scook
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:05:34
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Vas
Please forgive me if these questions have already been answered.
When does the Intro Offer expire?
https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Versions
is there a Free demo version to help me decide if I should move to Sonar 2015 (AKA X4) from my Current X3.
Is there a user’s manual for Sonar 2015?
The end date of the promo is not set, CW staff have indicated it will be good through January, possibly February. There may not be a demo on day 1 but they are trying to get it out ASAP. The manual will be online when the product goes on sale.
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benvenisti
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:06:17
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Am I missing something? I don't see an upgrade price or path from X3 Pro. Shouldn't that be an option? How about a free upgrade for 20+ year Cakewalk users?!!!!
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scook
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:07:57
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azslow3
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:12:39
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I see this (feature or bug?) almost a month... Should I expect good monthly updates of SONAR then? 
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:12:48
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☄ Helpfulby Del 2015/01/15 11:45:22
azslow3
Beepster
Really the more I look at this I'm kind of thinking Cake have somewhat shorted THEMSELVES. Not the customers.
++
That is exactly my worry... With current statements they cut the possibility to define "sale" prices I don't know what plans are for sales, but Cakewalk has always done sales in the past. they are forced to introduce new features on regular basis Cakewalk is already forced to introduce new features on a regular basis - that's what the yearly updates were about. The only difference is that now you get them when they're ready instead of getting them all at once. They are forced to support at least installation of many versions. Not really. If members update their versions, then there will be fewer variations floating around. Also, the modular installer concept is huge in terms of being able to handle modular installations and rollbacks. And most probably they will be forced to be backward compatible (just think about reverting to the version you "own" after you created a project in newer version). Cakewalk is backwards compatible now. I can open projects created in X3 in X1, for example. It probably goes back further than that, although of course, if a feature didn't exist in a previous version it won't be present. I cross my fingers for them and hope they survive (but I am not going to pay for that, sorry).
Cakewalk has been picking up a lot of new users in the past year and has a parent company that's totally committed to the company's success. The "We're Hiring" on the home page should give a clue about what's going on. I understand some people are reluctant to "bet" $149 on what would have been in X4 and what's planned for what would have been X5. I'm sure there will be glitches along the way; with a change this massive on so many levels, from IT to retail to everything in between, it would be a miracle if there weren't. But Gibson is making a multi-million dollar bet on Cakewalk, and both companies have every intention of winning it by the devilishly sneaky plan of creating tons of happy customers.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:19:00
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nzpaul
I really don't understand the problem with this great offer. If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet, but we're getting effective an X4 and an X5!
One question I do have though. Say I decide to upgrade in 6 months time, obviously the price reverts to $199, but is there anything else you lose out on that you would have got if you upgraded straight away?
Apart from actually using the new software straight away of course :)
I believe the content (presets, loops, videos, tutorials, etc.) will be optional downloads as opposed to part of the program. So you would lose any content that occurred during that time. I've asked if maybe there's some way people could pay for it if they missed it and wanted it, or buy back content if they become new users. For example, right now I'm collaborating on a bass loop library with an A-list bass player who has a very impressive resume. His stuff is great. Haven't quite decided what to do with it yet, but I've suggested selling it as a loop library with REX and Acidized files (not everyone uses SONAR, and it would work with other DAWs) but also including the loops as part of the membership program. In that scenario members would get the loops for free, but new users could buy the library if they wanted those loops.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:33:30
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Beepster I think for the skeptics (which I am) it would be a matter of paying for this year's membership/full upgrade, letting it lapse to see what comes down the pipe in the first few months to see what tickles our fancy and if we think the next upgrade is worth it then hop on. What you're forgetting is that Cakewalk can now be more open about what's coming up in the future, because everything happens more quickly - there's less lead time for competitors to catch up to a new feature. I gave the analogy of magazines with their "Coming up in next month's issue: Interview with Jack White, and Wah pedal shootout!" promos. I truly get the impression that the Bakers themselves do this for the love of the product first and the paycheck (perhaps a very close) second. They want us to like it and want us to have a good product... which then ultimately would result in a larger paycheck too so hey, we get artistic AND free market principles working for us. I've told this story before, but when Gibson acquired Cakewalk, the first employee question wasn't "So what are the health benefits?" It was "So when do the employee discounts kick in?" Poor Andrew, he brought a J-45 just before all this went down. It's the boys at the top saying yay or nay to their development efforts that worries me. Considering it is Gibson though and the fact that Craig has their ear I think we are in good hands. Do not underestimate how much Henry J is into this. When the CEO and Chairman is behind something, that's pretty much all you need. I don't really need to have anyone's ear, but I do help in as many ways as I can, given that I have many other obligations at Gibson...have I mentioned how well Neat Microphones went over at CES? That's my other "baby," and they are going to shake up the world of mics. Good times. Stay tuned.
