eratu
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Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effort
Dear Sonar Community, Cakewalk Developers and Decision-makers, We've been having a great discussion privately and publicly about how to bring momentum to move Sonar in the direction many of us want, especially regarding professional workflow issues. Many of us have felt very strongly that Sonar's workflow is one of the major areas that needs significant attention in the next release. Among our supporters are professionals and DAW enthusiasts who have a great deal of experience using Sonar as well as other DAW applications and/or have many great ideas that can enhance the professional workflow features inside Sonar. We all collectively and strongly encourage Cakewalk to seriously consider focusing on these workflow issues in the next few development cycles, to solidify, enhance, refine and elevate the workflow features as a priority over other efforts. We agree that we would prefer these improvements over any new plugins, content or new/add-on features that Cakewalk might have in the planning stages. To that end, we have organized a community-supported "Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List" and bring it to Cakewalk's special attention. We rely on Sonar as a key tool for our music production needs, and we often have many feature requests, but we are frustrated at times by the seeming direction and focus of the product when a new release does not address specific, core workflow needs that many of us have in common and have been requesting for a long time. Currently, we realize there are various channels through which we can communicate our feature requests to Cakewalk, which consist of the following: the formal feature request system ( http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/FeatureRequest.asp ), building consensus in the forum (less effective, but we know they read the forum), via official surveys which Cakewalk periodically initiates, and via personal contacts within Cakewalk. However, there is little coordination of our efforts submitting feature requests, and even less official feedback from Cakewalk with regard to our requests and their status. Perhaps a revamped, transparent feature request system would be an ideal tool to help coordinate and focus our efforts and help Cakewalk in the years to come. While such a system is beyond the scope of this letter, we ask Cakewalk to consider opening up their feature request system in the future. Certainly, there is a balance that Cakewalk is attempting to accomplish between innovation in the marketplace, attracting new users, and maintaining their existing userbase, and we realize that Cakewalk has a mature internal process to determine the development schedule of new features. However, for this new development cycle, we want to take this opportunity to raise special awareness of our most important workflow requests to the highest level. Our objective here is to organize our efforts, focus and consolidate our workflow feature requests, more effectively target the decision makers within Cakewalk, and in general to help Cakewalk focus more of their efforts on workflow areas that the majority of us truly want. Please know that we don't intend to supplant Cakewalk's own decision-making process, but rather *supplement* it with the best, concise, and widely-supported list of feature requests that brings together the best ideas from the Sonar community. So, this is what we propose in detail: 1) We have compiled the Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List after reviewing dozens of workflow feature-request threads and hundreds upon hundreds of posts in the forum, and after extensive private and public discussion. 2) The final Top 10 list attempts to bring the best ideas into focus. We believe we've hit on the most popular and critical improvements, and we ask for your support for these ideas. We also invite comments from the broad Sonar community to include in the public record before we formally submit this letter and list to Cakewalk. A link to this thread will be included in this letter. 3) This Top 10 list will be formally submitted to Cakewalk on December 7th, 2009. We need to give Cakewalk as much time as possible to seriously consider our list so they can include some or hopefully ALL of our requests in the next few releases. We realize some requests may take more than one development cycle to accomplish. 4) We all *sign* the list, preferably with our real names (for maximum impact, but username is fine if you wish to retain your anonymity), and then one of us will physically print this out and mail copies to Cakewalk key decision-makers, sort of like a petition. The current plan is to mail to the following key decision-makers and influential inside advocates at Cakewalk: Greg, Noel, Alex, Brandon, Carl and Steve. 5) Simultaneously, we will cut and paste the "Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List" verbatim and submit it through the existing feature request system as well. Those who wish to join us in submitting to the existing feature request system, please do so the week of December 7th, 2009, once the letter and list have been mailed to Cakewalk. 