Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Hi John and Marled,
 
Lifetime updates had nothing to do with this event. In the business plan and how it was presented to users it was never intended not to offer every feature free forever. The intent was to offer frequent updates where all bug fixes and certain CORE features would be free but major new or premium features would still cost money. i.e. it would be similar to an in-app purchase model.

 
I read in another thread about this and I like this model very much! And I think such components like the "Adaptive Limiter" or the "Drum Replacer" I would be willing to buy all the time as additions, if the prices were reasonable. I believe also in the success of such a model, because you would get a lot of new users and great loyalty to the company.
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
The SONAR team was very small for most of the time in recent years it was at a max of 4-6 engineers - mostly superstar players. I don't hesitate to say that we had among the best in the world. Dedicated people who really knew their stuff and could deliver amazing stuff in really short time frames. Developers at other companies were always shocked when they learned how small our team was. 

 
Great! This is exactly the way I am convinced is best for software development (self an IT guy). Now I totally understand how you could develop such an amazing, if not the best DAW (at least for me)!
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
... Additional manpower is not necessarily a solution to this problem since you can add 10 more people and it could actually make things worse if they introduced more problems. Small focused superstar teams are by far the most effective and we had some amazing dedicated people.

I do 100% agree to that!
Thank you very much for your recent posts and explanations! And of course for this powerful DAW that I like! I will use Sonar Platinum in any case, without regard what will happen in the future.
 
Marcel

ampfixer
Noels comments are interesting but they shed absolutely no light on the current situation. He maintains that the plan was good, there were world class developers and they were doing great things. *But why then couldn't they make any money?
The really nice LP plug-ins, the drum replacer and that amazing adaptive limiter should have been paid for add-ons according to the announced business plan, but they weren't. I'm a lifer and I wouldn't have had any problem paying for them. I expected to pay for them based on the Sonar For Life announcement. But they dropped the ball. No follow-through. The Cakewalk CEO has yet to make an appearance or offer an explanation. Was Noel actually the one running the company and making the business decisions? 
We still don't know anything

 
*Presumably because they didn't sell enough copies of Sonar. If overheads and production costs were equal to, or more than turnover, there was no profit.
 

ampfixer
Noels comments are interesting but they shed absolutely no light on the current situation. He maintains that the plan was good, there were world class developers and tthey were doing great things. But why then couldn't they make any money?
The really nice LP plug-ins, the drum replacer and that amazing adaptive limiter should have been paid for add-ons according to the announced business plan, but they weren't. I'm a lifer and I wouldn't have had any problem paying for them. I expected to pay for them based on the Sonar For Life announcement. But they dropped the ball. No follow-through. The Cakewalk CEO has yet to make an appearance or offer an explanation. Was Noel actually the one running the company and making the business decisions? 
We still don't know anything

 
There is no Cakewalk CEO and hasn't been one for over 5 years. I was co-general manager last year and take accountability for the decisions in that year obviously. Regarding the LP's, had I been in charge of the business side this year all I can say is that they would definitely have been an in-app purchases :) Those are amazing plugins and the guys who developed it were top notch. 
 

This is a little OT but after a nice session with the Bitwig demo this afternoon something really stood out to me with regards the idea that Sonar was not doing enough to attract the attention of the current glut of young bedroom producers (surely a huge part of the growing market). And that is the flexibility of Bitwig's FX chains (or device chains as they're called). If you watch any course in the production techniques of modern genres, you're going to see a lot of layering and parallel processing. A lot of stuff is divided into frequency bands and processed separately. Examples would include things like isolating the mids of a bass track and saturating them. Or compressing just the highs of an unruly synth patch. Or splitting something out into mid/side and compressing just the sides.Splitting the signal in an fx chain like this has infinite creative possibilities, and modern producers are exploiting these possibilities in their productions. 
 
