Why you need a subwoofer

In case you missed it, we have been updating the blog almost every day with new stories. Today, Cakewalk's Mike Trujillo tells you why you need a subwoofer. 

Why you need a subwoofer


And that's not all, many other Cakewalk staff have been posting on the blog over the past few week (including me).

Visit the Cakewalk Blog to read more.

Hi All,

Interesting post by Cakewalk.

This was actually a bit of my rant with the pro channel. While I liked the idea of the intergraded EQ system, I wanted a GUI representation of the EQ itself much like you'd find on FabFilters EQs (Or even the original Sonitus EQ). Easier to "monitor" whats going on below with active meters running and a fluid EQ gui.

Subwoofer too? Id save the money and purchase proper near field monitors before introducing anything that would "influence" the mix even further.  Not setup correctly could be catastrophic for your mix.

Scott Lee


Hi All,

Interesting post by Cakewalk.

This was actually a bit of my rant with the pro channel. While I liked the idea of the intergraded EQ system, I wanted a GUI representation of the EQ itself much like you'd find on FabFilters EQs (Or even the original Sonitus EQ). Easier to "monitor" whats going on below with active meters running and a fluid EQ gui.

Subwoofer too? Id save the money and purchase proper near field monitors before introducing anything that would "influence" the mix even further.  Not setup correctly could be catastrophic for your mix.

I thought it was an curious post as well... as if maybe they had a huge overstock of sub-woofers and were doing some marketing LOL.


I actually agree with you Scott.  While I also think having a sub woofer is a good "check" point, it can also be used poorly if a proper room balance/adjustment isn't done prior to deployment.


And, I would say that without good freq analysis, even a sub could create misguided mixes.


Proper near fields are definitely critical, however.


I wonder what drove this post by cake?  It just seems so "out of the blue".

I agree a subwoofer is good especially if you got neighbours from hell and you need to make a statement about how loud they can be a good blast of bass might quieten them.

However, I agree good surroundings good flooring is needed if you are using bass subwoofer.

I look at the blogs from time to time good source of info!

Looks like Cake are waking up from out of thier slumber!

You need subwoofers to check there's no rumble in the mix? Curious reason. Blog poster, use HPF - it's built in the ProChannel and it will save your money. 
If you add subwoofer to your system, it's not as straightforward as adding a new plugin to a mix. Subwoofers require good, well tuned room or they make your listening environment unpredictable, if not totally unusable. 

I mix on Genelec 8040A  nearfields + 7060A sub but my control room is big enough, well treated and measured  by Genelec engineers. I don't remember any mix over the years I would have saved because subwoofer made me hear rumble. If that is your main concern, dear Mr. Cakewalk blog poster, I'd suggest you to use your money on your tracking room isolation.  Meanwhile, just add 2nd pass HPF to each track that is not bass or kick drum.

For me the subwoofer is a real must !! and it's not a must until you tried it !!

First of all : yep you need a linearity in all the spectrum range  , and i say linearity !! that's why even good nearfield are not enought cause they roll off pretty hard the lows .....so you gonna tell me let's buy some nearfield  bigger and stronger : yep but you hilgly incresase the interarction with walls and early reflection , but the most important for me is that hearing my adam with and without sub is night and day even on med !! : why ?

soundcard feeding the sub , sub is dsipatching frequency ranges : 0/85 hz for sub 85/40khz for my P11A : the reseult as my adam have to handle a freqeuncy range reduced especially enregy wise (understangd the lows ;)) , the precision is wiked !!

3rd : the sub is on the floor (to be precisie on an auralex gramma : a must have) so my 3Deffects is just excellent on the Y axes (frequency axes from floor to top of my speaker) !!


Cons : hard to set up sometime : beware of phase (all sub have at least phase switches) , placement in the rooom and to not have a frequency lost on the crossover freqeuncey (in my case 85hz) , ARC frop IK helped me alot !! and now its price is super low so don't even think twice i bougth it 400 euros , it's 160 euros now !! 

@Zo

See, now there you have some info that could have been in the blog post, that gives insight and understanding, 
just a couple of lines of text and it makes a lot of difference to why someone might want to invest in it.
Some of it might be a bit to technical for me, but still :)   

edit: gnaff, cant figure out this quote thingy :P

Adding a sub to your studio to reference frequency is a valid point & approach to real world mixing. There's energy in the lows that affects the entire mix & vibe. Just 'cutting out all below a certain frequency' is a bit like saying 'I'll fix it in the master.' 

A sub is a tool. I find it very valuable, but then I did take time to set mine up properly.

"a sub woofer is a tool"


Yes, I enjoy my studio sub woofer. I like to make sure that the tone of the kick and any foot stomping sounds musical down in the 20hz range.

I don't use my sub woofer to remind myself that all the other instruments just make erratic noise in the 5-40hz range.

I like to use my sub to mix so that it sounds good on other systems that have authoritative bass response. Sometimes I get to listen to playback on a JBL or Meyer Sound line array out in a field. That's a good way to check the low end. :-)

I don't use the subwoofer too figure out what my car stereo sounds like.


