John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:48:18
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Not at all, that's exactly what I think, in fact. What I dislike about droddey's argument is that I think it's a bit misanthropic on the one hand, and a bit anti-art on the other. People are always creating art in whatever circumstances they are in, with whatever means the have available, and I think the idea that current circumstances and means make current art somehow dishonest and invalid frankly objectionable and ignorant. He's merrily writing off pretty much everyone. Not simply as stuff he's not interested in, which would be fair enough, if a bit unadventurous. But rather as stuff that's invalid, dishonest, and contemptible. He and the horse he rode in on can go and take ride on that, frankly.
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dubdisciple
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:52:03
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"The idea that music reached some unsurpassed peak in the mid 70s - some 40 years ago - is one on which we're very unlikely to reach agreement. The idea that were there such a peak, bloody Animals would represent it, is laughable." Again, I agree fully. I have been guilty of giving my kids the "they can't touch [fill in an artist]" and then usually i catch myself because I realize that it is one of the most subjective topics topped only by religion and politics. We like the music we grew up with because it's the music we grew up with. There are very few musical pieces I have ever heard that I could say NOBODY else could play that. In art of all kind we give credit, as we should, to people for doing things first..or at least first to popularize. An decent artist could paint a stroke for stroke version of the Mona Lisa that only an expert could distinguish from the original. That same artist could likely do things Da Vinci couldn't, yet that artist is unlikely to be seen as being as great as Da Vinci. Youth today simply have the advantage of being able to soak up all that come before them and the benefits of things that could not be created in the past. It's the same way in sports. Athletes today are simply bigger, stronger and faster. As great as Jesse Owens was, his world record in the long jump would be beaten regularly by high schoolers today. We measure greatness compared to contemporaries and somehow forget that as we age. We feel the need to somehow make our idols greater than they actually were.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:57:03
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"as great" is a weird way to look at art anyway. We're not going to surpass Beethoven, or Hendrix, or whoever. That's not how art works. And euqally, those things aren't untouchable. It's not like rocket design, or microchip manufacturing, and it doesn't "improve" linearly in that way. Culture mainly expands rather than progresses, I think. New stuff adds to the richness of what we have.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:57:49
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Which makes the one and only truly pointless pursuit in art to be trying to emulate or equate to what's gone before.
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:26:18
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I don't really care if someone has lived in a van or anything. I'm talking more about not bothering to learn to play, but acting like you can by editing everything out the wazoo. And, to get back to a previous comment questioning who I'm talking about. Well, that's the problem isn't it?
If you listen to producers and mixers talking, it's clear that it's VERY widespread. And I don't mean just Auto-tune and things like Audiosnap. But extensive hand editing, extensive comping of parts down the word, extensive volume and EQ automation, using tools to exactly align background vocals to the lead vocal. and on and on.
And yet, hardly anyone ever admits that these things were done on their albums? And the folks above aren't going to say who they were doing it to, because they want to get paid. If they go talking about that stuff in public and naming names, they may not be the name on that person's album next time.
That's really the problem, to me. We have this music which is inhumanly polished, clearly beyond the abilities of the people involved to actually perform them. And yet no one admits doing it. So I can't say, so and so used a lot of corrective stuff on his or her album, because no one would admit it. But if you bother to look into it, you'd know how much it's being done.
That's the hypocracy that bothers me. It's just like the loudness war. People now think that they can't put out an album (at least in a lot of genres) that has real human performances, just like people think that they can put out an album that isn't crushed to crap, because it won't be competitive. I think it's just hypocritical and isn't conducive to honesty in music.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:28:18
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John T
"as great" is a weird way to look at art anyway. We're not going to surpass Beethoven, or Hendrix, or whoever. That's not how art works. And euqally, those things aren't untouchable. It's not like rocket design, or microchip manufacturing, and it doesn't "improve" linearly in that way. Culture mainly expands rather than progresses, I think. New stuff adds to the richness of what we have.
