FastBikerBoy
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/22 02:14:45
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@Droddery.....There certainly seems to be some misunderstanding going on here. I haven't denied that the use of such tools is widespread at all, I'd say it's common place.
What they don't do though is turn some completley talentless halfwit into a virtuoso like you seem to be claiming.
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/22 03:36:55
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droddey is simply in his own hate filled world. if katy Perry is the best he can do, his silly rant gets even sillier. Katy is a much better singer than Britney , but you are still talking about a bubblegum pop star. You keep diving deep in a sea of irrelevancy that makes your argument even weaker. and clearly a bad case of much ado about nothing. Engineers process her voice because they can, not because it is critical to her success. I will go out on a limb and say she is a better singer than many megastars that succeeded just fine with little singing ability and prior to autotune. If you showed me that the Boston SYmphony was "cheating" as you call it or even some singer actually popular mostly on the strength of being known as an outstanding singer than maybe you have a point, but you keep trying to convince us that people who's popularity is not based on the perfection of their singing are somehow cheating because the engineers who work on their record decided to do some extra processing so they can make themselves sound like geniuses on message boards. Very few artists have the pull to actually dictate the sound engineering process , so it would nto be them cheating anyway.
Also has pointed out, you have trouble answering direct questions, even ones where you yourself have thrown out statements introducing the subject. You said their are just tons of videos on youtube teaching people how to basically perform magic. I see a lot of auto-tunene tutorials when i search and the vast majority center around "the t-pain effect". ironically, he occasionally sings without the autotune live. Not a great singer but nobody seems to care.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/22 04:36:21
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droddey
It's just not the same. There's a difference between the very less than optimal circumstances of a live situation causing performances to be less technically correct than they can be in the much more controlled studio situation. Long before there were all these modern corrective tools studio albums sounded better for that incredibly obvious reason. That's not what is being discussed here, clearly. We are talking about a album that the artist cannot actually have done. Not that someone did ten takes and kept the best one, which is a fairly common way to get optimal performances in the studio. But that the performance is edited, gridded, tuned, and highly automated, turning a 'decent' singer performance into a perfect pitch performance. It just isn't the same thing.
So you're saying that the engineer/producers of modern recordings are using the tools at their disposal to make a good a recording as possible?  Now there's a concept that may catch on, I'm surprised no one thought of it before though. Oh hang on................
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/22 06:42:58
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They are supposed to use them?
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foxwolfen
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/26 05:17:09
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Its like magic. If the tools of the trade allow me a moment of others asking: "How did he do that?" then I have done my job as an engineer. Of course its illusion, all good magic is. And that is what makes sound engineering entertaining for both producer and consumer.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/26 05:27:23
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If you don't scratch your songs onto shellac cylinders with your fingernails, then you're a charlatan. Haven't you learned anything from this thread?
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foxwolfen
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 16:20:16
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LOL - I think Dean made some very valid points that got lost in the gnawing of teeth and angst his thoughts provoked. I only got halfway through the thread as the arguments were getting circular, but I do agree that I often feel, I dunno, lied to, when I hear overly corrected productions by talentless hacks like T-Pain. But that is part of our world... there is "talent" then there is the "entertainment biz"... the two are not always inclusive, and entertainment is what pays the bills.
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 18:25:26
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foxwolfen, although you come off much nicer than droddey, the choice of example still creates a very weak argument. Maybe you can explain it better than he did. How do you feel lied to when listening to T-pain? His material is what it is and clearly over-processed for effect. I doubt anyone thinks his voice sounds liek that anymore than anyone thought Peter Frampton's voice sounded like his did when he used a talkbox in the 70's. T-pain does not hide the fact he is using an effect and has never claimed to be a great singer. If anything using T-pain as an example illustrates the opposite of droddey's argument. Today's songs are highly processed and everyone knows it. My kids, cousins and anyone else i can think of under the age of 25 is very aware of what autotune is and could simply care less. To them it is no different than Peter Frampton in the 70's or Roger Troutman in the 80's, a musical fad that will come and go. None have any illusion that T-pain is a great singer. It's not like the effect even transforms him into a great singer. It just transforms his voice into a gimmicky processed sound that is popular for the moment. Like droddey, the only thing using him as an example supports is the obvious dislike of T-pain's songs. I don't like them either but he is making an honest living.
