Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Once you hit play or record the audio engine should not stop for anything short of computer failure. Most audio engines don't, Sonar does.

 
Sorry that isn't a very constructive or informational response to my question. Its also misinformed - *all* software will potentially have cases which will interrupt audio or general playback. The data I'm trying to collect are the operations people rely on. Those are the only cases we need to focus on and not waste resources fixing things that don't require fixing.
 

I can't think of any action that won't cause the audio engine to stop where on other software it does not. Different people rely on all of those things. Most understand that if they put in a CPU hogging effect it will stop, but little things cause the Sonar engine to crap out. I have had this through 20 computers right up through my current i5 and i7 machines. And yes, you can stop Live, but you have to mean it to do it. I can't recall ever having done it, but it must have to happen. Basically, I believe that slip editing, fades, turning plugs on and off (not inserting) and general playback should never interrupt the audio engine. Why is there an on/off button anyway. Why not just always have it on? I can't think of a time when I need it off and the only time it gets off is completely involuntary.  I promise that if you make Audio snap like it was in 8.5.3 and make the engine solid, I'll put up with the silly redesigned GUI.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Hi Folks,
 
We do understand that this feature is important to some user workflows. Over the years we have worked on making various operations "gap" free . I acknowledge that we still have areas that we can improve on. Some are relatively straightforward and some are not. Like anything else the work involved for this gets prioritized along with other features and user requests some of which are more pressing than this area.
 
There are some operations that are pretty seamless today - e.g. inserting most plugins, moving clips, tracks etc. Some aren't such as changing the tempo map. I'm curious which edit operations you currently have problems with, are the most important to be gapless for your workflow. Disclaimer: I am not soliciting information for X1B - there is absolutely no time to do anything related in this timeframe. At this time I'm more interested in understanding the workflow in which you encounter such problems. Perhaps there are areas that we aren't aware of that shouldn't be doing this, etc. Thanks and please keep comments focussed on this topic.
 
 

I would add slip editing of groove clips and/or non groove clips - and especially when (for some reason) they exist on the last track in the track view.
 
Also - along with that 'last track' issue -- if I move a clip (usually a groove clip sequence of a few bars) I get a dropout about 60-70% of the time.  It's very project dependent, I admit, but it happens.
 
This is in both 8.x and X1, btw.
 
 

HumbleNoise


People, please, focus on Noel's question.

You have the ear of the Chief Technology Officer of Cakewalk and he's asking for specific cases and operations where the audio engine stops so he can prioritize those operations and get them fixed. Take advantage of that ear. Please.

(I wish I knew more about it but I don't feel qualified to comment but there are many others here who are)

We have a serious difference of opinion on that. You feel that it is somehow a privilege to have him here when he should be here and should be seeing what we think about a very serious issue. A company does not exist but for it's customers and a company benefits from listening to us.

10Ten

FastBikerBoy


In answer to your question Noel...............

I'd like to be able to.........

Turn effects on & off, both singularly and using the global effects button.
Slip edit clips
Change loop times
and of course change screensets.......


That's not to say it always drops out doing these, but it does from time to time. The worst offender for me is the effects on/off and loop time changes.

That was my list, except for screensets.

I would also like to see muted clips removed from memory or at least be able to archive clips or grousp of clips. This would reduce memory and make the engine more stable.

Yes but you're not using X1, or so you claim. I assume your list is referring to 8.5. Besides which the more a certain issue crops up the more likely the issue is to get fixed. Isn't that your mantra?

10Ten

HumbleNoise


People, please, focus on Noel's question.

You have the ear of the Chief Technology Officer of Cakewalk and he's asking for specific cases and operations where the audio engine stops so he can prioritize those operations and get them fixed. Take advantage of that ear. Please.

(I wish I knew more about it but I don't feel qualified to comment but there are many others here who are)

We have a serious difference of opinion on that. You feel that it is somehow a privilege to have him here when he should be here and should be seeing what we think about a very serious issue. A company does not exist but for it's customers and a company benefits from listening to us.