6) We want to gain the maximum support from the Sonar community possible, but we realize not everyone's personal favorite may be in the list. Keep in mind that if your favorite idea is not in the Top 10, just by discussing it in the thread, it will raise awareness of it, be part of the public record and be a reference for Cakewalk and the community. 7) Please feel free to sign this post with us! Join us in supporting this push for workflow improvements and we will add names below if you request it, as signatories on this letter. We hope that Cakewalk will most seriously consider our community efforts and take this "Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List" as a major part of their development effort for the next release of Sonar. Thank you to Cakewalk for their great product and to the Sonar community for your support! Below, please find attached the official "Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List" for your consideration. Warm Regards, James Durham (eratu) Jose Cabrera (Jose7822) Alistair (UnderTow) Marah David Baay (brundlefly) Rod (nPrime) Ted (SONARtist) Scott R. Garrigus (garrigus) Vincent Kwok Dave Townsend John Worsham Legion Peter Matuchniak (aka VariousArtist) Rothchild ...wicked Notecrusher Michael Vogel (MUDGEL) Jonathan Constantine Fred Holmes SongCraft - Greg Stevenson Tom (Saintom) candlesayshi Peter Knight (Wiz) Greg Webster Lorne Bitner (lorneyb2) eBlue Frank Johnson Eric Beam - (AKA rhythminmind) Mike Fitzgerald Dave Escobar Scott Lavelle Steven (SilkTone) Stephen McNamara (aka Steve Mac) James Collins Dave (Dizzi45Z) Stevie326 Hugo (hugojacquet) Muziekschuur at home Wren (fwrend) Colin Jones (THE CJ!) kevin rossiter (kevvvvv) Marek (rainmaker1011) Terry Lawhon Andy Wiest (AndyW) ericzang Susan G Gary Yoder Rick Tucker Steve E Ed W. (InstrEd) Music Miscreant Glyn Barnes - (AKA Glyn Barnes  ) The Wookiee Eyjolfur Gudmundsson mike_mccue Cattapan MatsonMusicBox tarsier Doghouse Riley windsurfer25x David Baer David Miller Brendan McEnaney (Damp Sneaker) Jesse Melcher Johannes H Matt Finley (Riojazz) Steve E Jim Yeomans myconsumerclub ggg Dave Meindertsma (dmmi) Reece aka Beagle Russell Graham (RTGraham) Tommy (Tommy01) Dilaco1 Ludwig Bouwer Mike (Telecaster) himalaya Pete (Reegs) Howdy chaunceyc Bo McKenzie (aka Space Cowboy) planist
post edited by eratu - 2010/01/14 08:13:43
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Jose7822
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 11:24:19
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Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List with Broad Support from the Sonar Community December 7, 2009
1 - Arrangement and Editing Environment
'Ripple Editing' and refinements on existing editing tools in general, for fast selecting/moving/editing/deleting/adding clips in Track View. We need tools that will save us time, in not only complex projects with many small clips, but also smaller projects that aren't locked to a tempo. Tools that emphasize the need for deep flexibility and control. With 'Ripple Editing', for example, clicking and moving one clip will cause all the following clips and envelopes to move perfectly along with it. This is best implemented at both the track level and project level with keybindable toggle, as well as a toggle in an improved Track Inspector1. Ripple editing should also have the option to snap, governed by the selected clip and snap settings with the ability to show +/- offset time in samples, seconds or timeline format. If these features are not possible for the next release, then at least add "Select All Following" to allow all clips to be selected following the Now-Time Marker, with intelligent node behavior when clips are moved and nodes overlap. This feature is found to one degree or another in many DAW and video applications such as Reaper, Logic, Cubase, Vegas, Final Cut Pro, and others.
In addition, a related major feature in this category is 'Arrange Modes', which allows for an easy way to arrange projects. There are various ways to do this. One way would be to enter 'Arrange Mode' and selecting project sections on the Time Ruler that you can easily cut and paste, etc. If you cut, the hole gets removed, even when there are no events present in the track. If you paste, everything slides back in from the insert point. EVERYTHING in the project must follow. That includes frozen data, so that, if one unfreezes a track after re-arranging, the frozen data is still in sync with the project and not where it used to be before arranging. This can be set as an option, of course. One mode to hard cut everything at the selection boundaries, and another mode that does not cut any clips that overlap the selection boundary. Most likely it will need options (perhaps a dialog) for copy and paste.
Another way to achieve something similar is a Play Order View2. A user creates sections in the 'Arrange View' by adding 'Arrange Markers'. Once all the sections in a project are marked, they can be sequenced in the Play Order View.
The Envelope Lanes mentioned in the Envelopes and Automation section (below) would also enhance editing and arrangement.