Wisdom for sure.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:31:49
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Yes, the fact that you can't say who you're talking about is indeed the problem.
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:39:43
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dubdisciple
Again, I agree fully. I have been guilty of giving my kids the "they can't touch [fill in an artist]" and then usually i catch myself because I realize that it is one of the most subjective topics topped only by religion and politics. We like the music we grew up with because it's the music we grew up with. There are very few musical pieces I have ever heard that I could say NOBODY else could play that. In art of all kind we give credit, as we should, to people for doing things first..or at least first to popularize. An decent artist could paint a stroke for stroke version of the Mona Lisa that only an expert could distinguish from the original. That same artist could likely do things Da Vinci couldn't, yet that artist is unlikely to be seen as being as great as Da Vinci. Youth today simply have the advantage of being able to soak up all that come before them and the benefits of things that could not be created in the past. It's the same way in sports. Athletes today are simply bigger, stronger and faster. As great as Jesse Owens was, his world record in the long jump would be beaten regularly by high schoolers today. We measure greatness compared to contemporaries and somehow forget that as we age. We feel the need to somehow make our idols greater than they actually were.
Woh, there... Don't try to paint me as some old fogie stuck in the past. I'm far from it. Pink Floyd was actually before my time, not of my time, as were the Beatles even more so. But I love music well until the late 90s, but then it began getting pretty damn shallow, at least in the popular realm. I was heading towards 40 when the 90s ended, and I loved most of what was going on. Most of my collection is basically either 60s/70s or 90s. There was a lot more honesty in the music of the 90s. Not that that's particularly suprising. Kids don't like music because of what it is, they like it because of what it isn't, for the most part. They want something different than what came before. The 80s were mostly the opposite of the 70s, and the 90s went back the other way to more back to basics, more raw emotion, as a reaction against the very over synthy, overly reverbed 80s. Not that everything sucks or is great in any decade obviously. So it's pretty much expected that we'd get a swing back towards Justin Bieber and Gaga and so forth, after a decade of Grunge and such. I wish it didn't happen but it's the ongoing cycle. Perhaps my big problem with it is that it happened to coincide with the arrival in a big way of the tools of fakery. So you have a sort of perfect storm. A decade on the fluff side of the wheel (in the popular realm I mean), the destruction of the industry by theft which means that if you want to make it you better be able to sell perfume or cars or something, and the arrival of digital tools to allow people to pretend they are better than they are, and an era in which that's not even seen as questionable to do so because integrity isn't cool at the moment. So it all comes out about as far to the other side of what I consider right as possible. There's a lot of stuff out there I like of course. But it'll never get close to the mainstream. Whereas, in the 90s, lots of stuff I liked was in the mainstream. Smashing Pumpkins, No Doubt, System of a Down, Radiohead, Portishead, Blues Traveler, Natalie Merchant/Imbuglia, Joan Osborne, Blur, Garbage, Beck, Bjork, and on and on.
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:44:47
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I still don't get the tools of fakery part. If you can't write or produce music worth listening to, how the beep are those 'tools of fakery' going to help? They won't. Is there really a 'soundgooderizer' or 'Turd Polisher' out there that I missed?
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:45:05
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John T
Yes, the fact that you can't say who you're talking about is indeed the problem.
If by that you are trying to imply that I'm wrong and it's not happening, then you are fooling yourself. That's like claiming that there's no theft because you can't personally catch all the people who are doing it. The fact that you can't prove who is stealing things doesn't mean that things aren't disappearing.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:47:00
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droddey
dubdisciple
Again, I agree fully. I have been guilty of giving my kids the "they can't touch [fill in an artist]" and then usually i catch myself because I realize that it is one of the most subjective topics topped only by religion and politics. We like the music we grew up with because it's the music we grew up with. There are very few musical pieces I have ever heard that I could say NOBODY else could play that. In art of all kind we give credit, as we should, to people for doing things first..or at least first to popularize. An decent artist could paint a stroke for stroke version of the Mona Lisa that only an expert could distinguish from the original. That same artist could likely do things Da Vinci couldn't, yet that artist is unlikely to be seen as being as great as Da Vinci. Youth today simply have the advantage of being able to soak up all that come before them and the benefits of things that could not be created in the past. It's the same way in sports. Athletes today are simply bigger, stronger and faster. As great as Jesse Owens was, his world record in the long jump would be beaten regularly by high schoolers today. We measure greatness compared to contemporaries and somehow forget that as we age. We feel the need to somehow make our idols greater than they actually were.
