I recommend all developers of vst plugins devote time & energy in making sure all of their range is updated to 64 bit versions.


But it's not going to happen

SteveStrummerUK

Can you guys help me understand something here.

I've read through this thread (and many other similar ones) and a lot of you are making a big thing of how long SONAR runs for you without a crash, or more accurately, before a crash. This, I'm guessing, is a way of illustarting how stable SONAR is running for you?
 
Which leads me to a couple of thoughts...
 
Firstly, wouldn't a more accurate portrayal of reliability be garnered if, instead of stating simply how long SONAR has been running, you were to state what you were actually doing with SONAR during that time, and how often you were doing it.

And that is the crux of the matter right there. ^

Here's a prime example ... I had no problems running X2 W/QF while I was remixing/remastering old projects. Where I ran in to problems was when I started Tracking and then installed the A Patch.

Sonar does run very well ... if I don't use the Pro Channel, Track Lanes, Envelopes, Quick Grouping, and Screensets.

And that if is where these threads fall apart and people get their nose bent out of shape. I'm not excluding myself from that by the way.

Obviously I say 'unknown' procedure, as once you've identified it, you can address the problem to prevent further crashes. I would imagine the biggest pain is when a certain technique or procedure only occasionally causes a problem - especially if it's in the same project.

How do you address the Concrete Limiter from not working? LINK (If you don't have the CL, you won't see this problem)

How do you address all the modules from randomly stop working? LINK (If you don't use the PC you won't see these problems)

How do you address Take Lanes from not working? LINK LINK LINK LINK (If you don't use V-Vocal, you won't see these problems)

How do you address Track View related crashes? LINK (If you don't try to change Inputs in this manor you won't see this problem)

I've experienced all of those, as well as the other users who started these links.

If you don't use those things, you won't run in to those problems, but that doesn't mean that Sonar as a whole is stable.

I only bring this up to try and point out, once again, that I'm not just sitting here arguing about Sonar's stability for the sake of arguing. It's not a stable program depending on how you use it, and in my opinion it's not right to come on the forum and make such outlandish claims as you have never lost work in 7 years without a giant 'but' disclaimer of some sort.

The problems I run in to are legitimate, documented problems by other users. I think some of the problems mentioned above have been fixed by the way. But the point is, if you use all the features of the Producer Edition, and some features that cross over in lesser versions, you will run in to problems. It's not possible not to.

Here's another example that makes it so frustrating ...

This is one of the 250 bugs the A Patch fixed ... "Cloning a track within a folder puts it in another folder (CWBRN-1191). The patch did not fix this problem. It's still doing it

Thanks,

Bub

Bub

Mick Moreau

Like Stratman, I too have been using Sonar for a long time (Since cakewalk 2004).

Me too. I've been using Cakewalk software since Pro Audio 9.0. Can't remember how long ago that was, I'm thinking 98'ish?

Now, I will preface my statement with the fact that I DO save often just to keep from losing important stuff as I would do in ANY software program I use.

Me too. I have Sonar set to save every 60 seconds.

All of my cakewalk experience until X1, was in the Home Stduio versions.

All of mine were with Producer Editions.

I dropped the whole dime on the full X1 when it first came out.  I didnt work well with my new system and had a lot of small problems that got repaired over time with updates. I actually went backwards and bought Sonar 8 full, and Cakewalk was nice enough to provide me with the 8.5 upgrade links so that I could have all the tools.  Once upgraded, 8.5.3 worked flawlessly on my system.

IIRC 8.0 was a crash fest. 8.5.3 is still my favorite DAW of all time.

I waited thru X-1 and when it went to X2 I upgraded immediately.  With a couple of insignificant glitches (still no lost work due to saving), X2 has performed to expectations.

Now before you jump all over me, Bub I will admit to NOT being a high end Recording studio user, but I do a lot of work with Midi combined with audio using an 6 year old audiophile 2496.  I record live sometimes, but mostly in house audio and midi equalling close to 80 tracks depending upon my needs.  Also, I use a lot of effects and until I get into multiple softsynths I dont have any real problems.  Even still they are mostly user controlled error on my part.  With a some research, and using the forum, I get what I need in plenty of time.

From everything I've read those 2496 cards are rock solid. I would never jump you. Your one of the many members here that can have a rational conversation about these kind of things. There's only a handful of us that get in to these virtual slug fests from time to time. ;)

Sorry to hear that youve been having a lot of problems with it, but if moving on to something better will help you get the job done then you probably should.  The way it reads in the last 3 pages there isnt any amount of convincing you that Sonar is a good platform, but from where I sit... its the best yet (for me)

Hope you find a form of a solution that suits you.

Keep in mind ... the A patch alone fixed 250 bugs ... Seems to me you would be hard pressed not to run in to one, that's why when people come in and claim they've never lost work work in 7 seven years and see no problems it seems so unbelievable. Heck, even using Auto-Save I've lost work because of crashes in Sonar caused by VST's.