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 18:33:50
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sidenote- i hate t-pain songs and i await the passing of the autotune effect fad to pass, but I'm not sure I will let my personal dislike of his music lead me to believe he is a "talentless hack". His talent may not be what is considered classical music or vocal talent, but it can be argued that it is a talent of sorts. Something can be said for his ability to be continually successful. It's not his looks. At the very least he has a unique understanding of how to get the most out of a gimmick many attempt but don't reach the same level of success. "Talent" is a very subjective term that tends to run sideways once removed from the dictionary definition of such. Talent is defined as 1)a special natural ability or aptitude. 2)A capacity for achievement or success. The 1st one is debatable, but he certainly qualifies under the second heading. His music is still **** to me, but everybody has their preferences.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 19:16:46
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foxwolfen
LOL - I think Dean made some very valid points that got lost in the gnawing of teeth and angst his thoughts provoked. I only got halfway through the thread as the arguments were getting circular, but I do agree that I often feel, I dunno, lied to, when I hear overly corrected productions by talentless hacks like T-Pain. But that is part of our world... there is "talent" then there is the "entertainment biz"... the two are not always inclusive, and entertainment is what pays the bills. Hey dub, I thnk fox DID explain it in his post here to be honest. When he mentions "the entertainment business" I personally think that's all that needs to be said. We have people that can perform like maniacs on their instruments etc and people that entertain in different ways. Then of course we have people that can do both at once. The industry allows people choices, ya know? The purists may not be down with those artists that entertain more than perform instruments like pro's. I think the sad thing is, the purists are upset that the majority of listeners/buyers/supporters are buying more of the hyped up "less performed" artistry than those who truly DO perform as seasoned musicians. I think it depends on what school you come from. Think about this for a second bro. Some of us have practiced for over 20 years to get decent at our instruments. We know we will never be stars but we pride ourselves on the little accomplishments we've made. We're happy to be able to pick up a guitar or bass or sing, play piano or drums, and do it without something totally doing it for us. For most of our lives, we have surrounded ourselves with like-minded people who share our views. When you see this new stuff getting all the acclaim it gets and really know what's going on, it's very hard to swallow at first. Some people NEVER swallow it or accept it. I think it's understandable and acceptable to be in that frame of mind. However, I also think some of these new tools can be beneficial to all of us and can save time in certain situations. The other side of the coin is this...I think it's a plus to respect what someone does to make a buck because it's not easy. Anyone who can find their niche in an economy like this and be successful is worthy of praise because let's be honest...no one has had their arms twisted to buy anything. You either win people over with whatever it is you do, or you don't, ya know? Take a guy like me for example. I was brought up in a world where singers were applauded because they could really sing. I grew up on Zep, Queen, Foreigner, CSR, Beatles, Journey, Styx, YES, Rush, and some of those 80's metal bands where the singers were definitely good with opera type vocals. Not to mention, though there was a bit too much guitar shredding in the 80's, those dudes could play which is what I learned from as a guitarist. Keeping all that in mind as well as these bands fueling my fire, to hear something that is being manufactured that isn't really talent in the performance area....this can really bother someone like me who has spent a majority of my life trying to be good at my instruments. That said, I have no problems with accepting this new form of art. I don't particularly care fo it, but I DO welcome the tools and accept it for what it is. The other thing I keep beating myself up about is...who is the smarter artist...a guy like me that spent a lifetime being decent at playing and writing, or the guy that takes the short cut and becomes a star in his 20's? LOL!!!! As much as it pains me to say that, I can't blame a guy for doing what needs to be done to make a buck. I salute anyone that can win over enough people to survive doing this and am envious that it wasn't in the cards for me. At the end of the day, it's like fox says...it IS and always will be, the entertainment business. However one chooses to entertain is up to them. If people buy into it and enjoy it, more power to all of them. If it makes them happy, we're right where we want to be even if some of us may not be down with it. That's just my take though. :) -Danny
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 19:23:03
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I'm not sure there's anything new here, though. Taking the 80s for example, yeah, really technically accomplished bands of great singers and players were big, but so was synth pop and rap. And now, sure you might have T-Pain on the one hand, but you also have Beyonce and Adele on the other. The thing that I can't get with about droddey's argument is his suggestion that everything has gone to hell and nobody is interested in good performers any more, which just isn't true. There is, as always, a broad spectrum of stuff capturing the popular imagination, some of it very performance oriented, some not.
