Living Room Rocker
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/10 03:42:34
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Hi Brandon, In response to your post No. 88, I think the key word in the OP is "gapless". That is, when preforming a specific operation the audio playback seems to halt momentarily or stutter and then resumes at some point. I would also add that a drop out might be a more serious problem. But it would equally important to distinguish between the two when describing a problem with continued playback. Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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rainmaker1011
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/10 13:39:26
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So many people have been complaining about or pointing out the non-existing gapless audio engine in Sonar for years and despite the fact that CW has improved the engine only a little, the same people keep buying the paid updates year over year. Why? Why don't we stop buying the updates until CW include in one of them the fixes we want and need? Until the specs of any future update says "significantly improved audio engine now allowing to insert FXs during playback without drop-outs"?
It was said in this thread that Sonar is based on a 20-year old code base and this can have influence on its inability to offer a gapless audio engine... Well, I think many problems Sonar has are because of the old code base. Maybe it is the right time for a code base rework, not only UI rework...
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dappa1
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/10 17:14:53
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Agreeable statement RainMaker 1011
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pwal
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/10 17:42:52
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Jeff Evans
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/10 17:48:58
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I agree with rainmaker as well and in fact it is the main reason I don't use Sonar as much anymore. Since getting Studio One I have been totally amazed at how well this program functions in these areas.
But it is not just gapless performance that is the reason but in fact there is another side to this and that is being able to loop over a section of music and simply and elegantly be able to switch tracks while in record. This is something that a few programs cannot do including Pro Tools and Sonar among others.
For example if you read Brandon's response to me on this at post #186 on page 7 of this thread you will see that he has experienced pretty good performance in many areas with his setup and that is great except you still cannot switch tracks while in record. To me this seems like a basic requirement. If you have got various synths either virtual or external setup on these tracks it is just amazing to be able to do this by simply using the up/down arrows. As soon as you switch tracks in Studio One the track is armed and if you are in record it goes into record for you as well. If you are in play you can still switch and audition. You can go into and out of record painlessly as well. If you are a good keyboard player you can build up incredible tracks fast! And all without loosing a step in the music.
You can also do the usual stuff of dragging effects and instruments out and play them and tweak away and edit of course and do almost anything while the music plays and without any glitching of any kind and you do not need a super computer either to be able to do it. It is something that is built into the software not computer dependant.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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backwoods
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/10 19:33:13
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Hi Jeff,
I agree 100 percent. Studio One and ABleton are both amazing at it and even programs like Cubase are far advanced in comparison to our beloved Sonar. The only other DAW that seems to trip up as easily (with VSTs especially) as Sonar for me is Acid Pro7.
My first DAW was Sonar 7 and I've learned alot about recording music with Cakewalk products but unless they get the audio engine sorted out ASAP I'm not going to buy any more. Life's too short when there are good alternatives. An ultimatum...
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gothic.angel
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 03:58:23
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Jeff Evans
I agree with rainmaker as well and in fact it is the main reason I don't use Sonar as much anymore. Since getting Studio One I have been totally amazed at how well this program functions in these areas.
But it is not just gapless performance that is the reason but in fact there is another side to this and that is being able to loop over a section of music and simply and elegantly be able to switch tracks while in record. This is something that a few programs cannot do including Pro Tools and Sonar among others.
...You can also do the usual stuff of dragging effects and instruments out and play them and tweak away and edit of course and do almost anything while the music plays and without any glitching of any kind and you do not need a super computer either to be able to do it. It is something that is built into the software not computer dependant.
....have to agree.... these are facts.... ...SONAR is a huge DAW in many areas, but it is sure about time for it to FINALLY provide above capabilities... ...no excuses or explanations, not any longer, can change this fact.....
post edited by gothic.angel - 2011/09/12 07:25:29
GothicAngeL - EBM - Dark Electronics______________________________SONAR Platinum ∞, Rapture ProSAMPLITUDE X3 Pro Suite, FL Studio 12, Reason 10
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dappa1
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 07:59:13
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I would like to drop money on Sonar but the glitchyness is not something I really want to bother with. My eye is on latest badest newest DAW out there and the reports are good the forum is good and I heard the support is good. Yes Sonar would save me money the other DAW would save me a little less trouble.