2 - Command Access and Customization
Macro system where all commands and actions would be available through a keyboard shortcut. All commands should be user-assignable anywhere on the menu and toolbar system, including user-created top level menus, submenus, toolbars, and even individual buttons. Better short-cut manager with resizeable window and searchable functions. When nothing is found with 'Locate Key', keep the 'Locate Key' window open. When clicking on an assigned function, show connecting line (and not just from key to function). Clip Gain Envelope keyboard shortcut, etc.
3 - Envelopes and Automation
Envelope Lanes: Envelopes can either reside on the Main Track Lane or they can have their own dedicated, individual Envelope Lanes. Right click context menus allow moving an Envelope from the Main Track Lane to the dedicated Envelope Lane and back. In addition, a Button on every track to expand all Envelopes to Envelope Lanes and back. See also the Track Inspector1 for more details. Automation modes3: (Touch/Latch/Offset with Merge/Read/Write), Global Automation Suspend (suspend/enable all volume/pan/mute/send/other automation read/write). See the Track Inspector 1 for more ideas. Fast and easy envelope editing/management tools that would enable us to highlight parts of an envelope and vertically move these sections vertically with automatic node creation. Ability to copy envelopes via CTRL+drag (like you currently can with Audio/MIDI clips). A precise and intuitive Envelope Draw Tool that draws straight lines and other complex shapes with more accuracy. The ability to treat the project's Tempo Envelope as if it were a normal envelope to which one can freely add nodes and even assign it to a Continuous Controller of your MIDI keyboard for easy tempo drawing. This Tempo Envelope would live in its own Tempo Track, as well as in the Tempo View. Clip envelopes should allow +24 dB of gain.
4 - Plug-in Management and Access
FX Chains:
Save your favorite FX plugins in sequence and recall them at any time without having to use Track Templates and then moving the audio clips into them. You can easily select any FX Chain and hear how they instantly change the sound of your tracks.
Better Plugin Manager with the following enhancements:
A Registered Plugins Pane that can be sorted by name, date added to Sonar, file date, directory (In increasing/decreasing order and expandable/contractable, of course). Option to show columns with plugin location (A column for the folder it resides in and a column for the full path name). Option to "Write Directory Structure To Menu". In other words, if all the plugins are in a directory tree inside the Plugin Folder, pressing this button generates an identical menu structure. If more than one plugin folder is specified, the various folders get separated by a Menu Separator. Add an option to Merge directories with identical names. Options to list all plugins already in the current menu structure or all the plugins not included to quickly find plugins missing from any menu.
5 - Project and Media Management
Project Management enhancements: The ability to import data from an existing project with options to include or exclude Tracks, Busses, Envelopes, Clips on Tracks, Video Track, Sends, Inputs/Outputs etc. Options to import the data to new Tracks/Busses or existing Tracks/Busses (with selection of sources and destinations). Options to keep the data at the original timecode/musical time or shift it, etc. See the Pro Tools implementation for more details. Choose the Sample Rate when creating new projects without depending on the current Global Sample Rate setting. The ability to change the project's Sample Rate without leaving the project, preferably with a choice of external Sample Rate Converters (SRC) in the Tools menu (i.e. being able to add SoX SRC, which is better than Sonar's built-in SRC). Ability to 'Rename' a project and its containing folder simultaneously. Media Management Enhancements: Audio Pool with pool import/export and batch functions (i.e. batch renaming, converting, moving, deleting, tagging and organizing). There should be the possibility to load media into a project without it being on the time line, just in the Media Browser. One should also be able to select a group of clips and export them as a pool and re-import that pool into another project. The Clean Audio tool needs to be revamped or replaced by the Cakewalk Audio Finder (CWAF) Tool. In either case, these tools need to include a way of searching specific folders to avoid scanning the entire system. More control over how saved and exported audio clips are named. Various Export Dialogue enhancements (see Pro Tools, Cubase 5 and Reaper for more ideas). 6 - Video Post and Scoring Enhancements
Current Video Frame Follows Audio Edits4 Clip Boundary Now Time: An option so that when selecting a clip, the Now Time moves to the front edge of the clip instead of the place you click with the mouse. Nudge Function Enhancements5 Integration of 23.976 FPS. Better video playback of QuickTime HD files. Streamers, Visual Click & Find Tempo features similar to those found in Digital Performer.