All the other DAW's I've tried work. I've been using Reaper a lot, and I've been using a lot of the VST's that come with Sonar in it. I had one crash, it was a Cakewalk VST, and Reaper reset the VST and I kept on working. When it happened in Sonar, I would get a hard crash and have to reboot. It shouldn't be that way.

Anyway, I've been tracking all day and so far so good since I created that separate user account. That looks very promising.

It's good to see you Mick. It's been a while. Hope all is well.

Bub

Hi Bub, :)
 
Yeah, it has been a while, but I still pop in every couple of days to see whats new, read the threads and maybe learn something that helps me somewhere down the road.  If I do post, I try to be as objective, and factual as I can from the only viewpoint I have... which is mine...  Ive seen a lot of upset people over the years and if there is one thing I have learned from watching the "angry" threads is that it does little good to attack.  Everyone has their own viewpoint, set of circumstances and its very rare that we see "identical" sets of circumstances... especially when it comes to software and DAWs.
  Despite the vitriole thats been displayed recently, Ive learned some things in this very thread that will help me later on for that possibility when I AM a higher end studio user.
  I also like to see the kindness and civility pop up too (as in your response to my post),  made me feel pretty good about things and show that you care about what we all are going through.  In the end we all want something similar... the best operating platform, without so many bugs, and to make music.
 
Glad I came and participated in this one..
Thanks Bub :)
 
 

and just for the sake of saying it, there are many work arounds these cakewalk pros know about
 and learning about .things you cant do like run vvocal on a track without bouncing( crash everytime) screen sets)crash
 and many more.
 funny how they alway say in a kind way .where stupid and run  battlefield 3  with origin and steam and 3 other apps when we record, i too have a clean install on arig with nothing but sonar on it
 i play games on my home computer not my daw. so please quit the sonar is perfect and all the other posts that rub it in how you have a 5 thousand dollor gold sound capture device that makes coffee for you as it records your tracks from bed. its a fact sonar runs like crap on the basic computer
 i run all those other daws flawless with my rig sonar is the only one that crashs every day drops out every 20 min. yes if you have the money to throw at it you can get it solid, but its not easy or cheap
 and x1 expanded was better than x2 bit still alot of the same stuff is broken on x1 and x2

Quick question, do you have windows Aero enabled or disabled?


I don't have the problems you have mentioned as i've yet to upgrade. But I know this was a problem for some in the past.

thebiglongy

Quick question, do you have windows Aero enabled or disabled?

I don't have the problems you have mentioned as i've yet to upgrade. But I know this was a problem for some in the past.

There's been a lot of discussion about that.

Basically from what I've gathered from the forum here is, now days you should be able to just take a PC off the shelf of a box store (Cakewalk recommends HP) and run Sonar without tweaking it. No more need for specialty built DAW's by dedicated DAW makers any more.

You shouldn't have to touch Aero, Swap File, or any of that stuff other than turn off Power Management.

The only ones I would still do are setting your USB ports to never sleep and turn off your power management. And even the power management can be used a little, such as turning your monitor off after a certain amount of time. And I'm not sure you have to touch the USB setting any more. Seems to me, the last time I did a fresh install of Windows 7 and then did all the updates, all my USB ports were already set that way. But I'm not 100% sure on that.

@Bub, 

I attach no 'but' to my assertion that on my system, and on several prior systems, I simply do not lose data, nor do I have or did have crashes with Sonar - for several years now.

I am sorry you (or anyone) have had different experiences, and I am sorry that there are indeed bugs out there that folks run into.  I too run into bugs, and find workarounds or for that particular thing put trying it aside until a fix is indicated through a maintenance release, such as what happened with X2a.

None of what I have posted is 'made up', nor is it 'outlandish'.  It is simply a reporting of my particular experience.  I reject and resent your assertions that postings such as mine are 'bull poop' or whatever you called it (frequently).

Do things in X2a aggravate me?  Yes, some things certainly do, and I hope Cakewalk addresses some of the things that cause me extra work.

The fact of the matter is that I built a nice computer (while I paid more a year ago, when I built mine, I just bought all the same parts for someone else two days ago and they have an even better system than mine for less than $1000 - though they have 16GB of memory instead of my 32GB - but they have a faster CPU).   I have a reasonably priced interface that meets my needs for ins and outs, and my work flow involves mainly MIDI, with some vocals and guitars.  In MY situation, things work well and are completely stable, with regard to Sonar X2a.  

I AM having an ongoing issue with Presonus over a problem with my audio interface, but have a workaround that allows me to continue to work without crashing.  Even there, they gave me some steps to do that I have not been able to get to yet - I have to go pick up a smaller flash drive so that I can format it for Fat32 to do a BIOS update for my motherboard - so I cannot even really complain about the interface until AFTER I get the BIOS update completed.

I quite frankly find your repeated slams offensive, unfair, and unwarranted.  Please adjust your posting content to refrain from things like effectively calling those of us with functioning systems 'full of crap' and 'liars'.  

