It'd be nice if a moderator closed this thread. I thought this was supposed to be about X1c info

JClosed

X1 is NOT unusable and does NOT crashes constantly for me.

It crashes often for me, often for no apparent reason and often without creating a dmp file.
I also get strange behaviour without a crash like suddenly things just not doing what they were 5 minutes previously....which are impossible to report as there is no log to send.

Lucky you is all I can say.

Twigman

JClosed

X1 is NOT unusable and does NOT crashes constantly for me.

It crashes often for me, often for no apparent reason and often without creating a dmp file.
I also get strange behaviour without a crash like suddenly things just not doing what they were 5 minutes previously....which are impossible to report as there is no log to send.

Lucky you is all I can say.

Well - I have tried and used the software on different systems, with different soft- and hardware (plugins, soundcards, controllers etc.). Also on different Operating systems (Win XP, Win7 64/32), and did not have the problems you had.

You can argue if I am lucky, but you can turn that around. Maybe you are just unlucky and was my experience not lucky at all, but just the thing most -may I say the majority of- users are getting.

The thing that supports my assumption is that this forum is not flooded by angry people that have constant crashes. That should certainly happening when the majority of users shared your experience.

Said that - I certainly hope the problems will be sorted out for you soon. It is not my intention to deny your problems or make them seem smaller...

BEATZM1D10T

Bub

BEATZM1D10T

If he won't listen to a Baker directly addressing his ProChannel issues I doubt he'll listen to John Thor

For the record, it wasn't 'my' ProChannel issue. Others have seen it and reported it too. I can't help it that he refused to acknowledge that in the thread you are referring to ... or if he did I missed it.

Alright. For the record.
 
Who are these people that are having the exact same issue that you had?
 

Mike McCue, Skullsessions iirc.

Mike even chimed in on that thread and confirmed he experienced it and reported it but the Admin didn't acknowledge it. Again, it was a very long thread and if he did and I missed it I apologize. He just kept going off on the fact that it was caused by an envelope, which is not totally accurate ... but I couldn't seem to get that through to him because he was stuck on it.

And please, don't get stuck on the PC 'on' problem. There are several other problems with it that are just as bad that have been well documented here. The turning 'on' thing is rare, but it is happening on more systems than just mine and as been reported by more than just me.

yorolpal


For instance about 90% of the time when opening the PRV (and no matter how I open it) there are no notes showing at all.  Even if I scroll through all the octaves.  Everything else is just as it should be...but no notes.  If I then get out of the PRV and immediately reopen it the notes are there.  So, most of the time, I have to open up the PRV twice in order to see any notes to edit. 

I get this sometimes; there may well be a bug, but in my case, I figured out it was user error. In the piano roll, V is the keyboard shortcut for showing or hiding the notes of the current track. But of course, V gets used all over the place in other contexts, not least as part of Paste, so I'd been inadvertently hitting V at various times and ending up really puzzled that no notes were visible.

If you have the track list pane showing at the right of the PRV, you can see a little box that highlights if the notes are shown. This could do with being a more "rude" MSR type light, I think.

So you may have a bug, but it might just be one of those things where you're flying around and banging into the intended design just because of how your fingers work; I've not had a case of it happening that I couldn't put down to this since I realised what it was.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Jonbouy


I think this is totally fair from JM24 and a courageous thing to express.

Had someone from Cakewalk had said, yes this release was a turkey from the outset and we've been working hard to get back on track (which I truly believe they have), satisfied and disatisfied customers alike would be totally happy with that explanation.

To come on here and say the genuine issues and frustration they've been having are unwarranted in the light of a long line of post release fixes that have been supplied must be galling to all but the most ardent fanboi.

I believe this was yet another 'spin' from the marketing man and I don't see why it should be lauded that he deems to join us to feed another line that fails to acknowledge the genuine concern the companies paying customers have been expected to swallow since the initial release.  Yes I think JM24's reply is nearer to the truth to what the largely intelligent user base has been experiencing to a larger extent than should be acceptable to ANY customer facing company.

The sentence quoted there is just face saving talk and unsurprisingly is likely to be construed as insulting to many however one may feel about the undoubted 'nice guy' Brandon.

And for this weird notion about supporting previous incarnations, X1 IS the previous incarnation with a reworked GUI which is why it has many of the issues replicated in minute detail carried over from previous ones.  However substantial the chunk of code that has changed lets not pretend this is a new app distinct from version 8.* it's just another progression of the same product that went a step further than the company could pull off comfortably within the time, finance and resource restraints it had clearly.

That is certainly not the fault of any paying customer.  Something went wrong here whether it was to do with a business model, planning or execution it was clearly the company that messed up here, not the buyers, and yes to come on here and repeatedly say look how well we are doing 'for you' is certainly difficult to me to interpret as a 'favour' from any staff member.

X1 might be getting up to speed now but much of that is down to the fact there is still a user base here prepared to pay for it.  Not because some marketing manager can carefully use language to disguise the truth of the situation, more likely it is despite that.

Come on Cakewalk you have the core of a killer app here that we are all willing to do well, I understand Ableton were able to hold their hands up to their failings and make drastic changes to their development schedules.  Why do you with such a loyal customer base have to be so arrogant and go to such lengths appear infallible to the consternation of those users that already know otherwise?

