abacab
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 19:11:59
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marled
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Regarding BandLab you have to understand what its designed for and the target audience. Its a mobile platform intended to be easy to use and collaborative. Its actually way more evolved than Momentum and has the right balance of editing, capture, social and collaboration tools. For many that's all they need and a DAW would be overwhelming. I personally find web/mobile applications that try to do too much counter productive since advanced editing is not what most people use such devices for.
That is exactly what worries me! I realize that a lot of us including me do not fit into their target group. We are not a part of this playful young facebook-iphone-generation that always wants more whenever it is new! I think for plenty of us this is the reason why we have chosen Sonar and not one of those contemporary toy DAWs!
I think our demographic needs to accept that there won't be enough of us in a few years for a company to make a living selling us tools. For better or worse, BandLab and others need to look for a market that is growing, not shrinking. The world is changing, and it has always been a young persons world. I remember watching the Ed Sullivan show with my parents when the Beatles were introduced to the states, and my father thought it was the end of civilization. But we somehow survived. He was a professional musician, but he never liked rock and roll. He said anybody could get a guitar and play 3 chords. Ha! 
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Johannes H
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 19:37:37
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LOSTinSWIRL
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 20:20:38
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This is really good news. Nice to see that it will live on. Rock on.
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deswind
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 20:34:25
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We need to be realistic. A new company can honor the lifetime updates and go under in a year. Does that help anyone? Or it can come up with reasonable charges for improved updates and perhaps stay in business for more years.
I think those are the realistic choices. Any complaint about the lifetime updates should be directed at Gibson - not this new company - at least from the information I have at the moment. Someone else may know more.
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MrFun61
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 20:36:43
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Great news and it sounds like fairness is part of your thinking for those who have invested over the years with a "no cross-over/cross-grade" fees approach to keep and maintain what we own now while making the product ready for future upgrades and enhancements. Seems most likely such new features and changes will require additional investment but understanding that all of these benefits cost money to create, market and sell - in order to do it well, an that's what we all want anyway.
I actually didn't truly believe Gibson (or anyone else) could honor a "lifelong no further investment needed promise" even thought I bought and paid for it - especially in a day and age where subscription models are required for software companies to sustain positive development and growth plans, which a ways require fresh cash!
Thank Meng, we appreciate you already.
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marled
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 20:38:17
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abacab
marled
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Regarding BandLab you have to understand what its designed for and the target audience. Its a mobile platform intended to be easy to use and collaborative. Its actually way more evolved than Momentum and has the right balance of editing, capture, social and collaboration tools. For many that's all they need and a DAW would be overwhelming. I personally find web/mobile applications that try to do too much counter productive since advanced editing is not what most people use such devices for.
That is exactly what worries me! I realize that a lot of us including me do not fit into their target group. We are not a part of this playful young facebook-iphone-generation that always wants more whenever it is new! I think for plenty of us this is the reason why we have chosen Sonar and not one of those contemporary toy DAWs!
I think our demographic needs to accept that there won't be enough of us in a few years for a company to make a living selling us tools. For better or worse, BandLab and others need to look for a market that is growing, not shrinking.
The world is changing, and it has always been a young persons world.
I remember watching the Ed Sullivan show with my parents when the Beatles were introduced to the states, and my father thought it was the end of civilization. But we somehow survived. He was a professional musician, but he never liked rock and roll. He said anybody could get a guitar and play 3 chords. Ha!
Partially I agree. But I like to note that there are already a lot of youngster DAWs on the market (=a lot of competition), whereas the DAWs for a mature audience are shrinking. So I believe there is a niche market for that. I understand that BandLab is surely not the right company for that, but Cakewalk was! I think for us older generation it would have been better if Sonar died and we got a key for local activation!
... many years before ...