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:00:35
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Danny, you make a lot of great posts here and I can see your point completely. I just think it's a completely different point than what droddey was making. The implication..no...the accusation is that today's artists are somehow cheating by using autotune and such to trick people into thinking they can sing. THAT is what he did not explain. When you hear a T-pain song do you really think the industry is trying to convince us he can sing? I'm askign that as a serious question because that to me is one of the criuxes of this discussion. I would say no, T-pain and the industry has no illusions that he can sing and they make no attempt to convince us otherwise. That flys in the face of the idea that there is a mass deception going on. Somehow dislike of pop trends is being blamed on technology as if technology is the reason the style of music of yesteryear is no longer envogue.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:04:50
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I'd agree with that also, John T. I think the problem is....we're seeing a different type of artist and to be honest, most of them are all about singing or some sort of sex appeal. It's almost like now, talented bands get thrown to the side. If you're not a good looking kid with abbs that is appealing, it matters not if you may be a guitar virtuoso or you have an entire band that may play like YES or Rush.
Bands with musicality don't get any points today or are accepted by less people because they just never get exploited. Even the rock stations won't support them. You hear the same old Nickelback stuff...which I DO enjoy, but sometimes it's nice to appreciate an entire band that has a bit of a muso personality. These days it's all about a 3:30 song with a hook, and God help you if you try to do anything musical within your band without being labeled as something or accused of over-playing.
It's like the spectrum of what gets marketed is too one-dimensional, ya know what I mean? For example, when I get some of the kids in my studio and we start talking about guitar and soloing, they don't even know extreme soloing existed. Once they hear it, they are blown away by it. I'm just using that as an example...but my point is, the deep, dark musicality we once heard is no longer there. Substance in music has fallen way off the charts and this is a bit sad for those of us who DO enjoy a little musicality in our listening experience.
Another example, Rush's new album is doing great right now. I believe it was #2 on the charts or something last week. If a band came out today that had a Rush influence shopped a deal, they'd probable be rejected. But because Rush has been around so long and have a bit of a following, it's doing well. Which is also proof that "if you play it and expoint it, people will come." But that's the problem..not enough different music is being pushed...so the true musos's suffer or get a bad name when in reality, if someone would just push it, it would do well as long as the album is good, know what I mean?
We're just stuck in a rut of sex appeal, singing and marketing to one general audience where people in their 40's on up have nothing they would like showing up on air or being considered "popular". That part, I think is sad because people 40+ would buy music too if they just had something worth spending their money on. :)
-Danny
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:09:42
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to clarify, by not envogue i mean that it is not the current standard for pop. Artists as far removed from Today's pop such as Tony Bennet ( who still puts on a great show) have had number one albums. Also, genres are continually being recycled and elements borrowed.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:11:57
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I think that there's loads of musically sophisticated stuff around. What I think happens to a lot of older people is that they stop following the music press as avidly, don't get out and about to hear new bands as much as maybe they used to, and start only encountering new stuff through mainstream radio. Which has *always* been a terrible way to find new music.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:13:35
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dubdisciple
Danny, you make a lot of great posts here and I can see your point completely. I just think it's a completely different point than what droddey was making. The implication..no...the accusation is that today's artists are somehow cheating by using autotune and such to trick people into thinking they can sing. THAT is what he did not explain. When you hear a T-pain song do you really think the industry is trying to convince us he can sing? I'm askign that as a serious question because that to me is one of the criuxes of this discussion. I would say no, T-pain and the industry has no illusions that he can sing and they make no attempt to convince us otherwise. That flys in the face of the idea that there is a mass deception going on. Somehow dislike of pop trends is being blamed on technology as if technology is the reason the style of music of yesteryear is no longer envogue.
