VS-700, SONAR X2, Where we (Cakewalk and You) are at

Hey Everyone,

So, I know you're all waiting on an official response from us. I want to first say that any lack of a response hasn't been due to lack of care or concern. Our teams have been working extremely hard on several things which extend well beyond the day-to-day conversations we sometimes partake in here on the forums. Sometimes the lack of a forum response is us just trying to collect official details before speaking out of turn. This is how I personally operate at least. If it's not in some way "official", I prefer to not speak up at all. I don't like to make empty promises.

Nevertheless, I'm sorry for lack of direct response lately. I don't personally make it onto the forums very much in my typical daily routine, but obviously have been trying to much more recently with the X2 release. I've spoken with many of you multiple times via emails and phones and know that you folks are very passionate about SONAR, the VS-700 and have made a big investment.

With that being said, there are a few VS-700 & SONAR X2 compatibility issues that are on our radar. 

Display Lag:

We've collected a lot of feedback regarding a delay (or lag) when performing certain actions on the VS-700C. I explained a bit in my post here <http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2667217&mpage=1#2669608> why this has changed from pre-SONAR X1d to now. Please understand this is only an attempt to explain the difference, not a defense for what I think is better or worse.

Ultimately, a lot of it has to do with new implementation in SONAR X1d/X2 and how messages must be sent to and from the console. One alternative to not refreshing the display this this way would be to not display parameters properly on the VS-700C's LCD. This is obviously not a desirable solution. The new implementation was a direct result of us fixing many issues in regards to ProChannel functionality on the VS-700C and Bus Selection on the VS-700C.

With that being said, we're investigating if there are optimizations that can be made. I'm not personally savvy enough on this topic, but I know there is a very specific protocol we must follow when sending data to and from the console as defined by the hardware itself. I can't say for sure if anything is going to change on this front at the moment, all I can say is that it's being investigated.

Selecting ProChannel modules from the surface:

We've received some reports that this can be weird in certain conditions and plan on addressing it. You should be able to cycle through the modules so if you're having difficulties that is obviously not intended.

Snap from the VS-700 getting confused:

We've received reports that this is not toggling correctly in X2 due to the new implementation with Snap and Snap Override. Also obviously not intended behavior.

Other issues & feedback:

I encourage anyone else to continue to fill out the Problem Report Form to report any issues. This is here: http://www.cakewalk.com/s...act/problemreport.aspx

If you don't receive immediate feedback on something it doesn't mean we're not pushing Feature Requests or Problem Reports to the appropriate people internally.

I also encourage everyone to give feedback in this thread. We did something similarly for SONAR X1d and were able to implement some of your great ideas. I can't make any promises, but if there is any way to get our Product Managers' attention it would be in this thread, since I'll be following it.

Thanks everyone,

Ryan Munnis
Product Support Manager
Cakewalk, Inc.

Hi Ryan, thanks for stopping by.

Bugs
1) Instrument tracks can't be unarmed individually, only globally on the console.
2) Offset-Button does not light up
3) Weird channel strip control behavior (EQ/SEND/ACT) in X1 (might be the same for X2) as explained here (see points 2-4): http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2621970
4) When you edit a BUS via the Channel Strip Control, and then hit the Track-Button (to view Tracks), the Channel Strip Control still controls that BUS, even though you have a properly selected Track in front of your eyes on the console.
 

Feature Requests
My favourite one would be zooming at the PRV via the console.

One more thing: upon switching tracks, the channel strip control should have focus on the same module (if existant) as on the previous track and not simply revert back to the one on top (which in X1 is always the compressor, even if you're switching through tracks to control the EQ on each track). 

But there's a neat list by this very community here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2676731
I like the idea of 'modes' presented in the link, like e.g. the midi edit mode.
Also the request "Ability to assign modifier buttons" could solve a lot of missing features.



Afaik, almost all of the bugs and feature requests have been sent via the official support route.

It's mostly down to the Channel Strip Control.