Hmmm. I'm quite sure you are reading far too much into my very short comments. I merely stated that we are supporting X1 at this point and can't go back and develop and test pre-X1 SONAR. It's a fact. I could provide false hope  and say otherwise or simply not address the question, but that wouldn't be very helpful to anyone.

I also said that X1 has had more resources dedicated to more released fixes and updates than any previous SONAR. That's also true. Anything else gleaned from that is injected on the part of the reader. Regardless of what you think about X1, the QuickFix program and a concerted attempt to provide ever more timely and targeted updates has been something Cakewalk has planned to do for some time. We are now beginning to see the fruit in the X1 product cycle and should continue to see this type of thing in the future. I said we feel good about it (we do) - and I suspect that customers appreciate ever more timely updates as well. Is some of that not true?

My point of posting was to say that it is the desire of Cakewalk to follow this model ever more-so and provide updates to more customers more often. Pretty basic point. I also wanted to be clear that we are not updating pre-X1 code - as this was a question. I thought a definitive answer might be nice.

My statements were merely a glimpse into what Cakewalk's plans are and how we feel about the SONAR update model moving forward. So to take offense to these statements of fact, or be insulted, and see them as spin is something I'm afraid I cannot grasp. What may I ask was I trying to "spin" in this case? I was answering the question as to whether there would be more updates to 8.5. To say it's somehow "courageous" to call my rather simple comments on the subject "spin" is also something quite beyond me and let's just say it's not a sentiment I share

If anything is "insulting" it might very well be to frame the customers that are stating they have big problems with X1 and that it is a "turkey" as the "largely intelligent user-base". What does that say about those that like X1 and get along with it? Are they the unintelligent group? Not that it matters a load of beans but I might also take exception to being referred to as "some marketing manager". I'm a musician and a user of DAWs since the mid-80's. I'm also a SONAR user and one that has worked at Cakewalk for the better part of a decade. Yes I work in Marketing but my role at Cakewalk is pretty wide and I always have the best interests of the SONAR user base at heart - and always have. To say otherwise might feel good but it wouldn't be the reality.

Just to clarify Brandon I did say I believed you were working hard to get back on track and your efforts are showing.  I didn't say either that X1b is a turkey, X1 however had it not recieved a good plucking wouldn't be looking like the aerodynamic animal it is beginning to become far away from the product as shipped originally.  You only have to glance down your own fix list to deduce that it wasn't of merchantable quality at the outset.

Now you can look at this from whatever of these viewpoints you choose and it won't change a thing between us, but is it that I walked into your store to sound off or do I generally love the product but have several genuine concerns about the product and the way I am percieved as a paying customer?

You decide.

Jonbouy

Now you can look at this from whatever of these viewpoints you choose and it won't change a thing between us, but is it that I walked into your store to sound off or do I generally love the product but have several genuine concerns about the product and the way I am percieved as a paying customer?

You decide.

I wholeheartedly believe it's the latter and I have no problem with people voicing their legitimate concerns. You've paid for the product and you have every right to voice how you feel about it. But I wanted to be clear about where I was coming from in my own statements.  My comments in this thread were not related to X1's stability nor were they to somehow congratulate Cakewalk. They were simply to comment on the level of support X1 and future versions are likely to receive versus pre-X1 versions. Unfortunately it seems they were, somewhat wildly, misconstreued.

...if it actually worked in the first place, it wouldn't have needed so much support or so many patches....

Jonbouy

They were simply to comment on the level of support X1 and future versions are likely to receive versus pre-X1 versions. Unfortunately it seems they were, somewhat wildly, misconstreued.

Brandon they weren't wildly misconstrued.

Your comment read:

SONAR X1 has probably been supported with more updates and reaching further out from initial launch than any previous incarnation. This is something we feel good about and an endeavor in which we are are continually striving to do better. It's desirable to Cakewalk and I'm sure it's desirable to users/customers (you folks!).

Another of you customers chose to translate that into language that better matched his experience with the product.

I will rewite this as "SONAR X1 has REQUIRED more support and more updates reaching further from initial launch than any previous incarnation.   This is something we could have avoided by not releasing beta code last december. We intend to continue to move in this direction for the benefit of all.

Neither stylistic approach to the same line is wrong or has been misconstrued.

I'm just wondering whether you are happy with your stylistic approach in the light of the same view expressed by one of your customers. Whether the priority is that the staff group feels good or that your customers do is the simple crux of it boiled down.  Certainly sometimes it reads like the latter to me as I elaborated on in my post about customer service later on, which you didn't quote me on.

Well my previous comments to you were intended as a bit of an olive branch, but sure let's go ahead and continue this.

Yes - most certianly - my initial comments were misconstrued - absolutely - and I don't see how that's even remotely debatable. It has nothing to do with a stylistic approach nor am I referring to what you quote above. I think we are obviously talking about two different things. How many more times must I clarify what i meant by "we feel good about this"?

I said we felt good about the approach of offering more, faster, and longer-term fixes for SONAR (a la QuickFix etc) and I was told that it was "chest-beating" and that I was "asking for praise for work we should be doing anyway". If that's not misconstrued then I don't  know what qualifies. I add "wildly" because my comments were taken as "insulting" to the point of aggravation and even after I clarified the intention and spirit behind my comments it seems to repeatedly fall on deaf ears. It's plain ridiculous to infer that I meant "we feel good about ourselves for doing this everyone so please praise us". I've been on this forum for over 8 years with over 3000 posts and I don't recall ever saying anything like that.

This is bordering on the absurd.