I'd agree with you there, dub. I don;t consider anything "cheating" if THAT is "your thing". I could be considered a cheater myself. I tune my guitars to an open chord. I can barely play a guitar tuned in standard tuning. I can make a full barre chord with one finger. In MY mind, I felt "work smarter, not harder. If I can make a chord with one finger, that allows the other 3 to dance around within that chord." Sometimes we use the tools we have that make us what we are. They can add personality...and I'm all for that. But my point was, it's also easy to see how some could feel "cheated" in certain situations when they go through the pains of hell to really study their art and their craft to achieve the fun part of being a musician. See that's the thing for me...the fun part is the challenge. The artists using tools that make them sound better than they are are faced with other challenges I'm sure. Though I don't take the stance that droddey took on this, I must admit that using these tools to the extreme does sort of bother me in a way. But as you said, it's not like the people using them are claiming to be the best at anything. This is just what they used to catapult them to where they needed to be. Good for them I say. You know what you're getting out of the gate with those artists and to me, it's perfectly acceptable if that's their style. Now if someone like Steve Perry, Robert Plant or David Coverdale put out an album using auto-tune, yeah brother...I'd feel more than cheated...I'd probably hang myself. :) -Danny
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:24:55
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John T
I think that there's loads of musically sophisticated stuff around. What I think happens to a lot of older people is that they stop following the music press as avidly, don't get out and about to hear new bands as much as maybe they used to, and start only encountering new stuff through mainstream radio. Which has *always* been a terrible way to find new music.
+100 there mate. After we graduate high school or college, that real thing called life kicks in and music isn't the focal point of life anymore. Concert going sort of drops off a bit, wives, husbands, kids, working more than one job...it all plays a role for sure. And like you say, radio sure is a terrible way to find new music. But that said, it still to me, poses a bit of a problem as to what gets pushed. I think if you're a rock station, everything rock should be pushed...not just the in things. I still say if they play it, people will come. :) -Danny
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:44:08
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I think there's also this misconception that pop artists somehow have an easier road to travel than their counterparts did years ago and nothing could be farther from the truth. record labels are not nearly as mentoring in their artists development. In fact, grammy winning artists have been dropped by their labels for "only' going gold with their record sales. Many of the big names in pop toiled practically anonymously for years before hitting it big. I first heard Kanye West back in 1994. Eminem hit paydirt at a relatively late age for a rapper as well. It's still a hard business that does not always reward who is most talented but usually who knows who.
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michaelhanson
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:54:00
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The world has just changed. If I had to guess, there is more music being made today, then ever before. With the ease of technology, especially in home recording, music is being recorded every where. If you go into a Guitar Center, there are as many people in the Recording/ Mic/ Monitors section as there are playing guitars....maybe more. People are n't buying real piano's these days, they buy electric pianos and synthasizers, they have more flexability and are lighter. Check out the youngsters playing guitar amps, they spend all of their time on the Line 6 amps and digital effects. Us old guys and our tube amps have become a minority. I kind of agree with Danny here, in that if I was a young guy and I wanted to make it in the music biz these days, I would use what ever tools I had a my disposal. I would also need to keep one shoe on being current and one shoe on being innovative. But see, it does n't really matter to me these days whether or not I am "current" in what I do. I do what I like and if others like it, well great. It's a bit like the old blues players that learned their craft and spent their lives religiously doing the music that they loved. A lot of people never liked it or even really got it. They grew old and were never famous; then suddenly, out of the blue (no pun intended), they are noticed for their craft. It may have never happened for some of them; but the point was that they were doing what they loved to do. I fully believe that most of the music buying public is pretty aware of who can play, who can sing, and what tools are being used to enhance the skills of those that can't do either. I just don't think they care. They vote with their money....same as it always has been. Heck, some record mogul once told the Beatles that guitar playing bands were on their way out. Did n't seem to stop them from doing what they loved and changing the industry. Of course, they were incredibly talented too. And maybe that is just the thing, if you are truly talented, you will find a way to make music with what ever tools you have at your disposal. What would have Mozart or Bach done with the tools we have today. Would they have said they were not going to use them. Or would they have created even more music than they did in the day, because the tools were that much better? I don't know.
post edited by MakeShift - 2012/06/27 21:05:47
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 20:56:28
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dubdisciple
I think there's also this misconception that pop artists somehow have an easier road to travel than their counterparts did years ago and nothing could be farther from the truth. record labels are not nearly as mentoring in their artists development. In fact, grammy winning artists have been dropped by their labels for "only' going gold with their record sales. Many of the big names in pop toiled practically anonymously for years before hitting it big. I first heard Kanye West back in 1994. Eminem hit paydirt at a relatively late age for a rapper as well. It's still a hard business that does not always reward who is most talented but usually who knows who.