Woh, there... Don't try to paint me as some old fogie stuck in the past. I'm far from it. Pink Floyd was actually before my time, not of my time, as were the Beatles even more so. But I love music well until the late 90s, but then it began getting pretty damn shallow, at least in the popular realm. I was heading towards 40 when the 90s ended, and I loved most of what was going on. Most of my collection is basically either 60s/70s or 90s. There was a lot more honesty in the music of the 90s.
Not that that's particularly suprising. Kids don't like music because of what it is, they like it because of what it isn't, for the most part. They want something different than what came before. The 80s were mostly the opposite of the 70s, and the 90s went back the other way to more back to basics, more raw emotion, as a reaction against the very over synthy, overly reverbed 80s. Not that everything sucks or is great in any decade obviously.
So it's pretty much expected that we'd get a swing back towards Justin Bieber and Gaga and so forth, after a decade of Grunge and such. I wish it didn't happen but it's the ongoing cycle. Perhaps my big problem with it is that it happened to coincide with the arrival in a big way of the tools of fakery. So you have a sort of perfect storm. A decade on the fluff side of the wheel (in the popular realm I mean), the destruction of the industry by theft which means that if you want to make it you better be able to sell perfume or cars or something, and the arrival of digital tools to allow people to pretend they are better than they are, and an era in which that's not even seen as questionable to do so because integrity isn't cool at the moment.
So it all comes out about as far to the other side of what I consider right as possible. There's a lot of stuff out there I like of course. But it'll never get close to the mainstream. Whereas, in the 90s, lots of stuff I liked was in the mainstream. Smashing Pumpkins, No Doubt, System of a Down, Radiohead, Portishead, Blues Traveler, Natalie Merchant/Imbuglia, Joan Osborne, Blur, Garbage, Beck, Bjork, and on and on.
 
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 22:53:40
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trimph1
I still don't get the tools of fakery part. If you can't write or produce music worth listening to, how the beep are those 'tools of fakery' going to help? They won't. Is there really a 'soundgooderizer' or 'Turd Polisher' out there that I missed?
Well yes, there is. They are all in that list I made up there already. The comping tools, the microsecond long process of doing a cross fade, the tools to line up vocals, the abiltiy to easily automate down to the word via a drawable envelope. Will these things help you write a good song? No, they won't. But how important these days is artists writing their own songs in the popular mainstream? How often is it these days that a producer (or production team) creates the song or contributes very heavily to the song, and then the artist's performance is massages into seeming perfection. And, even if they do write good songs, that doesn't mean that they can perform them well with out a lot of help, from what I've seen. Supposedly what's her name, ummm.... the young female singer whose name I'm completely blanking on... oh, Taylor Swift. Apparently she does write her own songs mostly, and I'll give her credit for that. But so many discussions come up about her really off performances on shows. I've not heard a lot of her records but I'm doubting she sounds horrible on them. So how does one explain the difference? She's hugely popular, so obviously something is polishing her into gold on a large scale. Am I wrong and she's really a very good vocalist and I've just seen only the bad reports? Everyone has off nights, equipment problems, etc... but it seems to come up a lot with her.
post edited by droddey - 2012/06/19 22:56:13
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 23:21:50
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I don't know. She seemed pretty spot on when she was here last fall. I've seen lots of bands have off nights..big deal. To me they only show that they are only human.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 23:24:50
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trimph1
I don't know. She seemed pretty spot on when she was here last fall. I've seen lots of bands have off nights..big deal. To me they only show that they are only human.
