John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:30:09
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Dean: I like that Coco Rosie stuff, but I'm surprised that you don't seem to realise how studio-concocted it is. It's literally *impossible* for performing players to sound like that. I think we must be *at least* talking at cross purposes here.
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:30:48
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John T
She's amazing, but the LP is rubbish.
She is amazing live...
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:32:37
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I like Magma. I think Gong are a bit of a slog. If you;re into that kind of thing, a friend of mine recently introduced me to the fantastically named Brain Ticket. Check those bad boys out.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:34:34
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Brain Ticket are like a psych band that occasionally go to a disco. Like Aphrodite's Child or that kind of thing. Flutes, organs and bad-ass beats.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:48:01
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droddey
Wow, this thread continues to prove that the most common form of communiations on the planet is misunderstanding. I don't see how you guys are getting any of this stuff from what I said. I don't want everyone on the planet to sound like Steely Dan. I don't even listen to them because I find it too refined, though I respect the talent.
I'm talking about HONESTY. What's so hard to get about that? Just put out there what you are and can honestly do. I love roughly made music. In fact when anyone asks me these days what's something out there I think is interesting I point them at a band like CocoRosie, a lot of which is incredibly primitive. But it has an amazing vibe because it is real.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6bInhOhUYs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51K4cUTuvc0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDb7dAnm79I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBWxjAiO_KQ
Check all of the above out. Don't listen to one and think you know what they are because the range of stuf in there is pretty vast. Some of it is incredibly primitive but it gives me the chills.
And of course I'm a huge fan of Yes, Rush, Pink Floyd, and so forth, which is much more produced and some of it vastly more technically oriented. And though those bands are very much into experimentation, they don't misrpresent what they can actually do. They can all bring it live.
I don't care how you express yourself, I just wish you'd be honest about it, and not put out songs that are inhumanly perfected by extensive use of editing and corrective tools, and just pretend like you did it. I don't respect that any more than I respect anyone in any other profession misrepresenting their accomplishments.
And I don't think that Lady Gaga is a bad musician. She clearly is someone, like Madonna, who sees a market and goes after it with a vengeance, and makes herself more about image than music. I have no problem with that either, per se. But if anyone here is trying to claim that there isn't hugely more *performance* enhancement going on today than there was up until the advent of widespread digital tools in the mid-90s, then I have to laugh. And I mean not of the sort where it's an obvious effect, which is always just a matter of taste. And I certainly don't think it's improved music at all. It's cheapened it ultimately.
I certainly don't hold your views against you in any way and I respect you for sticking to your guns. I simply disagree with you and think your feelings about it may hinder your development as a producer. I'm not one to expect folks to think or have the same tastes as me. Sorry, I'm not a fan of any of those bands you just mentioned. I like Gilmore's soloing though.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:50:30
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I used to think I liked Pink Floyd, but I eventually realised I just liked Gilmour's guitar playing. He's awesome, I could listen to him all day. But as a band I think they're mostly dreadful.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:51:53
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On which basis, I think Wish You Were Here is the only LP I still like. I think when The Other Three get their groove on without Waters's intervention, they're pretty good.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:56:19
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Funnily enough, I was trying to learn the comfortably numb solo today. Tell you what about Gilmour; speed-wise, nothing special. Composition-wise, moderately special. In terms of *phrasing*, though, he's off the hook. It's in the grasp of most intermediate guitarists to play the notes he played, but there are monster shredders who can't get anywhere near *how* he does it.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 19:57:02
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I can't really say I've given all their albums a chance but the ones my friends had growing up I noticed once the soloing stopped I didn't much like the rest.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:02:34
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John T
Funnily enough, I was trying to learn the comfortably numb solo today. Tell you what about Gilmour; speed-wise, nothing special. Composition-wise, moderately special. In terms of *phrasing*, though, he's off the hook. It's in the grasp of most intermediate guitarists to play the notes he played, but there are monster shredders who can't get anywhere near *how* he does it.
Indeed I would also put Billy Gibbons in the category of achieving more with one note or bend than most guitarists can do with their shredding bag of tricks and acrobatics. Gilmore played with heart
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:06:29
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Yeah, Billy Gibbons is great on that score, Plays totally sing-along joy-filled solos.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:12:40
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Tell you who else is brilliant at that: Prince. It's not on YouTube, but if you've got spotify, listen to the solo on I could Never Take The Place Of Your Man that comes in at about 2:30. It's carved out of solid sunshine, and when you see it live, everyone in the place actually sings it.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:28:55
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Absolutely Prince, possibly the greatest guitar player alive. I seen him do "while my guitar...." labeled as greatest solo ever on Youtube. It was amazing. I often think that is what Hendrix would possibly sound like today if things were different. Certainly a pioneer in modern music production as well.