Yeah, not to mention...have ya ever tried to dance and sing like some of them do at the same time? Whew...that right there is a job all in its own! At the end of the day dub, I think it's really the same old repeating process of aging while time goes on. Like our parents would tell us "that's not real music" we that asre getting older, are saying the same thing. No one likes to see their genre or personal choice of music that once was "the in thing" pushed to the side for stuff that isn't as appealing. This will always ruffle a person's feathers even in you do accept the newer stuff. I accept it, I listen to it, and I appreciate it though it is not my thing....but I'd be lying to you if I said "I'm glad the music I love is dead and dated". LOL! :) -Danny
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 21:07:49
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MakeShift
The world has just changed. If I had to guess, there is more music being made today, then ever before. With the ease of technology, especially in home recording, music is being recorded every where. If you go into a Guitar Center, there are as many people in the Recording/ Mic/ Monitors section as there are playing guitars....maybe more.
People are n't buying real piano's these days, they buy electric pianos and synthasizers, they have more flexability and are lighter. Check out the youngsters playing guitar amps, they spend all of their time on the Line 6 amps and digital effects. Us old guys and our tube amps have become a minority.
I kind of agree with Danny here, in that if I was a young guy and I wanted to make it in the music biz these days, I would use what ever tools I had a my disposal. I would also need to keep one shoe on being current and one shoe on being innovative. But see, it does n't really matter to me these days whether or not I am "current" in what I do. I do what I like and if others like it, well great. It's a bit like the old blues players that learned their craft and spent their lives religiously doing the music that they loved. A lot of people never liked it or even really got it. They grew old and were never famous; then suddenly, out of the blue (no pun intended), they are noticed for their craft. It may have never happened for some of them; but the point was that they were doing what they loved to do.
I fully believe that most of the music buying public is pretty aware of who can play, who can sing, and what tools are being used to enhance the skills of those that can't do either. I just don't think they care. They vote with their money....same as it always has been. Heck, some record mogul once told the Beatles that guitar playing bands were on their way out. Did n't seem to stop them from doing what they loved and changing the industry.
Well said Mike. Especially the amps thing. People today don't have the time or the patience to grab a tube amp and tweak it until it sounds like God himself touched the amp. Everything is about time being of the essence. I got news for you...I'm starting to feel the same way. Though I love tube amps, I have found that I always have to try and run several things into that tube amp with lots of trial and error to get it where I want it. I love the tube voicing part of it, but some of the other elements in getting a good sound from a tube amp can be annoying. I do of course have a few great tube amps that I can plug right into and get good sound...but they took years to find for me or...years of waiting for them to be created. Why screw with a mic when you can get a good enough DI sound or a cab impulse? Some people don't have the time nor do they have the desire. Why sing a vocal line all through the song when you can sing the chorus once and copy and paste it? Why use a real amp when you can run a DI and have several choices to use with that DI track? I'm not saying these methods are for everyone, but they can be helpful in certain situations. Not only that but people have much shorter attention spans today. If they can track something quick that sounds good, why bother going any crazier? If you get a record deal, they will only re-record you anyway. LOL! At the end of the day, we as musicians and producers/engineers will always hear things differently and there will be things that matter only to us that the normal people that are not into this as much will just totally never enjoy as we do. They could care less how great we play guitar, what cool arps we used, legato, how much money went into our tones, what studio gear we have or even how great the end result is. If they like it, they like it no matter what it sounds like, ya know? That's actually a good thing really if you push all of the personal bias to the side. Anyone can make music and possibly be accepted. Even if you are a muso, your challenge is to create something that can be enjoyed by someone that may not be a technical music major if you want to see huge success from it. The idea now with music is to establish yourself as doing what you like. If people like it, cool...if they don't and YOU like it, that's all that matters really. :) On that note...sheesh, I need to get some work done. LOL! -Danny
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 21:16:35
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Makeshift makes a good point that music purists tend to overlook; most musicians used what was available to them. It sucks in some ways that acoustic piano sales are down, but the ability to play "piano' is more available than ever. Would one rather live in a world where only those with the financial means to buy and maintain a piano have the opportunity to play or a world where more have the opportunity even if it's not quite the same? Debatable for sure. On the bright side, i have come across very impressive kids who manage to embrace new technology yet have appreciation for things long before their time.