Of course none of this is impossible with Sonar. You can use aux tracks or buses. There are 3rd party plugins which offer separate left/right, mid/side or band processing. However, Bitwig (and I believe Ableton) has this functionality hard baked into their fx chains and it's a piece of cake to set up. Any "device" can have its own fx chain - devices in those fx chains can have their own fx chains and so on. So you can have these recursive chains going on. And at any point, you can split the signal for parallel processing - you just insert the appropriate signal splitting devices. For instance, there is a Multiband FX device - you adjust the crossover frequency, and the lows and highs each have their own fx chain. Same goes for mid/side and L/R. 
 
If you frequent places like EDM production forums, you quickly see that the kids are now heavily invested in this style of production. DAW's like Bitwig and Ableton make it easy, and this ease is very apparent in the tutorial videos made with these programs. In more traditional DAW setups like Sonar and ProTools, it takes a lot more effort (and 3rd party investment). The ease and convenience of being able to do this kind of processing in one single track without having to set up auxes and sends has been very enlightening for me. I always felt like this was a direction the ProChannel should have taken. 

Noel, Thanks for dropping in and doing what you can dispel many false speculations. Even as a programmer who should be "in the know" I'm prone to them from time to time about software I've not developed. Imagine what a non-programmer can speculate on.
 
And really how many marketing "experts" are on this forum? By my count everyone here fancies themselves at least an intermediate marketing guru.

you'll be like the last guy on the  Xbox Halo server bapu- https://www.kotaku.com.au...y-halo-2-on-xbox-live/

Thanks Noel Borthwick for your informations 
I won sonar since 4 was released,  then I've had Sonar4, - 8 - 8.5 - X1 - X2 - prochannel(whit all suite)- X3 - Platinum.
I have no intention of giving up Sonar for at least another year (I think it will continue to work considering that my DAW has an MB intel DP55SB  and an I5 750), sincerely hope that Cakewalk will be acquired by someone crazy enough to believe that they have the best product a studio can have for their customers.
I really hope that a person so crazy to believe it, I hope for me and for all those who do not want to leave Sonar ... now a companion of almost 1000 songs.
I'll be wait ...
 
elix from englandbross
 
#cakewalkdontdie 

haydn12
I don't think most people on this forum realize how small the actual music industry is. 

There is a music industry...?

Cactus Music
I can't understand those who blew hundreds of dollars just because they were panicking. 

Panicking?

People moved to other DAWs because they read this:
http://www.cakewalk.com

...and were given decent offers for other DAWs.
A dwindling customer base is becoming ever smaller and the staff are no longer around.

I don't see any panicking, maybe a little anger that can't be directed anywhere useful.

If the change on the activation mechanism does get released this month for all the products (not just Sonar, there is Z3TA and Rapture Pro etc to consider) then I fear there will be more anger.

As Noel no longer works for Cakewalk I'm not sure how any of this is reassuring, unless you feel it is safe in the hands of Gibson considering its current situation

Even if Cakewalk got "saved" I doubt it will be made to compete against other major DAWs, it will probably be more bargain bucket app. The dream of it being a major player is certainly over.

marledI will use Sonar Platinum in any case, without regard what will happen in the future. Marcel

I'm doing that too. Unlike the others, having done the lifetime for Platinum and using Sonar since Twelve Tone days over 20 years ago, I'll say again what the core concern is. I know folks running Cakewalk 8.5 and earlier on older Windows 7 and XP machines, some not connected to the Internet for safety. For them, it runs, it's all they need. Updating to Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum was to have the latest and best and I only have one main PC and a mirrored laptop. The concern is Windows 10 update. It's brutal. I've had to uninstall "Creators Update" twice (well - actually - not uninstall, I had to use my (thank God) latest version of Acronis to restore a working version, as I encountered scores of problems. It just takes a few lines of code that prevents Sonar from opening in the future versions of Windows 10 (since supposedly there is no 11 and beyond anymore). Major updates like that really in some way ARE a new version update. Win 10 after Creators is different enough from the first release to have been Win 11 or even 12. Like Apples's IOS 11 - they are public beta testing garbage.