Thanks very much for reading.

Thanks for jumping in Ryan and your content really confirms what I was thinking. I'm generally an optimist however sometimes you have to face the facts.

It's great you guy(s) show support but the reality is that the 700C is (now) an afterthought to the core product which is X2 which does not obviously integrate tightly with the hardware. The inability to reliably operate eq and plugs from the surface confirm this.

Bugs and faults are to be investigated and will be addressed and there are loads of non intended behaviors and we've already skipped past X1 which is when the troubles actually began. X2 already.....

Thanks again Ryan however the writing appears to be clearly on the wall for us investors.

Cheers.

That's only referring to the display lag, in fairness.

I just don't want to put the console STRAIGHT in the garbage... let's recycle what is still usable hardware-wise and upgrade what is lacking for future-proofing.

Work around things lead straight to mess and confusion in the long run and we're almost there, so let's update that poor hardware.

Thks Ryan for coming here ....let me ask you guyz a simple question as i don't really care about PC in vs 700:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE PRE X1D INSTALLER OF THE VS 700 ? 


This would give an option at least for guys that want few features working instaed  of brand new ones (plenty) messing the thing ....

Thks again to clarify thing anyway ...

1- Check HERE

2- Update the hardware

3- BUMP

It pains me to have said that a bit. I've no wish to be rude or unconstructive. But it's hard to ignore the reality of the situation. This system was billed as having very tight integration with Sonar. Which it does for version 8.5. For a program with a tight release cycle, it seems bizarre that support hasn't been treated as an ongoing requirement. Plainly, no customer anywhere spent four grand expecting this.

Couldn't have said it any better John.

Yeah John, too bad you're so right.  It's been two years at least since I first triyed to get an insight from those "who knows", and it's a real shame that still today the only one who actually care is Ryan, still trying to figure out what's going on with us while dealing with his daily workload, which is somewhat unrelated to what we want to know.

If there's still such a product manager it is really time for him to show up. The damn list I've made with the help of other users is NOT A FREAKIN' JOKE. It should be investigated by a qualified tech and feedback should be given back to us. Seriously.

The hardware should be put up to date to follow the new "X" philosophy, whatever it mean. Did anybody ever opened the console yet? There's almost nothing in there. I would be curious to know which piece is obsolete. The faders, buttons, encoders, etc should work ok. I'm I wrong?

I was thinking and hoping that if for some reason there is hardware limitations and things wont be advanced with the VS and Sonar then maybe we would be lucky enough that if another hardware release happens in the future to follow X2 then perhaps there would be the same type of deal that happened with the Digi Design Control 24.... Discontinued for the C24 but offered reduced pricing on the C24 for registered customers.

Hi John

For me that would be my wish if for some reason it really was a hardware / Software limitation problem.

Has any one said that this is the case ?

I might have missed a post somewhere

So Ryan, any news from a product manager??? 

We're tired of speaking for nothing.

I understand empty promises are not an option but I do not understand why it is STILL a surprise when we point integration problems.

Since X1.

Come on.

Anybody test the product already?

Can we have a refund? lol....

In fact, just one question:  Is there any plan to bring the vs700 back to full compatibility with Sonar X?

You guys have a lot more patience than me... after the last session with X1, I got really peeved when I realized my work flow was now trashed as soon as I went to the mix stage.

All is still fine for tracking but when you get to mixing, this thing now sucks unless you just want simple fader and buss control and if that's all I ever wanted, i would have stuck with the Mackie... or the Fostex, or the Behringer.

The 700 was bought by us to enable complete integration with the flagship software. That no longer happens and there is NO sign that this will change. Main supporting fact is that even the Cake staff no longer use this gear.... over. Gee I wish I was wrong.....

Cheers.

Quick point of order: someone has said this "cakewalk no longer use it", and that's been picked up and repeated enough to become a factoid it seems. This is incorrect; you can see one being used in the X2 webinar, for example.