7 - Universal Track Architecture and Routing Matrix
Universal Track Architecture. (UTA) A Track = a Bus = an Aux. If input = Hardware Input -> Track; If input = Softsynth -> Track; If Input is Track = Bus. A Full Routing Matrix which allows for situations not covered by Sonar's Universal Bus Architecture. Bus outputs should be routable to track inputs (UTA would cover this). Bus editing features such as deleting multiple Busses simultaneously, being able to undo Bus deletions, automate Bus mute/solo parameters, and allow full snapshot functions on Busses (UTA would also cover this). Selecting a Bus automatically highlights all the Tracks routed to it (it could just be something that makes it faster and easier to see what is feeding a Bus, even if it's just "tool tips" that pops up when hovering over a Bus input control that listed the source tracks). A Routing Matrix would cover this, but any added clarity and quick visual feedback is always welcomed! Sorting Busses with colors and routing Busses to Track inputs with/without feedback blocking would also be nice additions.
8 - Synth Rack and Freeze Improvements
Freeze and unfreeze all/multiple/single synths/tracks. (Ability to Freeze a single Synth Track in a multi-timbral synth). Reveal frozen data in sub-lane: For arrangement purposes, show a kind of ghost track in a sub-lane that reveals all the frozen data. (Clips with MIDI data or waveforms). This should be a global, as well as a per-Track setting in the Track Inspector1. One should also be able to re-arrange softsynths in the Synth Rack, and simply right-click on the Track's Pane to insert softsynths.
9 - Staff View Improvements
Staff View improvements including:
Easier way of inputing and editing notes including Tuplets, Triplets and other odd note groupings (i.e. 5's, 7's, 9's, 11's, etc). Inclusion of more Dynamic & Expression markings with corresponding Velocity and Controller Lanes. Also an Articulations Lane. Expressions and Articulations mapping to keyswitches. Better Chord input. Inline Staff View in the Track View (similar to the inline PRV). Option to simultaneously view notation data along with Controller data in PRV. Ability to easily copy/paste chords/expressions/dynamic markings/lyrics from one stave/track to another. Ability to change spacing between staves and number of staves to be printed on a page.
Overall, ways to make it easier to work in Staff View emphasizing the need for deep flexibility and control.
10 - Various GUI Enhancements
Nested Folders for Tracks/Busses with per-folder volume and pan faders. This means every folder becomes the equivalent of a VCA group. Timing Grid in the Arrange/Track View that goes all the way down to 1/256th, plus the ability to display, snap to and quantize to a mixed grid (i.e.: 16ths and triplet 8ths - instead of having to use the least common denominator 32nd triplet). Button on every Track to expand all envelopes to their individual lanes and back. Snap to Grid toolbar where you can always see and adjust your snap and display grid settings for all views directly, plus a check box to synchronize snap and display grid settings in all views. Loop markers should Snap to Grid when moving the whole loop by dragging the line in between the markers. Global Tracks or Tempo Track: Like that found in Logic Pro 9 or Cubase 5 where the Tempo Envelope meter and key of the project reside on a separate pane/track/lane above the Track Pane (similar to the Video Pane in Sonar). This makes it quick and easy to edit/view these parameters without having to access multiple views. Native/improved V-Vocal/Audiosnap. (i.e.: see Logic's Flex Time feature, Pro Tools' Elastic Audio, Cubase/Nuendo's Vari Audio, Samplitude's Elastic Audio, etc). Track Inspector1 overhaul. Two modes: Narrow mode (like current), wide mode. Both modes should have many more features than currently. See Track Inspector1. Mode-less windows: A Keyboard Shortcut opens a window (For instance the Snap to Grid Window6). Change a setting in the Snap to Grid Window6, press the same keyboard shortcut used to open it and the window closes (or just press ESC). A three-way color mode in the PRV showing at a glance whether events are early (green), late (amber), or nowhere near (red), the nearest snap grid location with the limit being a user-specified (preferably with a slider) percentage of the snap value. This way you can see at a glance, what's going on in terms of timing accuracy relative to the grid you've specified, and what needs fixing. General call for more granular and flexible color management as tools for workflow/organization (i.e. for Busses as already mentioned, but also for groups, tracks, mixer, perhaps even clips, etc.). Overlapping tracks in GUI + Quick track resize (See Cubase). This save a lot of screen space. Also, track height memory when using CTRL-U and keyboard shortcut for minimizing/opening track heights. Waveform size reflects Clip Volume Envelope changes. In other words, the drawn Waveform is the actual waveform affected by the Clip Volume Envelope level. The same thing goes for Fades. A centered Now Time screen scrolling mode (Tape Head mode). Ability to make maximized windows on secondary monitors behave like the Track View window and not allow other windows to be hidden behind them. Option for Mousewheel zoom without using modifier keys. Track spacers in Track View and Console View for multi-monitor setups.