Or her sound tech guys did a crap job and didn't give her decent feedback. Trying to sing on key without audible foldbacks is just a biatch!
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 23:41:13
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trimph1
I don't know. She seemed pretty spot on when she was here last fall. I've seen lots of bands have off nights..big deal. To me they only show that they are only human.
Well, yeh, so why can't she be human on the album? That's what I've been arguing about the whole time here. If you are a little pitchy, then just be a little pitchy on the album. Don't tune it. Lots of singers are a little pitchy. But we are in an era when those things can be fixed so they generally are, I think for reasons of perceived competitiveness, and so we end up with a lot less humanity in the music. And I also have to think that mixers and producers at some level cannot help but like things being the way they are. If songs need days of tweaking in order to get them to a competive level of polish, then that makes possibly more important than the artist, at least to the companies writing the check anyway. If human performance isn't acceptable other than in off the beaten path indie music, then the master wave editor becomes a lot more important.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 23:42:46
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There are still technically amazing musicians out there. We just have diversity. Have a listen to these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0kdCf0zTE And listen to some of their other covers too. I really can't see pitch correction or audiosnap ever having the ability to make this kind of amazing performance if they musicians aren't up to scratch. People hear this and they KNOW the musicians are amazing. They hear pop stuff, they enjoy it, but they understand the processing being it at least to some degree. If you have an engineer that is able to take a mediocre performance and make something as amazing sounding as above, then hell, props to the freaking engineer for an amazing job! Sure he probably won't get the credit he deserves, but that's life. There is more to musicianship than playing instruments well. It's also WHAT is played. Someone with the imagination to create a great music piece has every right to do what it takes to make that a sonic experience, even if it is an illusion. Mixing engineers are illusionists. Everything is an illusion to some degree. Dean, you mention the point here is honesty. I agree in that if an artist does use these tools, they should be honest about it if someone asks them. It's a bit rude to say "yeah a drummed that well!" or "yes my singing is that good!" It's fair I guess to avoid answering it if it's not directly asked, and don't publicise your techniques widely, but if someone asks "did you use pitch correction on your vocals?", then tell the truth. Otherwise, I see no reason to not shout it out to the world. Keep it private unless someone asks you, then tell them the truth. Bottom line, use the tools, but be honest!
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 23:57:41
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That was posted a while back on Gearslutz. The reaction was interestingly very mixed, and sometimes kind of extremely so. I dunno. To me, in some ways at least, that's the kind of music that's probably the most easily swizzled. If you want music that's hard to screw around with, it seems to me it's more stuff that has lots of natural room ambience and fair amounts of bleed because it's recorded all together, or at least the fundamental tracks are. That's of course almost the antithesis of how music is made these days, with almost everything laid down separately to a click, which makes it easy to manipulate. But yeh, super tight grooves of that sort are certainly indicative of good musicianship, assuming of course that that's actually a recording of them playing what you see. Often that's not the case. Not saying that they couldn't do it, but you shouldn't assume that what you hear is what you see. To me, this is the kind of thing that would be VERY difficult to create in the computer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydc1DkrtxP8 This type of music is all about feel, and everything is be recorded live, so any mistakes are going to be there in the ambeince channels and in the bleed. Of course the actual studio version of it is not so much like it this. It is pretty heavily processed. I really prefer these live versions. Brian Blade is stupidly good on the drums. I love when Trixie goes over and gets on the other kit and suddenly the drums go stereo. And you hear a small glitch when she probably bumps a mic a something getting into place. And, just for the record, at that particular point at least, Trixie was just stupidly gorgeous. Here's one to watch. It's fun to watch and is a good example of what someone who can really do it can do, even in a Karaoke bar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmv1VhrtYRo
post edited by droddey - 2012/06/20 00:05:06
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MP3ISTHEDEVIL
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 00:12:27
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Not at all, that's exactly what I think, in fact. What I dislike about droddey's argument is that I think it's a bit misanthropic on the one hand, and a bit anti-art on the other. People are always creating art in whatever circumstances they are in, with whatever means the have available, and I think the idea that current circumstances and means make current art somehow dishonest and invalid frankly objectionable and ignorant. He's merrily writing off pretty much everyone. Not simply as stuff he's not interested in, which would be fair enough, if a bit unadventurous. But rather as stuff that's invalid, dishonest, and contemptible. He and the horse he rode in on can go and take ride on that, frankly.