Your bitterness, negativity and apparent sense of entitlement are really not helpful. You make some good points, but they're buried so far beneath this type of attitude that they get lost. 

EDIT: Just remembered that we have a "Block user" feature here. I think this is the first time I've ever felt like using it.

With due respect Live and Fruity are fine apps and were designed primarily with live playback in mind. SONAR on the other hand has evolved from a more traditional sequencing application into the hybrid application that it is today. This doesn't imply that it cannot or won't ever improve in this area but its important to realize where we have come from. In any case back to the original post - so far it seems that there are a handful of legit operations listed that need improvement. Try and keep it to the ones that really matter and not obscure or infrequent things.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

With due respect Live and Fruity are fine apps and were designed primarily with live playback in mind. SONAR on the other hand has evolved from a more traditional sequencing application into the hybrid application that it is today. This doesn't imply that it cannot or won't ever improve in this area but its important to realize where we have come from. In any case back to the original post - so far it seems that there are a handful of legit operations listed that need improvement. Try and keep it to the ones that really matter and not obscure or infrequent things.

I personally think just covering some of the things in this thread - which aren't many, but have impact - will go a long way toward how the audio engine 'feels' if these were taken care of.
 
There seems to be some consensus as to what those items are, at least.
 
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Understood. The Matrix itself is gapless on its own. If there are specific operations you find that aren't please list them.
Also you use the term Audio Engine pretty loosely. A lot or most of the issues listed here have little or nothing at all to do with the functionality of the audio engine itself. If anything they are related to the sequencer engine or other general areas in the application. Generalities like this just confuse people.

All I know as someone that isn't on the dev team is that the audio engine turns off when they happen.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Understood. The Matrix itself is gapless on its own. If there are specific operations you find that aren't please list them.
Also you use the term Audio Engine pretty loosely. A lot or most of the issues listed here have little or nothing at all to do with the functionality of the audio engine itself. If anything they are related to the sequencer engine or other general areas in the application. Generalities like this just confuse people.

Noel,
 
I think you are directing that at me?  We are all using the term "audio enginer" loosely then.
 
But for me, being able to load up plugins without gaps, being able to turn FX on/off without gaps, and those types of issues (moving clips without dropouts another one) are all what I would call "audio engine".
 
If you want to enlighten as to what does constitute "Audio Engine" vs "Sequencer Engine", I think we could all benefit from any explanation you'd offer.
 
 
If not directed at me, sorry.
 

As far as gapless audio goes, i hardly ever have dropouts, unlessi do something extreme like an external insert on a bus while in the middleof playback, the only plugs that stop sonar are waves andonly on bus's

I can edit, copy paste, an not stop play back

Dappa1


Has anyone mentioned being able to press record whilst the "audio engine is running".No I am not talking about punch in punch out. RECORD!

ps does this initiate anyway?

You can do it with a MIDI track at least.  And I thought they added in that functionatlity for audio at some point?   I don't use it (that way) so never tried.
 
 
 
 

How about the ability to create a new instrument track, open a vst,  arm it for record and record midi data?  

Can all of this be done without the engine stopping?

Depends on the vst.... 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

Understood. The Matrix itself is gapless on its own. If there are specific operations you find that aren't please list them.
Also you use the term Audio Engine pretty loosely. A lot or most of the issues listed here have little or nothing at all to do with the functionality of the audio engine itself. If anything they are related to the sequencer engine or other general areas in the application. Generalities like this just confuse people.

That is understandable as you see the application from the inside. We don't so we don't know where those borders lie. What counts for us users is the experience. Anything that causes an audio gap or glitch is likely to be considered a failure of the audio engine even if it is due to something entirely different. These gaps in audio playback is what I, and I believe others, are referring to.

UnderTow

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

I think we should all be clear in these cases as to whether we are taking about the engine stuttering for a second when performing an operation or  whether we are talking about actual drop outs where the engine stops completely.

I'm talking about dropouts.