We would like the Cakewalk developers to consider the actual workflow of users and the number of clicks needed to achieve a particular result. Please look at the Snap to Grid Window6 note below for an example of what we mean.
Notes and Additional Clarification
1 The key improvement for the Track Inspector is the need for deep flexibility and control. For example, an improved track inspector should have the following features, perhaps reorganized into tabs or other rapid-access method, that are collapsible or customizable to give us more information or screen space when needed: AMSRF (MSR+ Archive and Freeze), I/O and Routing, EQ and Plot, resizable FX Bin, Extensive Envelope & Automation toggles/settings, Edit (lock/unlock Track, enable/disable Ripple Editing mode, select Track Envelopes), Remote Control, Metering, MIDI Inspector and a toggle to show frozen data in a sub-lane for arrangement purposes.
2 The Play Order View is used to rearrange track sections marked with Arrange Markers into regions. A user can quickly try various arrangements/sequences of the marked regions. The user needs the option to include: frozen data/tracks, archived tracks, and/or clips at Arrange Markers (to prevent/allow clip overlap into the next region).
3 Additional notes on Automation Modes:
Read Mode: As current Write Mode: As current Touch Mode: The Envelope is overwritten while the parameter is being changed and while the user keeps the mouse button pressed or simply touched with a touch sensitive Control Surface. As soon as the parameter is released/untouched, the Envelope returns to it's previous value. It does not return instantaneously however. A user defined option determines how fast the Envelope returns to its previous value. Latch Mode: Same as Touch Mode except that the Envelope keeps getting overwritten at whatever the fader/button/parameter was released until it is moved again or playback is stopped. Offset with Merge (Touch): The old Envelope remains visible during playback while one tweaks a parameter and a new (bright red) envelope is drawn as an offset of the old value. As soon as playback stops, the new Offset value (in bright red) becomes the new Envelope. (This is different to Sonar's current Offset mode that doesn't merge after playback stops). This would function in the same way as the Touch Mode in as far as releasing the parameter/button/fader would return it to its previous value at the preset rate. Offset with Merge (Latch): Same as previous but with Latch behaviour. 4 When you grab a clip or an Envelope node and move it around, or when you trim a clip, the current video frame position follows your drag movements. This is standard behavior in most major DAW apps that support video now. The video scrolls/follows in the video window (or on your extra screen if the video is going to a Firewire output). This means that if you want to drop a sound FX or a note on a specific event in the video, you just drag the region while keeping an eye on the video output until you find the right spot in the video and drop the clip or note there. It will be perfectly in sync.
5 NUMPAD Nudge Keys should nudge the Now Time Marker when nothing is selected. Individual "Nudge Now Time" setting per Nudge Row: There might be situations where you want to have events selected, nudge the now time but not nudge whatever is selected and not lose your selection. For this it would be nice if the three nudge amounts (NUMPAD rows) could also have an option to only nudge the Now Time. An individual setting for each one. This means you could, for instance, have NUMPAD 1 and 3 nudge left/right by 1 frame; 4 and 6 nudge left/right by 3 frames; and have 7 and 9 nudge left/right by 1 frame, but ONLY nudge the Now Time even when you have clips selected (or the other way round if you prefer). Hence the individual settings per NUMPAD row.