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daveny5
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 21:20:46
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Thank you, Meng, and welcome. I slept a lot better on Friday night after reading this great announcement. Thanks for communicating with us. One thing you will realize is that one of Cakewalk's greatest strengths has been this user forum. Everyone from beginner to expert can learn or share something of value here. I'm also happy that Noel will be part of this to bring his years of expertise with Sonar to the table. I'm looking forward to seeing what BandLab Technologies can add to Cakewalk's products and what new things I may be able to do using your tools. I'm excited at the prospect.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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Anderton
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 21:30:21
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I'm sure Meng will chime in but you can rest assured that SONAR is not going to be dumbed down. The addition of SONAR completes BandLab's ecosystem by adding professional desktop production to their mobile platform. That's the way I see it too, particularly with SONAR being able to offer "the next step" for users who were raised on mobile. BandLab didn't have a next step before, but they do now  I think what a lot of the "oldsters" may be forgetting is that they all started somewhere. Music has always been a discipline that not everyone is willing to learn - there are a lot of starter guitars and keyboards sitting in closets. But if those coming up can have a gratifying musical experience easily, it gives them the incentive to take it further. I've known quite a few DJs who after DJing for a while started learning an instrument because they wanted to continue to evolve. It wouldn't surprise me if for some people, the mobile BandLab approach becomes the "gateway drug" to an eventual lifelong interest in pursuing music.
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stratman70
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 21:48:19
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Dear Bandlab,
Hoping this question is OK. I ask with sincere interest and respect.
I would like to know, as a Sonar lifer since the early 90's if I choose to use my Sonar Platinum as it is today will I be able to do that? I mean re install on a new pc or laptop down the road, etc. We heard promises of an "activation algorithm" from prior owners and now that seems to be gone?
Thank You very much
Frank L.
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abacab
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 21:58:40
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stratman70
Dear Bandlab,
Hoping this question is OK. I ask with sincere interest and respect.
I would like to know, as a Sonar lifer since the early 90's if I choose to use my Sonar Platinum as it is today will I be able to do that? I mean re install on a new pc or laptop down the road, etc. We heard promises of an "activation algorithm" from prior owners and now that seems to be gone?
Thank You very much
Frank L.
That question was already answered by Noel. BandLab acquired the server backend from Cakewalk intact, so no interruption will happen. http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3731449
post edited by abacab - 2018/02/25 23:06:54
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Sir Les
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:02:58
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Hello Meng....MMmmmm.
From my perspective, the hot potato was sold, to avoid any possible legality pressure from those who were told and promised things....shown things and...lead down a oddly blinged out path....windows os brought into issues, and now perhaps....Intel Cpu's might be holding as other hardware issues, being now dealt a revealing of weaknesses in some of, being behind poor performance of....and the constant update paths many had to endure transition after transition of..and more of updates for the updates...for more updates to those updating...
So, what is old but new is now new but still old....or might be completely new, but not saying, and cannot say....So.
Cheers to you and hopes...Noel takes off the auto remove post thingy....Wink wink.
And,....The I hate this rant ban practices on long winded Rants....Eh Noel?
And as I have not sold my licence....Cause I knew they could not hold this out as dropped...or cut...or closed...Because they were paid per paid to keep it going.....""that is what Life time means"...well it depends on meanings sold as...no no no.>.as words mean said!
Now on with the show?....Best of luck...Keep us in the loop with the truth be told.....And you got helpers, coders, and trouble shooters.....The best I know...Are here, and I know the flies will be found, and hopefully removed from the batch....and perhaps OS MS might be sought some remissions, and intel for the cpu flaws that may be behind the down fall of many apps and coders businesses, costing too much to keep track and fix, because os keeps changing, and entering the issues to arise...time after time..again and again!
The circle needs to come to a solution...(of which with my gear) may not be possible to gain full performance with TB2 or 3..and MS OS platforms....of which I always have issues with something interfering with something hardware on the motherboard and external audio device/midi..