I came from Cubase where I felt excited about working on the fly now to stop start stop start. Sighs becomes a bit of a chore. I used another product that just sailed along an I was torn again.
Sonar is excellent the best I have used it's just one or two things that has let it down. I may just put my pennies on our DAW of choice while looking behind me at the other up and coming. I never wanted to but my hand has been forced.
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Manolo
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 09:38:01
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I've just tried the demo of Studio One. I have gliches just by recording an audio bass track. I have glitches randomly at record and at play. I usually use 48 samples of buffer with no problem with Sonar. It's perhaps the "good" side of a no-gapless engine.
RME Fireface UC | Sonar Platinum x64/Windows 10 Pro x64| Superior 2.0 with all Toontrack soundbanks, Eastwest Complete Composer used in Kontakt 5, Ozone 5 | VS-700C, BCF 2000
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mudgel
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 10:19:16
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Another great Studio One feature that goes along with the gapless engine is the ability to drag and drop an fx on an existing fx and replace it rather than have to delete it from the fx bin in a seperate step, all while playing back or recording. a small but useful little feature that is invaluable when auditioning different fx.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Manolo
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 10:32:22
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mudgel, at what buffer size can you run Studio One without glitches with one audio track in the project please ?
post edited by Manolo - 2011/09/13 02:35:21
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pwal
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 10:45:38
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@manalo, fwiw i can use 64 samples in s1 (with a single audio track) without glitching, but that's with a PCI audio interface not FW (on a win7-32 q6600) though i generally use 128 or 256
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mudgel
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 10:46:52
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48 samples is as low as my RME device will go.
At that buffer size I can run and record much more than one audio track with multiple tracks, fx and VSTi inserted and running.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Manolo
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 10:57:17
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My soundcard is an RME Fireface UC an I have specs near yours (I just have an ASUS P6T SE instead of your Gigabyte MoBo) and no glitches in Sonar X1 even with large projects but glitches with one audio track in Studio One Demo 1.5 at 48 samples buffer size:(. I'll give an other try.
post edited by Manolo - 2011/09/13 02:34:57
RME Fireface UC | Sonar Platinum x64/Windows 10 Pro x64| Superior 2.0 with all Toontrack soundbanks, Eastwest Complete Composer used in Kontakt 5, Ozone 5 | VS-700C, BCF 2000
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brundlefly
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 11:01:34
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Jeff EvansSince getting Studio One I have been totally amazed at how well this program functions in these areas. Hey Jeff, did you ever get around to checking out the MIDI transmission delay issue with Studio One I posted about? http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2230884
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 11:38:38
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Question , what would this behavior fall under?
System Specs. 2.8 quad core , W7 64 bit. 8 gigs of ram , Nvidia 4800hd SLI, SSD Harddrive. Roland Quad core Interface.
I very rarely get the dialog box ever for drop outs. But when I do get pauses in audio its when the project starts to complicated , I still never passed 3 gigs of ram used according to the Control bar module. But I do get those pause's if I grab a knob for instance in Z3ta-2 , the audio stops for a second and resumes , only when I press move that knob for the first time during play back. after that I am able to tweak that knob without any pauses, but if I touch a different knob in Z3ta for the first time in the session I get that pause,, Obviously my specs and interface are current. so Im wonder is this whats called the gapless audio bug so to say..
I would really love to never hear a pause whats so ever...
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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Splat 
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/12 11:44:54
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So to clarify:
.... and elegantly be able to switch tracks while in record
So Preferences -> Project -> Record -> Allow Arm Changes During Playback/Record does not do this elegantly, even with non buggy drivers?
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Manolo
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/13 04:27:01
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I have to set my buffer size to 96 samples in Studio One to avoid glitches. It seeems we can't import video so I give up.