6 An ideal workflow would be something like: You press a keyboard shortcut, the window opens. The Snap To Grid value is already selected. The user can either directly type in the time division they want or press the up/down arrows on their PC keyboard to use any of the standard values. Hitting TAB once would bring the user to the "Move To" / "Move By" selector. Press the same keyboard shortcut to close the window. No need to grab the mouse. The user can return to doing whatever they were doing before. This would save a lot of time over the course of an entire project.
There is also an entry in the Various GUI Enhancements section (above) suggesting a Snap to Grid toolbar. That would be very nice but would not replace the Snap to Grid Window. It remains necessary for deeper control and would allow Keyboard Shortcut access. (Not having to grab a mouse). Alternatively, the Snap to Grid toolbar would have keyboard access. Whatever happens it must have much faster keyboard access than it has now.
post edited by Jose7822 - 2009/12/07 16:03:30
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garrigus
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 11:38:49
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Hey guys and gals, That's a great list! Although, I think it's probably too ambitious for one development cycle. Then again, I don't have any official "pull" as to how Cakewalk develops SONAR... so I could be wrong. In any case, feel free to add my name (Scott R. Garrigus) to the list because I think those are all great suggestions and I'd be happy to lend my support to the cause. Best, Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/ - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/ Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/ Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/
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UnderTow
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 11:41:06
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garrigus
In any case, feel free to add my name (Scott R. Garrigus) to the list because I think those are all great suggestions and I'd be happy to lend my support to the cause.
Best,
Scott
Great! Thanks Scott, UnderTow
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eratu
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vksf01
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 13:06:19
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Hey James,
Add my name to the list.
Vincent Kwok
I'm not sure if you have space for #11, but the loop explorer really needs to have tempo sync'd loops for those loops that aren't already acidized and a volume control.
Anyway, the current top 10 is still a great start.
Thanks
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UnderTow
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 13:14:13
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vksf01
Hey James,
Add my name to the list.
Vincent Kwok
Great Vincent! Thanks for the support. I'm not sure if you have space for #11, but the loop explorer really needs to have tempo sync'd loops for those loops that aren't already acidized and a volume control.
Apparently that is one we don't have to worry about any more. From the 8.5.2 update list: Alex Westner [Cakewalk] Media Browser - New mode to preview any audio/MIDI content in sync with project tempo
Cheers, UnderTow
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eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 13:29:50
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vksf01
Hey James,
Add my name to the list.
Vincent Kwok
Thank you, sir!
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...wicked
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 13:37:16
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Mine: - Varispeed
- Key-bindable clip envelopes
- "rubber band" track height to widgets as a default option
- Keyboard shortcut for minimizing/opening track heights
- Track section groups (ala ACID, Cubase, etc) so we can grab groups from the timeline
EDIT: whoops, this was already sort of suggested - Note-on record start (recording starts on key-press)
- Centered Now Time screen scrolling
And a "+1" to: FX Chains, integrated/upgraded Audiosnap/V-Vocal, Modal Windows
post edited by ...wicked - 2009/12/02 13:38:24
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bitflipper
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 13:38:51
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I agree with Scott: it would be too much to expect that all those issues might be addressed in a single update, or even two.
However, I heartily agree with the message, which is that the kinds of improvements we'd most like to see are workflow and useability enhancements.
Put my name on the list.
Dave Townsend
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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dmbaer
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 13:47:21
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I'm not sure if this is a sub-feature of item 7 (universal track architecture) or something else entirely. But I (and I know more than a few others based on past threads) would like to see an integrated virtual MIDI cable feature, or even something simpler like a MIDI-thru capability.
Other than that, it seems to me item three (envelopes & automation) should be at the top of the priority pile. I'm still very much a novice and have not tried using envelopes, but from all the horror stories I've read here, I'm scared to even try.
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eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 13:48:35
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bitflipper
Put my name on the list.
Dave Townsend
Done, and thank you for the support!
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Legion
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:00:49
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That was an excelent list! Sign me up. 3 - Envelopes & Automation Maybe ad envelopes that don't act like they are orphaned if you accidently move the GUI-slider, to audition different settings for example but not wanting the envelope to stop working)) with the mouse after the envelope has been created... (I don't actually know if this has been fixed already because I've to afraid to try since S7). 4 - Plugin Management & Access
[...]a better Plugin Manager that clearly shows newly added plugins.