I think these areas are paramount to make rock solid...and proper sync, and irq exclusivity be made paramount....The worded manual setup for tip top performance of the Bandlab's rendering of...Be broadcast the proper tested and true machines for the best performance and setup be held in box, as a hard copy manual...and downloadable....made ready.
Let us hope the RND of, is at beast top of the line ready, and constantly updated in gear testing and routing the issues with said standards of asio or other best audio drivers and proper vst emplimants of third party plug ins and apps for DAWs, as instrument vst-I, becomes more compatible, and stable, with this notice of new hope.
Best foot forwards....Remember the Force Luke!
Cheers and ...breath is being held...good in, good out!
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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julianochrisway
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:06:45
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I'm reading some posts on the forum. Some people are creating a "new concern to worry". I can totally understand why Bandlab bought Cakewalk and why the Bandlab product can help sonar as well as sonar can help the Bandlab. Bandlab does not have a product made exclusively for professionals who use computers in the studio. They have a product focused on musicians, composers who use multiple devices mainly mobile devices and social networks and works as a great community of music.
This works in a simple way, the musicians needed a social network that fit the way they think. Bandlab is in fact a social network in DAW format as we know it, is a product where musicians collaborate with each other's projects after this work it is clear that this project will need a DAW platform empowered to edit and work on that audio. That's where the Sonar comes in. That's where the studio comes in.
That's a basic way of thinking I don't want to go too deep, but I believe that a well-crafted idea can make both products much more expansive. Bandlab in itself I was striding about 10 minutes ago, that's just what I said, you have followers and people who like your projects and TBM can follow them. For you to open the software (have an account) you can create an account or open using your Facebook account and creating a nick in lowercase letters.
Bandlab on PC works with Chrome is not compatible with Edge. The system itself is very basic, does not recognize your MIDI controller USB. But it recognizes your sound card (the MIDI inputs from it from what I realized) and you can use your PC keyboard as MIDI controller (I'll still look this over calmly) also felt a great latency and does not recognize its studio interface, should be why they C You have an interface to use with Bandlab. The idea is very interesting is no need for advanced tools, it is basically a social network in the form of Daw to share musical ideas with other people. Already the Sonar is an advanced DAW for professional use something that the Bandlab did not have until the day 23/02/2018. Now they have a Premium product powerful little team brighter. And I believe that Cakewalk has a lot to teach, as Meng himself said here. Noel has a brilliant mind and knows the professional Daws market like no one else. I see a promising future for Bandlab/Cakewalk.
That's it, I apologize for my English. It's not the best because it's not my native language.
Studio Gears: Interfaces: Roland, Allen & Heath and Other Native Daw: Cakewalk by BandlabMidi Controllers: Roland A88, Akai LP8, Arturia Keylab 61 Essential, M-audio Oxygen 61 V3 PC Setup: Core I7 6700 4.0, Corsair 8GB 2400mhz, 1TB Note Setup: Intel Core i7-3612QM CPU @ 2.10GH, Corsair 16GB (1600mhz)
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toddbooster
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:17:56
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Hello all,
I think this is my first post here. Anyway, I purchased a rent to own subscription two weeks before everything went belly-up last year, so I never really got much of a chance to explore SONAR. In light of this exceptionally good news, I've reinstalled and have been using and enjoying the program again for a couple of days, and am quite hopeful about what the future might bring.
Anyway, I really just wanted to pop-in and say "Welcome", and "Thank-you", and also to suggest ditching the SONAR name and just going back to basics and calling the new version simply "BandLab Cakewalk".
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stratman70
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:36:09
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abacab
stratman70
Dear Bandlab,
Hoping this question is OK. I ask with sincere interest and respect.
I would like to know, as a Sonar lifer since the early 90's if I choose to use my Sonar Platinum as it is today will I be able to do that? I mean re install on a new pc or laptop down the road, etc. We heard promises of an "activation algorithm" from prior owners and now that seems to be gone?
Thank You very much
Frank L.