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michaelhanson
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/27 21:19:31
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Especially the amps thing. People today don't have the time or the patience to grab a tube amp and tweak it until it sounds like God himself touched the amp. Everything is about time being of the essence. I got news for you...I'm starting to feel the same way. I am right there at this point. I am tired of dealing with tubes; I only hang on for the tone and feel. Some of the software is so good now, that in recordings, I can barely tell the difference. I have heard that the Fractal Axe (spelling?) stuff is so close, that it is uncanny. As soon as the two worlds cross paths and the differences are too little to be heard and felt, on the live equipment, I am probably done with tubes. I keep forgetting that you are probably just starting your day, Danny. Yes, we are probably tempting you away from your work.
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foxwolfen
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/28 00:55:32
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Some good points here, but if I may speak for Dean, I think he was trying to point out that there is less "music" in the "biz" today than used to be. Much of what we hear is not about the skills of a musician, a singer, or songwriter, but the skills of the producer and engineer. That is not to say there are not some insanely talented artists out there. I think Lana Del Ray has an amazing voice, as does Kimbra.
Two very successful producers of the last decade have come from both sides of the argument. Pharell Williams and Timbaland. Pharell has great talent as a musician and his band was a real band. He produced some sexy and exotic songs by folks like Justin Timberlake (who is both a great singer and great entertainer IMO). Timbaland on the other hand is a producer first. His trade is cut and paste. He also produced Timberlake, and sold quite a few more records for him than did Pharell.
Who is better? Musically, Pharell is. But this is entertainment, so he who sells more albums and puts more bums in stadium seats is the better.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/28 02:51:51
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foxwolfen, i would not argue with any of what you said, but what dean said was just ranting, hateful drivel that was not even near what you said even in the best of paraphrase universes. he was not metaphorical or abstract in any way. If he had said something along those lines (which has been said many times on this forum to thundering applause), he would have likely received a better response. He made very direct and over the top claims that he could not backup.
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foxwolfen
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/28 04:57:22
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Dean has generally been a rational and objective fellow here. The thing of it is, if a person wants to find a way to pick apart an argument, they can. While I agree with most of the counter-arguments made, I feel they were generally nit picking while ignoring the underlaying intent. I do not fault Dean for frustrated replies.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/28 05:13:09
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We're just stuck in a rut of sex appeal, singing and marketing to one general audience where people in their 40's on up have nothing they would like showing up on air or being considered "popular". That part, I think is sad because people 40+ would buy music too if they just had something worth spending their money on. :) It might come as no shock to you Danny, or anyone else, but I've only bought one music CD this year (I don't do downloads or mp3's). I'll give you a clue about what I bought - it begins and ends with a 'D'
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/28 05:46:33
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foxwolfen
Dean has generally been a rational and objective fellow here. The thing of it is, if a person wants to find a way to pick apart an argument, they can. While I agree with most of the counter-arguments made, I feel they were generally nit picking while ignoring the underlaying intent. I do not fault Dean for frustrated replies.
That's how I feel as well. I think everyone has had some great points in this thread. Some, more passionate than others to where maybe that passion could have gotten the best of them. I know how that can be though as it happens to me all the time. And we all know how easy it is for words to get mangled into an arguement. Lots of opinions here, but quite a bit of truth as well in all of them. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Danny Danzi
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/28 05:50:28
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Bristol_Jonesey
We're just stuck in a rut of sex appeal, singing and marketing to one general audience where people in their 40's on up have nothing they would like showing up on air or being considered "popular". That part, I think is sad because people 40+ would buy music too if they just had something worth spending their money on. :)
It might come as no shock to you Danny, or anyone else, but I've only bought one music CD this year (I don't do downloads or mp3's).
I'll give you a clue about what I bought - it begins and ends with a 'D'
I'm in the same boat, Jonesey! The last CD I bought was Van Halen with Gary Cherone singing on it. The last digital media album I bought was this year...notnat's album from this forum. Most things I listen to are on Youtube or if a friend shares something with me. The record labels I deal with send me loads of stuff each month as well, so that's a cool fringe benefit to have. Some bands I never even heard of, others are well known. It's a nice mixture of both and I always look forward to when that package comes through in the mail. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/28 05:54:55
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Some great points here. The only CD I ended up getting, so far this year was Ego Falls recent one...
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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