Maybe also with the option to display the plugins listed with the folders they are contained in or oterwise sortable with the usual windows options and not merely in alphabetical order. Great initative Bit! All the best /Legion
Sadly very reduced studio equipment as it is... ASUS G750J, 8 gb RAM, Win8, Roland Quad Capture.
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VariousArtist
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:02:21
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Count me in on the list: Peter Matuchniak (aka VariousArtist) At this point, given the countless hours I am in front of Sonar doing tons of edits and juggling lots of large projects, it's all about workflow for me. I have more to add to the list, but I'd be happy if just a few of these got implemented. Every feature that saves a click will add up to a large percentage of saved time for me.
post edited by VariousArtist - 2009/12/02 14:04:06
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John
Forum Host
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:02:25
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Count me in too. I fully support this document. I applaud the hard work Jose and Eratu have done on this.
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DonM
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:17:54
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E:
As a user of multiple DAW's I would love to see some common and unique items in the list for Sonar. Let me know how I can assist.
-D
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eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:20:35
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John
Count me in too. I fully support this document. I applaud the hard work Jose and Eratu have done on this.
Thanks, John! We really appreciate your support! I was really hoping you'd sign on! Jose was amazing, as usual. I want to thank him as well. I owe him some drinks. :) He is my pick for the "Greatest Forum Member" award! ;) I also want to recognize the contributions of Alistair (UnderTow), Marah, David Baay (brundlefly), Rod (nPrime) and Ted (SONARtist) as well. And of course, all the many people who have been submitting feature requests and forum threads that made all the difference in putting this effort together. Thanks again, sir!
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eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:21:54
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DonM
E:
As a user of multiple DAW's I would love to see some common and unique items in the list for Sonar. Let me know how I can assist.
-D
You just did! :)
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eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:24:38
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VariousArtist
Count me in on the list:
Peter Matuchniak (aka VariousArtist)
Done! Thank you!
Every feature that saves a click will add up to a large percentage of saved time for me.
Amen to that!
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eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:28:21
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Legion
That was an excelent list! Sign me up.
Thank you! Signed up as requested. BTW, I'm hoping some of the bugs you're describing in automation are fixed in 8.5.2
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Rothchild
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:41:10
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Ok, put me up. Even though many of these features would probably have very little impact on me, my vote is as much for some 'good 'ole' core product development rather than spending time bundling throwaway plugs.
I have additions to 7 though:
I really want control over the status of a send when inserted (can be a preferences setting, but 'up and on' continues to do my nut)
As a suggestion, can there be some distinction when clicking a buss (to see which tracks are routed to it) whereby Shift-Click (or some combo) shows tracks that have sends routed to that buss?
Cheers
Child
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Thrillington
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 14:58:33
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I think this targeted letter an excellent way to effect change. It feels positive.
Because I am only a learner DAW user I would feel silly endorsing a call for features I don't really understand. That doesn't mean I won't be using the features you request in a couple of years though.
Good luck with the campaign, brave signees!
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Jose7822
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:00:28
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eratu
John
Count me in too. I fully support this document. I applaud the hard work Jose and Eratu have done on this.
Thanks, John! We really appreciate your support! I was really hoping you'd sign on! Jose was amazing, as usual. I want to thank him as well. I owe him some drinks. :) He is my pick for the "Greatest Forum Member" award! ;) I also want to recognize the contributions of Alistair (UnderTow), Marah, David Baay (brundlefly), Rod (nPrime) and Ted (SONARtist) as well. And of course, all the many people who have been submitting feature requests and forum threads that made all the difference in putting this effort together. Thanks again, sir!
I'm just happy to be part of this. I also wanted to mention that it is truely a pleasure working with James (Eratu), who originally came up with this idea. Same goes for the rest of the people mentioned by James (above), who gave such great input and helped us take the original approach to the next level. Lastly, I wanna thank the people who have shown their support us so far. It's great to have this kind of reception and I hope it keeps building up. Keep 'em coming! Let's make Sonar the best DAW ever! Take care everyone!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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wetdentist
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:21:19
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1) i hate tabbed view, but it is the default for every new project. how can i make that stop?
