John

The code may have changed so much that its not an easy thing to do. I would then be a case of supporting an obsolete version. At what point would this be considered unproductive to the developer?

John


BTW thats about all the distention you'll get from me. So enjoy it while you can. LOL 

SteveStrummerUK

John


BTW thats about all the distention you'll get from me. So enjoy it while you can. LOL 

 
Are you sure you've got the right word there John


 

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

the QuickFix program and a concerted attempt to provide ever more timely and targeted updates has been something Cakewalk has planned to do for some time. We are now beginning to see the fruit in the X1 product cycle and should continue to see this type of thing in the future. I suspect that customers appreciate ever more timely updates as well. Is some of that not true?

lack of humility.

John


This is OT but let me say something here that may surprise some.

When CW embarked on the X program they had a wonderful opportunity to make the new GUI scalable in all its views. The PC issue of not showing all is modules on some displays is but one example.

A fully zoom-able GUI would have put X1 in a league all its own. It would have dealt with all the wishes users have had for years on this issue.  Instead CW used the same basic GUI model they had in all their other products all along. It could have simply been a matter of they knew how to use bitmaps and not vector maps for GUI objects.

None the less the time spent on the X1 GUI could have been spent on a scalable GUI that would present itself on any display with ease.

This was an opportunity I saw as a one time thing because the nature of how CW updates its programs. It was maybe 10 years that a new GUI was brought before from Pro Audio to the Sonar GUI. Now it will appear that another 10 years will elapse before a new opportunity will come.

Is this the worst thing that CW could have missed? No but it was too bad they didn't jump on this as a really new DAW or DAW 2.

That said I still like X1 very much and will support its continued improvement.

To see the beauty what I am talking about check out Melda Productions and look at how their VSTs all scale. Melda's web site.

As to patching old versions (Trying to get back OT) those asking for this may not understand that a fix in a new version may not work in an old version.  The code may have changed so much that its not an easy thing to do. I would then be a case of supporting an obsolete version. At what point would this be considered unproductive to the developer?

John


So a word is really so important but the idea expressed is not worth your time. Interesting. 

 
Negative to the end.

Beagle

Bub

paulo

... plus you always strike me as a good guy being reasonably honest ( I say reasonably because I'm guessing that you can't always say what you might want to for various reasons) .

Careful now, last time I said something like this I had to shake an angry dog off my leg. I hope he had his rabies shots.

Bub

Jonbouy

I've said what I wanted to say and my intent was to highlight that the company can certainly look like it is saving face on occasion at the expense of openess in the light of the genuine customer concerns, and I do think it is an area you can do better at.  That's all.

Careful, last time I said something like this I had to shake an angry dog off my leg.

No point in continuing to beat a dead horse.  I've already made my point and it's there for everyone to read.  Sorry if you felt like I was picking on you specificly.

To see the beauty what I am talking about check out Melda Productions and look at how their VSTs all scale. Melda's web site.

in day out stuff for a real engineer.

mike_mccue


I just bought this book about Sputnik At a store yesterday during a mid day break.:




I read some of it.



In the early chapters it describes the end of WWII when Wernher Von Braun and his team of rocket scientists surrendered to the USA forces.

The rocket scientists commandeered 3 trains with 100+ cars full of documents and parts and attempted to escape across Germany to the west.

The V2 rocket alone was described by 510,000 hand drawn mechanical drawings.

OK, using, a V2 rocket is a really bad example because of the history of that horrible device... it just happens that I read about it yesterday and thought about how those numbers apply to a topic such as being discussed here.

Software developers work in a rarefied place... a place that is so much easier to get things done than out in the REAL WORLD.

Software development culture (as in this is way bigger than Cakewalk) makes excuses for it's inability to meet the standards we expect of all other vocations. The apologists that excuse the lack of ethics seem to imply that software development is way more complicated than other practices.

I think the apologists either don't know what actually goes on out in the real world... or they are trying to make fools of us. I guess an optimist will assume the former... that's what I think is going on.

I think the popular use software industry is, as a matter of circumstance, often staffed by people that didn't come up in operations that make complex physical objects... and so, perhaps, it is natural to assume that physical objects are some how simple compared to "big ideas" like software.

Heck, it's math... every school boy knows that one of the pleasures of math is that you can actually arrive at an answer using math... which makes it a lot simpler to get a 100% on the test than with so many other studies.



A real life example: Back in 1945 510,000 hand drawn documents... each stuffed with info and calculations were required to make real life objects out of billions of atoms and molecules; a rocket that actually flew as intended.

That is day in day out stuff for a real engineer.



If a team sitting in a HVAC office in nice comfortable chairs can't nail down the details of a software product they are developing... it is not because their vocation is more complicated than all the other vocations. It's because they operate to a standard that isn't the norm out in the physical world.




Furthermore... the software vendors haven't fully appreciated the disconnect between the culture of excuse making and the needs of a retail outlet.

Retail outlets don't make a practice of selling products that often times cause the customer dismay.

It's a gamble to sell a customer a piece of software.

Retail outlets are especially reluctant to represent products that are not represented by a 100% satisfaction full refund return policy. In many states it's not legal to refuse a refund for a poorly functional product. When an international corporation declines to back up the retail outlet with a 100% satisfaction full refund policy... then the products are seldom stocked.

For example; my local Guitar Center is only going to *eat* a few refunds in the software section before it simply forgets to order more stock.

For example; my local mom and pop stores don't even consider stocking products from vendors that don't back up the satisfaction with a warranty. That's retail suicide.



It seems like software vendors feel they have somehow redefined the rules of the marketplace... yet are struggling to realize why they are so very poorly represented in the retail stores... which is a large portion of the marketplace.

It seems like software vendors can become distracted with dramatic attempts to seem pertinent in an effort to get on retail store display shelf while ignoring this most basic component required by the retail outlets.


A software vendor may get a buyer from some big box operation to place an order for some unprecedented number of pre season unit sales, but success in retail distribution will ultimately be measured unit by unit at the sales and service of individual units.

A product that engenders confidence with the store front retailer will have an easier time being successful... because it is more likely to sell through when the retailer chooses to promote the product rather than hide it on the shelf. The idea that a corporate big box may force feed more units than ever to it's retail outlets is only half a story... the actual retail outfit has to be confident that they can provide customers with satisfaction. If the face to face, store front sales force doesn't feel good about the situation the display product gets buried behind stuff that is easier and more fun to sell.

I buy my upgrade direct from Cakewalk... I'm just pointing this retail stuff out because it seems like Cakewalk is working real hard to be *popular* and seems to think that it is stuffing SONAR with all the features required to get a wholesale buyers attention in an effort to get achieve greater representation on the sales floor.



Here's a question:

Which of these two questions do you think most retail customers prioritize when standing at a retail display of music software?

1) Does this thing have ProChannel?
or
2) What am I going to do if this doesn't work well when I get home? 






Brandon.... you have my highest respects. Your guidance and moderation here at the thread is noble, noteworthy and very much appreciated.

I can imagine how you feel at the moment... so no need to muster a reply...  it's important to me that I send my respects to you and all the Cakewalk individuals hard at work.

Maybe we can have some fun when we meet on the other side of this.

very best,
mike






editing spelling

Heck, it's math... every school boy knows that one of the pleasures of math is that you can actually arrive at an answer using math... which makes it a lot simpler to get a 100% on the test than with so many other studies.