The update scheme forces them on you unless you disconnect the internet (or disable Update constantly on each reboot (not when you go to sleep luckily, which is what I mainly do) and manually update just those for security (until they fixed the damned Creators Update). Given the subscription models here, given the power of Go Fund Me, and so much more, the one main thing should be keeping a group together, be it the five star programmers there, even if they all work from home (even if just part time) to make sure Sonar keeps opening after you do an install of a Windows 10 update. That's it. Don't care if Sonar puts out one piece of new software. I can't imagine feature updates I'll need in the next decade. I buy every VST imaginable (spending embarrassing money) that will ultimately do everything I need. I'd be happy to pay $50 - $100 a year as a core supporter (call us that then) who just wants Sonar to keep opening projects new and old for the next 5-10 years. Or 20 years (I'll be too old to care then). There always is the chance it could be picked up by another company.
 

InstrEd

julianochrisway
Returning to the future of Sonar. Thank you Noel for confirming what I posted. But what worries us is that Gibson will continue with Cakewalk. I sincerely prefer that they sell Cake to some really responsible company that is willing to change the scenario. It is for example I teach music production and Sonar is the Daw that all my students use. Now I need to upgrade and I'm going to add FL Studio as well. I will continue to use Sonar and hope that this problem is fully resolved.

You might want to contact Acoustica. They have an Educational program and might cut you a good deal now.
Also they have this:
https://www.acoustica.com/edu/

I really love Sonar and have used Cakewalk since the time of Pro Audio. But I have a music production school, and the students are worried. Most of them love Sonar but the concern is that I need to keep staff always using the tools that are standing out in this industry, students always want things current and up to date. Unfortunately I have an obligation to already teach a new Daw they can not expect a huge company like Gibson to solve their pending for loyalty otherwise I will start losing students if my competitors offer current products to them, so I am thinking of FL Studio because currently is the winner of all the polls that I came across and every day more users. FL is very different from Sonar, I do not want any Daw to remember Sonar. I want one that is innovative and that really stands out for me to provide student safety. I am very well paid by my students to keep them updated.

About Acustica: I took a look at Mixcraft and am giving a chance to this DAW, it seemed to me a super intuitive daw, but I have not done a big sweep of plug-ins, the price has also attracted and really the package they are offering to music schools is something I would like Cakewalk to bring back if I simply copied the idea. The price fits in the pocket!
They are also offering migration to Sonar users (everyone wants a slice of that cake)

As for me, personally speaking I'll be waiting for the outcome of Gibson's problem, which Noel said was exactly what I thought was happening. And by no means will I be abandoning my Sonar Platinum, everything is working very well and I'm working on an album with Sonar and it's getting incredible. I will still continue to use in class normally, especially for students who are willing to wait and do not want any immediate migration. But it's important that this issue be resolved at least until April 2018. Competitors are not giving up and are fighting over former Sonar users. This way you will lose a good part of the customers.

I agree with Cactus. I'm using 8.5 Studio and it's fantastic (for me, of course). I feel no need to buy a new DAW. I did buy Reaper in 2015, and used it until the heinous news about Sonar broke. but then I decided to get my 8.5 Producer working again, since it would be the latest Sonar version I had. It had all the same problems that led me to go to Reaper. So I installed 8.5 Studio. Perfect. I don't know why Studio works and Producer doesn't doesn't. But I can work twice as fast in it than in Reaper. So, unless another DAW is clearly superior to Sonar, why not wait and see what happens? I can see making one purchase, taking advantage of a deal, but buying 2, 3 or more as some people are doing? it just seems like a waste of money. I don't buy something because it's on sale. I but it because I need it. But then, it's your money. And don't forget the time it will take to learn new software, which may turn out to be not as good. Remember, you can use Sonar almost indefinitely if you're careful.