There are other posts where you provide either legitimate questions, or helpful solutions, and I appreciate those - I do not want to have to go the route of reporting you to the forum moderators, so please again adjust your posting content.

Thank you, 

Bob Bone

robert_e_bone

@Bub, 

There are other posts where you provide either legitimate questions, or helpful solutions, and I appreciate those - I do not want to have to go the route of reporting you to the forum moderators, so please again adjust your posting content.

Thank you, 

Bob Bone

I highly recommend you block me, or ignore me Bob.

It's not your forum to police ... If you feel that I'm that out of line, report me, but don't ever tell anyone what they can and cannot say on a public forum. It's not your call to make.

Bub

CakeAlexS

You should be able to run Sonar fine on a stable and well configured computer. Sonar will NOT optimise your system out of the box. Sonar will not ensure your hardware (firmware) or device drivers or power management are stable. Folks it may be 2013 but HAL does not exist and will not configure your PC for you. Nor will HP or Dell or what will do a great job.

Hold on there a sec pardner' ... Cakewalk says you can buy an HP and a Dell right off the shelf and be up and running.

All models listed have been certified by Cakewalk's DAW Labs

HP Z800 Workstation
HP Z210 CMT Workstation
HP Z Series Workstations
Dell T3400

http://www.cakewalk.com/PCResource/buy.aspx?Type=Desktop

You see he's using a Dell, right? (Check his sig). I think you missed the point of his statement, Bub.

CakeAlexS

Up and running yes. Stable no. Does Dell supply device drivers or test your audio equipment? Does HP test sonar on their machines? Why do Dell and other manufacturers issues firmware and BIOS upgrades? Why does windows have registry tweaks? Why does MS supply windows update? why do people leave stability and optimization tips?

There's one common factor here. You've got to sort this mess out or hire somebody to do it.

Sorry Alex, according to Cakewalk, you should be able to take one of these boxes off the shelf and use their product.

Direct quote from Cakewalk ....

All models listed have been certified by Cakewalk's DAW Labs

HP Z800 Workstation
HP Z210 CMT Workstation
HP Z Series Workstations
Dell T3400

You should be able to go online, order one of those PC's, install Sonar and be on your way. The only thing I can possibly think of that you would have to do is turn off some of the options in Power Save mode. Other than that, you should be able to plug in one of the Cakewalk recommended USB or Firewire devices and start using Sonar.

I'm being serious ... I'm not busting on you. If Cakewalk is putting out there that their "Labs" have "Certified" these PC's to work, they should work right off the shelf. I believe that is the point they are trying to make when they emphasize they have had their "Labs" "Certify" these products.

EDIT: It's been repeatedly stated here that the days of tweaking your DAW are over. If you have to tweak your hardware to get software to run, there's something wrong in the software.

You should be able to go online, order one of those PC's, install Sonar and be on your way. The only thing I can possibly think of that you would have to do is turn off some of the options in Power Save mode. Other than that, you should be able to plug in one of the Cakewalk recommended USB or Firewire devices and start using Sonar.

 
I dunno... it looks like you're adjusting the line a little to where it seems right to you, based on your experience.  But isn't that what everyone's doing?
 
Also...  I'm too lazy to search, but I wonder if those systems have TI Firewire chipsets or USB2 slots...
 

I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative, that is not my intention Alex. Seriously.

All I'm trying to say is, be it right or wrong, accurate or inaccurate, Cakewalk has a list of 'Off the shelf' PC's they say they have extensively tested their software with and will run, right off the shelf.

I can't argue the validity of those statements, I can only quote them and take them at their face value.

I don't know how they do it now, but remember the old 'riser' boards they used to use and the proprietary components inside?

 
I believe that was Dell's previous alien technology, 'cause it sure never looked quite like the inside of any other PC.  
 

Heck why am I saying it, the link you gave me says it:

http://www.cakewalk.com/PCResource/certification.aspx

"Because most audio hardware and software are happiest when Windows is entirely dedicated to their needs, a reasonable amount of customization to the OS is expected. Basically any part of Windows that may conflict with music production, or consume valuable resources should be disabled or minimized as much as possible."

That means drivers, hardware, firmware, software that hogs too many resources or simply does not work. Software known to interfere with windows.

YOU configure your PC. You makes the music. You you you you you :).

CakeAlexS


Heck why am I saying it, the link you gave me says it:

http://www.cakewalk.com/PCResource/certification.aspx

"Because most audio hardware and software are happiest when Windows is entirely dedicated to their needs, a reasonable amount of customization to the OS is expected. Basically any part of Windows that may conflict with music production, or consume valuable resources should be disabled or minimized as much as possible."

That means drivers, hardware, firmware, software that hogs too many resources or simply does not work. Software known to interfere with windows.

YOU configure your PC. You makes the music. You you you you you :).

Reasonable, such as power management, not doing a myriad of DAW tweaks. Going in to your registry, disabling Swap Files, FAT tweaks, and that kind of thing are not reasonable to the average user.