I agree 110 % Was just hoping the guy wasent a turd. I say we give him a a paintbrush, one color of paint, and a sigle canvis. Im shure the misantrop would shine through in the "Battle of the Paintbrush's"
post edited by MP3ISTHEDEVIL - 2012/06/20 00:23:26
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 00:31:32
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Wow, anti-art and misanthropic? You have to be kidding. If you knew anything about me you'd know that my position here is driven from completely the opposite position. I'm for art in music, and think that there's not enough. I love a lot of music that most folks think is so artsy fartsy they hate it. I don't see how 'art' is that much of a concern in the mainstream of the last decade or so. It's always there off the beaten path in every decade. But in some decades it manages to be popular as well. Have you listened to any of the stuff I've said I like in this thread? It covers a wide range, hardly a single color. I've studied the history of popular music probably a lot more than most folks around here, so I know from whence what came from what and how we got to where we are. It's cyclical. We are overdue for the next back to basics movement really. The next White Stripes or Ramones or something. Not that I'm particularly looking forward to another punkish movement. But with things have been like they are for the last decade, if we can actually have another turn of the wheel with the music industry being so whacked these days from theft, then it may be a fairly extreme one. Somehwere out there now are some kids cutting themselves with razor blades and dreaming of setting fire to the careers of folks like Justin Bieber, and eventually one of them may succeed. And then that music will become so popular that it makes the next generation of kids want to puke and they'll go back the other direction again. There'll still be good stuff going on all the time under the RADAR, as there always is.
post edited by droddey - 2012/06/20 00:37:41
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 05:08:58
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Without any examples of people doing this thing you claim that is being done all over the place, this is just a load of wind.
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 07:20:43
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If you find that it is all bad then it is...for you. I'm almost tempted to go the opposite way just to see whether I can pull off the lie... ....mmmmm...there must be a 'turd polisher' effect I can use..... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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michaelhanson
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 07:33:30
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Well..... I am going to continue to make music. I play all of the instruments on my songs, one track at a time, to a drum track. The only thing I can not play is drums, which I have to program. It just is not convenient for me to have a drummer come set up a set in my family room eveytime I have the inspiration to write and record a new song. I also have not mastered the art of playing all of the instruments by myself at the same time.
Bottom line, I am having more fun doing this than all of the rest of my time in the last 40 years playing music. I can work at my own pace on my own time. At midnight, when the inspiration hits, I have the ability to record.
If this is cheating, then I will continue to cheat. I generally do not record anything that I could not do live, or have a 4-5 peice band do live with me. I enjoy collaborating and do at every opportunity. When I can't play a piano part to my satisfaction, I recruit some help.
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jamesg1213
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 08:36:01
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I've studied the history of popular music probably a lot more than most folks around here, so I know from whence what came from what and how we got to where we are There's a guy called 'Moshkaie' who says this kind of thing all the time at the CH. He thinks we're all Philistines. I think it's somewhat arrogant to assume, or even guess, that you know more about a subject than a lot of other people whom you haven't even met.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 08:39:24
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It's the old song and dance...
"I, alone, know the Truth, and none stand above me"
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 08:48:11
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To claim to be a student of the history of popular music, while at the same time showing you've not kept up on it for about fifteen years is a bit of a stretch.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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SEVerstraten
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 08:51:00
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Geez, that's getting close to conforming to religious dogma's.