2) if i have "snap to grid" ON, then why shouldn't the yellow loop marker bar also snap to grid? it's a pain having to zoom in on the track view ridiculously far in order to get an endpoint of a loop marker to fall directly on a zero
3) how about Step Sequencer 2? if i build my own kit out of Battery 3 (which i most often do) and i get to a place in the track view where i want to place a new pattern, i push the button on Battery 3 to open up the step sequencer, but it's as if the step sequencer has no clue as to what's telling it to open up!!! it's a Battery 3 kit with 20 cells, and they all have names, and they all make sounds; but Step Sequencer 2 doesn't know that, so none of the rows have names, and almost none of the sounds play (and this requires time that could be better spent making beats as opposed to typing names and finding their note numbers)... also, shouldn't drum maps be able to be created automatically from a custom-built Battery 3 kit?
these are a couple things that've come up recently, so i thought i'd chime in
3.5 Ghz AMD 6-Core/16 gigs RAM, Roland Quad-Capture, Win 10, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Komplete 10, z3ta+, Z3TA+ 2, Rapture, Maschine 2.7 (MKI & Jam), Melodyne 4 Studio, Ozone 4, Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, Schecter Damien Elite, Fender Sonoran w/TronicalTune Plus installed, etc go here to hear Wet Dentist (2000-2016 RIP) my new sounds: The Das Kaput
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kevvvvv
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:21:32
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In Romulan mode: "By all that is good, can you earth fools not see that that all your so-called advances are worthless, without meaningful improvements in a friction-free workflow substructure!" kevvvvv Hopeless Noob to Sonar (Member 14 and Mod over at KVR  )
Sonar 8.5 PE x64 www.rossiterandco.com Omnisphere, Nexus, Blue, Jamstix, BFD, Sylenth, Kore, Kontakt, DCAM
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fwrend
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:21:56
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+1!
I don't get the time I would really like in the studio and with Sonar, so I tend not to voice much constructive criticism, however, I am definitely for fewer clicks and a more efficient & logical workflow.
However, a big thumbs-up - nice work gentlemen - thanks for the well thought through requests!
Signed,
Wren
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...wicked
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:45:04
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In case it wasn't obvious, piling my own wishes onto this thread was consent to add my name to the master list. I might not be passionate about all the items on it, but I agree with trying to cull together a collaborative list. The last few times it has been done have been great exercises.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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Notecrusher
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:53:40
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Fantastic list, tnx for the hard work, add my name to the endorsers.
One addition I'd love: Fit Loop to View -- resize the loop selection to fit maximally in the clips pane.
Also another vote for minimize all/restore all shortcuts for track strips.
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Jose7822
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:54:52
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Rothchild
Ok, put me up. Even though many of these features would probably have very little impact on me, my vote is as much for some 'good 'ole' core product development rather than spending time bundling throwaway plugs.
I have additions to 7 though:
I really want control over the status of a send when inserted (can be a preferences setting, but 'up and on' continues to do my nut)
As a suggestion, can there be some distinction when clicking a buss (to see which tracks are routed to it) whereby Shift-Click (or some combo) shows tracks that have sends routed to that buss?
Cheers
Child
Rothchild, Thanks for your support! We really appreciate it :-) Our approach was to compile as many of the most wanted features that have been requested over the years, keeping the list as realistic as possible. We didn't want to create an infinite list of features, but rather assemble one that was more focused on workflow, which is what most of us believe is missing in the current version of Sonar. However, we are aware that some people will want to have certain features added to the list, which is why we are including a link to this forum on the letter. That way Cakewalk can verify the response to this thread, as well as the requests submitted by you guys. We may even include them in an addendum to the letter above. But I want to emphasize that our goal was not to create an overwhelming list of features, as that can prove futile and detriment focus. Well, again, thanks for your support. Take care!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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SONARtist
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor
2009/12/02 15:59:01
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Thrillington
I think this targeted letter an excellent way to effect change. It feels positive.
Because I am only a learner DAW user I would feel silly endorsing a call for features I don't really understand. That doesn't mean I won't be using the features you request in a couple of years though.
Good luck with the campaign, brave signees!
Thanks Thrillington ! Don't worry, we all started somewhere, sometime ago. Thanks for the support for the campaign. In general, and to all: It is a thrill to see so much positiveness to this thread !
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