That question was already answered in the FAQ. BandLab acquired the server backend from Cakewalk intact, so no interruption will happen.
Guess we will see won't we...........
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FemcanLana
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:40:54
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The more I read about bandlab the more excited I get. They seem so awesome! SUPER EXCITED TO SEE WHAT THEY DO! Thank you for saving us!
Elitebook 2540p 4gigs Steinberg CL1 Shure SM7b AKG 240 MKII Headphones
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buffspam
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:42:15
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@Meng
As a happy Sonar user I'm pleased to read about this acquisition. Your opening statement and comments seem to show you have a heart felt desire to see the software of Sonar grow and succeed. I wish you the best and look forward to the work that will go into this wonderful product that lets us express the best side of ourselves. Thank you!
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Sir Les
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:46:37
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Oh, if life time updayes were paid to who ever got that payment for...did not uphold the principle...that money should be ported over to the new owners to continue in good faith!
And nothing lost of the user base will occur...or should come to occur....That should go, as not said....But I can say it....And mean what I say...with out worry!......And I know many saying in asking....Well there is a solution for them...Right here!
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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John T
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:51:30
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The way BandLab have addressed this is slightly oblique, but I think nontheless clear. They haven't taken on the lifetime updates obligation, because they haven't bought the company. They've bought the code for Sonar and presumably some of the other products, and they've independently employed a couple of Cakewalk's developers. But they don't hold any of Cakewalk's obligations in terms of membership schemes and so on. We're all just going to have to let that go.*
* he said, in the full knowledge that it'll be a point of contention on the forums for literally years to come.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Paul G
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 22:56:07
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Welcome Meng and thanks for giving Sonar a new Home! There are a lot of great folks here and I'm pleased we're going to be able to keep the band together!
Paul
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ekamis
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:03:12
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OMG! I bought Samplitude the day before!!
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scook
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:04:41
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/02/25 23:10:41
stratman70
We heard promises of an "activation algorithm" from prior owners and now that seems to be gone?
The promise of an "activation algorithm" was conditioned on the activation servers being shut down. That event has not happened. In fact, the activation process is of BandLab's purchase. Here is Noel's post about this part of the BandLab acquisition.
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scook
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:12:09
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ekamis
OMG! I bought Samplitude the day before!!
The bundle came with a very nice audio editor and spectral editor to add to your SONAR Utility menu for less than the cost of either product.
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toddbooster
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:13:09
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/02/25 23:15:59
There's an abundance of anger fueled paranoia here over a simple consumer transaction. We bought a product from company 'A', who then sold said product to company 'B'. Company 'B' has said clearly that we can continue to use the version of the product we purchase a license to use without interruption. They have also said that in the fullness of time, when they release their version of the product, we as license holders may migrate to that version without cost. There's no logical reason for them to lie or be less than truthful about this, so I don't get all the winging.
As for the lifetimers, "lifetime" never meant your lifetime. I'm certain the small print in the agreement was full of legaleeze to cover exactly an event such as this.
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stratman70
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:19:13
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scook
stratman70
We heard promises of an "activation algorithm" from prior owners and now that seems to be gone?
The promise of an "activation algorithm" was conditioned on the activation servers being shut down. That event has not happened. In fact, the activation process is of BandLab's purchase. Here is Noel's post about this part of the BandLab acquisition.
I give up...
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Sir Les
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:32:41
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John T
The way BandLab have addressed this is slightly oblique, but I think nontheless clear. They haven't taken on the lifetime updates obligation, because they haven't bought the company. They've bought the code for Sonar and presumably some of the other products, and they've independently employed a couple of Cakewalk's developers. But they don't hold any of Cakewalk's obligations in terms of membership schemes and so on. We're all just going to have to let that go.*
* he said, in the full knowledge that it'll be a point of contention on the forums for literally years to come.