I have an anecdote about car stereo to share. One of our cars has a subwoofer... and it is factory OEM. It is squishy sounding and makes a mellow oomph sound when you push it with gusto. Another car we have is made at the same factory and it doesn't have a sub woofer. It has a rich, deep, clean, and powerful bass response with the OEM speakers. By comparison that so called subwoofer in our particular car isn't a benefit and it doesn't sound good with anybodies mix. I don't spend a lot of time mixing for systems that make everything sound squishy... why bother.

all the best,
mike

It's a valid blog post & I don't see any "marketing" involved. 2.1 setups for music can be ideal for home/project studios. I've tuned post production/music rooms for many years now & have used subs for along time. No nearfield is going to push any significant amount of air below 40hz. Lucky if they handle below 80hz with flat response.

What the post could of added was a simple setup procedure if room tuning isn't an option. Subs are easier so setup then most people think.
Ideally you would use an RTA but it's not needed for personal use.

1. check the specification of your nearfields & based on frequency response decide on a crossover point.
2. Set sub to the estimated crossover point.
3. Play a selection of music to know VERY well & adjust sub level until it hits that "sweet spot". Trust your ears, you know what sounds good. Don't worry if it's technically flat, this room is for you to mix by. As long as you have referenced it to known content you can make informed mix decisions. Simple as that.

mike_mccue

carl


Adding a sub to your studio to reference frequency is a valid point & approach to real world mixing. There's energy in the lows that affects the entire mix & vibe. Just 'cutting out all below a certain frequency' is a bit like saying 'I'll fix it in the master.' 

Is that a bit like saying that we should actually hear the unwanted rumble and noise before we make it un-hearable?

I usually put a shirt on before I get a sunburn... I don't have to experience another sunburn to know about how useful a shirt is. I think of the shirt as a low pass filter.

Somehow, it seems like these thought processes can be related.

What if the shirt doesn't match the pants?
Depends on the material, sub frequencies don't necessarily translate into 'rumble'.
Cutting with your eyes instead of using your ears isn't always the solution, that's assuming there's a problem to begin with.

How did we ever get by without cellphones?

Unless you have the proper enviroment to make it work properly, it's not a good idea.

The blog just barely or should I say hardly touched the topic in any kind of serious manner. I personally think the sub is an appropriate tool to use in any studio and mixing without one is akin to mixing using only headphones. Not to many would do that from what I gather reading the posts here. 


I used 5" Mackie monitors for a long time. I saw a good deal on a 10" 100w powered active Polk (home stereo) sub woofer and decided to take a chance. 
Knowing Polk makes fine audio gear, if it didn't work on the studio setup I would move it to the TV room. 

A bit of adjusting and playing some commercial CD's to get it sounding right was all that was needed to get it tuned to the room. 

(I also have ARC in my studio) 

I would not mix without a sub and now I rarely turn it off for tracking or mixing.  I'm not so much worried about the noise and rumble down there as I am about hearing what the bass guitar, the kick drum, and the lower piano and guitar notes are really doing. The sub makes all that very evident and clear. The kick drum and bass are critical in a mix and with a sub, you can actually hear the pitch of the kick. It's not just a thump.  

If you know my music you know it's primarily country in style and some rock mixed it now and then.

Does any one of you who play bass guitar use 5" or 8" speakers on stage? Why not? Simple...... Because they don't move enough volume of air. Same thing applies to your studio. Your mix will end up being played (in some cases) on systems with subs in them so you really should be hearing what you're mixing.  5" & 8" speakers will not get you there like a 10"/12" or 15" sub will. 

Without a sub, even with the best of 5" or 8" monitors, you're mostly guessing to one degree or another as to the proper level and tone on the bass end of the mix. Now I do agree that with enough time and some trial and error, it is possible to "learn" what works on other systems..... but I'd rather hear it than to guess at it. 

And as for me personally...... heck, I just like the "ear candy" of hearing that bottom end working like I know it's supposed to. 

Flywheel


They should be one entitled why do I need a subwoofer for. Never needed one before on satelite speakers (computer speakers) see no reason why I need cakewalk to be selling me the idea. Unless its commission based.

So what Subwoofer do you recommend?

Has Roland designed a Subwoofer?

How much do you get paid for advertising?

Bakers bake, KRK sell monitors and woofers.

It's simply something a few of us believe in. I've used subs for probably ten years now and find it useful. I've first hadn't seen people listen to tracks on large multi-sub home theater systems and cars with subs and go "oooh I didn't realize that".


I had an experience many years ago while playing something I'd mixed back on a Bag End system with an Elf sub that went down to like 8hz or something crazy.  There was this very low freq sound in some element and it was tuned in a way that unfortunately it messed up the bass line when audible. It was horribly dissonant and I'd never noticed it. Granted this was a qquick mix, but had I been using a sub I would have noticed it right away.

People have always used various monitors to reference while mixing (boomboxes, crappy shelf speakers, etc). Today, one common listening environment is one with subs (clubs, cars, home theater, etc) so it makes sense for one to reference mixes on a similar environment.

The key is getting a sub that integrates with your system properly and doesn't do more harm than good.

Yes you can, and plenty of people have, mix projects without a sub. But when you get into the land of 6" bass drivers and low to medium level mix volumes, it's hard for me to imagine most people can here what's happening in 20-50hz (or even higher) area of their mixes.