Better read the Forum TOS again
Sonar Platinum Lifetime Win 10 x64 , Intel i7 2670QM, 8GB DDR3 Roland OCTA-CAPTURE, IK-Multimedia STOMP-IO, KRK G5, PCR500
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jamesg1213
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 13:01:06
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To claim to be a student of the history of popular music, while at the same time showing you've not kept up on it for about fifteen years is a bit of a stretch. Ain't that always the way though?
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 14:32:31
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MakeShift
Well..... I am going to continue to make music. I play all of the instruments on my songs, one track at a time, to a drum track. The only thing I can not play is drums, which I have to program. It just is not convenient for me to have a drummer come set up a set in my family room eveytime I have the inspiration to write and record a new song. I also have not mastered the art of playing all of the instruments by myself at the same time.
Bottom line, I am having more fun doing this than all of the rest of my time in the last 40 years playing music. I can work at my own pace on my own time. At midnight, when the inspiration hits, I have the ability to record.
If this is cheating, then I will continue to cheat. I generally do not record anything that I could not do live, or have a 4-5 peice band do live with me. I enjoy collaborating and do at every opportunity. When I can't play a piano part to my satisfaction, I recruit some help.
Damn, man. Where are people coming up with this stuff? Are you playing the notes yourself? If so, you aren't cheating. Ultimately, the thing is that, if you are a musician, it's your responsibility to play the right notes, at the right time, with the right dynamics and tone. If you are doing that, then you aren't cheating. Why does everyone continually, despite my constant explanation to the contrary, think that I feel that it's 'real' if you don't record it live on one mic without a single overdub? It's not about RULES, it's about HONESTY. If you are honestly playing and/or singing the notes that I hear, then that's it. I use BFD myself, though I play the parts. It's not that hard to do if you work at it. The keyboard isn't be the best way to do it for sure, but it can be done. A MIDI percussion controller helps a lot. Playing with sticks makes all the difference as well. I bought a little practice drum pad four or five months ago and I've been practicing regularly on it, in preparation for the day when I can at least get a little e-kit. Sitting there playing on that pad with a metronome has done more to improve my timing in these past months than anything I've ever done. I highly recommend it.
post edited by droddey - 2012/06/20 15:00:10
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 14:38:16
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jamesg1213
I've studied the history of popular music probably a lot more than most folks around here, so I know from whence what came from what and how we got to where we are
There's a guy called 'Moshkaie' who says this kind of thing all the time at the CH. He thinks we're all Philistines. I think it's somewhat arrogant to assume, or even guess, that you know more about a subject than a lot of other people whom you haven't even met.
It's not arrogance, it's just simple statistics. The vast majority of people have not looked substantially into the vast majority of subjects, because there isn't time to do so in one life. So, if you have looked fairly heavily into a given area, then it's a given that you will know more about it than the vast majority of the people you meet. Just like they are likely to know more about some other subjects (that they put their time into) than you do. Do you really think that everyone in this discussion has watched literally multiple hundreds of documentaries on the history of popular music? I doubt it seriously. If everyone here by some crazy chance has, then of course I appologize. And I wasn't even saying it to imply that everyone else is an idiot. I was saying to protect myself from other people who are throwing all kinds of crap in my direction, for the simple reason that I argue for honesty in music. And for this I'm treated like some kind of a-hole.
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/20 14:40:06
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trimph1
It's the old song and dance...
"I, alone, know the Truth, and none stand above me"
Wow. I love the way you guys are so incredibly judgemental, without even providing any real arguments of your own, just taking whacks at me about being judgemental, when I'm just expressing my opinion and trying to explain it. I have never said, implied, or even thought anything remotely like that, and if anyone thinks I have then they are projecting wildly.
post edited by droddey - 2012/06/20 14:56:52
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