I understand nothing of jibberish....I bought a program, and rights to use the program under a licence agreement....I did not buy the company, or the company that bought the company! In my agreement paid...I signed in on....a agreement to have a working copy of...Sonar...And, on PC or other....Of which...I do not have yet working solid. I do not care who bought the code.....I bought a licence, and a updated licence and another, and even another...And one more for the life time fixes promised....Of which are not in the software per say....Yet are upon the OS..mostly causing!....And it hangs onto ...Perhaps some bugs in the code of sonar....I cannot say. All I can say...is to sell out the code...is to sell the product issues with it...And the licences held there of the users.....And I..wish to be one....but , as it is, trust has been violated not only in home..but nations .....and finger pointing of spying or tampering by....Unknows...laying blame on others perhaps, perhaps not...To Cause issues in the world...to make hate, spit and spite be ongoing of....Bull or cow dung flung.... Be mindful...it is not so easy to say...Thanks to MS ...For this mess, or the ones who are putting in bad code....just to frustrate while they move the shell around to keep paying for it be used....at what cost?...How many dead?..How many poisoned?...how many now shooting each other....walking around blinded by the bling bling?...and a new promise of.....Who knows what/Meng said he cannot say.....Not that he does not know! But then we assume eh...I robot!...is not my master!...nor is the beast or dragon what feeds it!...I paid in full!....and I got the ride clear as crystal!...And I thank the one who paid for it, to show me the Truth.
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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ekamis
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:32:56
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I think You are right! 😀
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SandlinJohn
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/25 23:39:49
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stratman70
scook
stratman70
We heard promises of an "activation algorithm" from prior owners and now that seems to be gone?
The promise of an "activation algorithm" was conditioned on the activation servers being shut down. That event has not happened. In fact, the activation process is of BandLab's purchase. Here is Noel's post about this part of the BandLab acquisition.
I give up...
Did you miss the post by Noel where he basically restated the promise, now as a BandlLab employee, that the existing users of SONAR that rely on the activation servers will continue to be able to use their license for SONAR and that should the process change that existing users will have a means of still using their license? From the SONAR Lives thread: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
There is no "Gibson activation" site. Activation is handled both by the application and the Cakewalk webside back end.
BandLab have acquired all assets and that includes the website and back end. So nothing is going to happen to existing activation's during or after the transition to BandLab. If you choose the reinstall the software the same activation process with apply as before.
If we choose to change how this is done in the future of course we're going to make sure that existing customers are not affected so there is no need for needless worry.
(I added the bolding)
Sonar Platinum, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, Intel NUC micro-workstation with 5th Gen Intel i5-5250U, 16 GB RAM and 1.25 TB Storage, Yamaha MG10XU Mixer USB Interface, Yamaha HPH-MT8 Monitor Headphones, Yamaha MX-49 controller synth
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John T
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/26 00:21:06
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Sir Les
All I can say...is to sell out the code...is to sell the product issues with it...And the licences held there of the users.....
You're entitled to your opinion of course. But legally speaking, you're out of luck. Either BandLab will turn out to be generous towards previous Sonar users, or they won't. I think the early signs are positive. But as a matter of fact, BandLab have no obligations to lifetime membership.
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John T
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/26 00:30:30
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It's worth noting that BandLab's core business model is based around free-to-use for their core features, so I think there's no real reason to worry about getting fleeced for money. The larger question is whether the direction this all goes in suits the way you want to work.
I'm happy to give them enough time for me to figure that out. Cloud-based collaboration tools are currently not at all relevant to how I make my living, but life comes at you pretty fast, and audio engineering and production changes all the time in all sorts of ways. I'm certainly happy that Sonar is no longer in the hands of a deluded rich guy who doesn't know it's not 1985 any more.
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/02/26 00:41:35
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LOSTinSWIRL
This is really good news. Nice to see that it will live on. Rock on.
Ditto,i'm also very intrigued to see which way the course will run. Thank you Robert
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