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michaelhanson
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:29:02
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Two thumbs up for Gilmour and Gibbons. I'll take slow with soul any day; over a thousand scale notes a minute.
I worked the Superpages concerts a couple of years ago as a fund raiser for our hockey team. We heard a lot of top notch bands play that year while serving up drinks. Not many sounded as good as ZZ Top. Those boys can still play.
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:32:49
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John T
Brain Ticket are like a psych band that occasionally go to a disco. Like Aphrodite's Child or that kind of thing. Flutes, organs and bad-ass beats.
Yep. Definitely got them on all points.  Like this one...
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:33:27
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Yeah, that While My Guitar performance is ace. I love the bit where George Harisson's son starts laughing because it's so brilliant, while all the other lead players onstage have a sulk at being upstaged so badly.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:34:43
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MakeShift
Two thumbs up for Gilmour and Gibbons. I'll take slow with soul any day; over a thousand scale notes a minute.
I worked the Superpages concerts a couple of years ago as a fund raiser for our hockey team. We heard a lot of top notch bands play that year while serving up drinks. Not many sounded as good as ZZ Top. Those boys can still play.
You always had great taste in tones Mike 
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:38:29
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There's a Prince track called Pink Cashmere; not one of his best, but lead guitar wise, it's beyond tasty. The guitar bit at the end where he's trading licks with the orchestral players is mind-boggling.
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ohgrant
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 20:45:16
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Thanks, never heard it...I must
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:07:23
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John T
On Pink Floyd: they were pretty lame live, under their own steam. Bolstered on stage by a half dozen session players since the early 70s. I'll give them that live8 show, they were pretty good on that as a four piece, but that's not been their MO since as far back as the Dark Side tour.
Wha? Have you ever seen Live at Pompei? That's an amazing live performance from just the four of them. Echoes is an epic tune and they kill it on that performance.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:13:05
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Yeah, I've seen it a number of times. I don't really like it much, to be honest. I like Gilmore's stuff on it, especially the distorted lap steel stuff, and Mason definitely does the best drumming he ever did on it, but I don't really dig the actual tunes very much. Always thought Echoes was a bit of a drag. And the other two totally phone it in throughout, for my money.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:13:20
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Somewhat subjective this, I'll grant.
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droddey
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:13:30
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John T
I used to think I liked Pink Floyd, but I eventually realised I just liked Gilmour's guitar playing. He's awesome, I could listen to him all day. But as a band I think they're mostly dreadful.
Clearly the reason they are one of the most revered and biggest selling acts of all time. Wish You Were Head and Animals are just monster albums, which I don't think anyone today could touch. And, even if they could, no one would because you'd have about zero chance at suckling at the corporate tit with albums that cast that cynical an eye on the tits themselves. And these days it seems like people consider success to be getting a song used on a commercial or in a movie soundtrack. You'll have somewhat better luck on the music soundtrack if you make less than happy music. But still, the move on the part of consumers to just abandon their morals and start stealing whatever they want has put the corporate tit back on the top in the music business.
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chuckebaby
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:15:56
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John T
Hi Charlie: I'm saying the exact opposite of that. I think whatever makes for a killer record is fine with me.
i knew that john,you know i respect you hommie..:)
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:18:27
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The idea that music reached some unsurpassed peak in the mid 70s - some 40 years ago - is one on which we're very unlikely to reach agreement. The idea that were there such a peak, bloody Animals would represent it, is laughable.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:19:09
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Yeah, Charlie, I guessed we'd just got out of sync on the thread there somehow.
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:21:25
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I remember quite clearly the moment I started to go off Pink Floyd. I was listening to Animals, and yer man sang BLEATING AND BABBLING, WE FELL ON HIS NECK WITH A SCREAM, and I thought to myself "This is nowhere near as good as listening to Chic".
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trimph1
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:30:15
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I tended towards the more woolier side of psych and space rock around then...bands like Hawkwind or now-a-days, Orange Goblin seem to be more what I go after, as well as the aforementioned ones... Or, the Fall.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAWHUa9AM1s
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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John T
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:41:17
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Ah, now The Fall are another thing entirely. Remarkable, staggeringly unique stuff.
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MP3ISTHEDEVIL
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Re:The Zen of Audiosnap
2012/06/19 21:42:30
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I think what droddey might be partially saying (Im trying not to be to presumptuous) is that when you have dedicated a large chunk of your life to music. Meaning living on the road in vans, crappy hotel rooms, playing for hand fulls of people on some nights. Then get home to rehearsals, writing, recording, and then going back on the road to support your record is lots and lots of hard work and dedication.
I think he might feel that people are looking for short-cuts using computers. I dont know. And if thats the case, having done all the above. I personaly feel making the record you want to make is hard work no matter how you go about it.
I think we are all one sort or another of an artist and should give one another the benefit of the doubt.
This is when all sides attack me ; )
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