RME Fireface UC | Sonar Platinum x64/Windows 10 Pro x64| Superior 2.0 with all Toontrack soundbanks, Eastwest Complete Composer used in Kontakt 5, Ozone 5 | VS-700C, BCF 2000
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Freddie H
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/13 09:23:17
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-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Jonbouy
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/13 09:45:38
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Freddie H
This help me---> http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2378593
Yes we know....  @Manolo, 64 samples here in S1 more than one audio track, adjusting loop points while audio is running, all devices enabled no glitching. Sonar same setup, only one output enabled, looping... blech! I didn't like S1 although, the audio engine wasn't one of the reasons I have reservations about it.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/13 09:50:23
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Manolo
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/09/13 10:21:11
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It seems to react differently depends of each setup.
RME Fireface UC | Sonar Platinum x64/Windows 10 Pro x64| Superior 2.0 with all Toontrack soundbanks, Eastwest Complete Composer used in Kontakt 5, Ozone 5 | VS-700C, BCF 2000
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cyphersuit
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 12:00:47
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Decided to go gapless. Thinking about Studio One 2 or Cubase 6.5. I am really curious about the gapless engines. Will try the demos this week.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 12:23:22
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My system is pretty much gapless.
I can do virtually everything on the fly with no glitching
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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cyphersuit
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 12:34:49
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X1d keeps crashing on me, that's the first reason to look elsewhere. My system should run fine, too. (i7 26k, 16 GB Ram, two SSDs, two 2 TB harddrives, Win7, MOTU interface)
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vksf01
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 12:58:21
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try inserting a plugin (especially a virtual instrument) while the project is playing and it'll gap, guaranteed Bristol_Jonesey
My system is pretty much gapless.
I can do virtually everything on the fly with no glitching
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Kewl Hendagang
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 13:20:19
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Everybody here needs a serious reality check. No patch can fix the audio engine. Gapless audio isn't happening unless CW rewrittes the core of the engine (and pretty much the entire application AROUND that core) from the ground up. We`re talking a minimum of 2 years of development - So unless CW secrettly has been doing this for an X2 during the last 17 months, gapless in Sonar can`t be done. Their focus on selling add-on plugs is no good sign that they`re working toward fixing the situation.
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bapu
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 13:28:28
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Kewl Hendagang
Everybody here needs a serious reality check. No patch can fix the audio engine. Gapless audio isn't happening unless CW rewrittes the core of the engine (and pretty much the entire application AROUND that core) from the ground up. We`re talking a minimum of 2 years of development - So unless CW secrettly has been doing this for an X2 during the last 17 months, gapless in Sonar can`t be done. Their focus on selling add-on plugs is no good sign that they`re working toward fixing the situation.
Actually I'll disagree. The plugin developers are more than likely not the engine developers. Think about it..... put a team of two to three developers on plugs. That frees your entire development team for serious work. As the head of software development in the past I created a bug fix team and a development team. It's the same concept.
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Kreative
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 15:34:05
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I thoroughly enjoy stable and gapless audio because in X1 I can't even delete an unused instrument track while the audio engine is running without having X1 lock up on me. I finally tired with all of the large and small annoyances. For all that X1 does, it has serious issues that sometimes make it truly annoying. I wish I could say otherwise, but this is my personal experience. After investing 400 of my hard earned dollars on X1, I had wanted to succeed, but don't have the time to invest in unproductive detours of my time and energy. X1 is my second or third choice DAW, depending on what I'm doing.
Windows 7 64 bit, Sony Vaio Laptop Q740, 8 GB, Sonar Producer X1d, Focusrite Scarlett 18i, Korg Pa500, M-audio 61 Radium Keystation. Using Omnisphere, Trilian, Komplete 8, Morphestra, Orchestral Essentials, Evolve, Orange Tree Guitars, Addictive Drums, BFD2, Melodyne Editor, Studio One 2, Ozone 5, FabFilter.
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bapu
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 15:36:03
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I don't use X1...
...when I'm in the "library".
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Kreative
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2012/04/16 15:40:13
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Would that be the public library or Kontakt library?
Windows 7 64 bit, Sony Vaio Laptop Q740, 8 GB, Sonar Producer X1d, Focusrite Scarlett 18i, Korg Pa500, M-audio 61 Radium Keystation. Using Omnisphere, Trilian, Komplete 8, Morphestra, Orchestral Essentials, Evolve, Orange Tree Guitars, Addictive Drums, BFD2, Melodyne Editor, Studio One 2, Ozone 5, FabFilter.
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