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Atsuko
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:37:35
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azslow3
I see this (feature or bug?) almost a month... Should I expect good monthly updates of SONAR then?
That's my concern too...
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yevster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:43:48
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nzpaul
If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet...
It's a safe bet that that would never ever EVER happen...
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Paul P
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:47:42
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nzpaul
I really don't understand the problem with this great offer. If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet, but we're getting effective an X4 and an X5!
You only get X5 with no patches to fix its major bugs, so in effect it's not X5. Imagine if something (like the console emulator, or the sustain pedal) breaks everything just when your 12 months are up. You'll have to lose everything that was also included with the bad update. I wish people, especially Cakewalk/Gibson people, would stop using this false comparison. It just confuses things to no useful purpose.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:48:59
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Question:
If I buy the product for $499 up front/one payment, will I have a subscription? Will I get any updates at all?
Alewgro
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konradh
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 16:49:02
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FWIW, Any full-featured DAW is a lot of software and function for the price, especially considering that the user base is somewhat limited compared to general consumer software. Having a monthly option makes it even easier to bear.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:04:09
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As I under stand you get more for being a monthly subscriber.
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:04:20
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Anderton
Do not underestimate how much Henry J is into this. When the CEO and Chairman is behind something, that's pretty much all you need. I don't really need to have anyone's ear, but I do help in as many ways as I can, given that I have many other obligations at Gibson...have I mentioned how well Neat Microphones went over at CES? That's my other "baby," and they are going to shake up the world of mics.
Good times. Stay tuned.
This is completely OT but I have been noticing a LOT of seemingly youth oriented Gibson branding (like you see the Gibson logo on many Adult Swim productions and the like) as well as general branding, a huge push of the Epi line and all sorts of other stuff. Gibson... well I've always preferred their axes and they're pretty iconic in that regard so they COULD rest on their laurels and be totally fine BUT with this heavy HEAVY push forward in seemingly all directions makes me think despite the fact they really could just sit on their butts and continue making money they are opting to expand and innovate. That's why, even though I am always skeptical of the actions and intentions of corporate entities, I was pleased to see them take over Cake (seriously I was furious at the end of X2's release cycle) and honestly am not as worried as I'd normally be over a move like this by another company. I'm not exactly a "youth" anymore but really, for the most part, that will be who (and has) consumes most of my own releases so the old school stuff backing this new push into technology is pretty interesting as a consumer. I think Sonar is probably the best package for a guitar player (which is why I bought it and I'm sure why you seem to be such a loyal fan). If they were going down the Bitwig route or something (which is fine) or trying to force the old sterile PT studio "standard" I would start souring on it but that does not seem to be waht's going on... at ALL. Whatever... I'm not a huge cash cow for the company by any means but so far I'm happy with the direction in general. Now somewhat ON topic... I know you've likely tried the Vocal Align thingie on a guitar track. I mentioned in another thread how this seems like a good tool for maybe tightening up double guitar parts (especially leads). Any thoughts on that? I'm tight as hell when doubling (which I'm just realizing now) but not SO tight that a doubled crazy fast lead will sound like one axe (but I still want the sonic benefits of a doubled track). If this can just nudge out the slight discrepancies a little on single note rhythm riffs or leads that have been double properly that would be a HUGE bonus. Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:05:36
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alewgro
Question:
If I buy the product for $499 up front/one payment, will I have a subscription? Will I get any updates at all?
Alewgro
Yup. One year's full subscription which includes updates for that full year... then you get to keep it all.
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yphs_mst
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:06:11
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Too bad, the pricing structure doesn't work for me. As stated by Greeny in the very front pages of this thread, I agree with his points. I am also not a fan of paying monthly/annualy for a DAW since I usually use one version of DAW until the next 3-4 years (even without update patches). I will look at other alternatives (Steinberg or others). it has been a good run with Cakewalk!
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:06:58
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djjhart@aol.com
As I under stand you get more for being a monthly subscriber.
Nope. If you pay in advance you get all the same stuff you would on a month to month basis (as far as I understand it).
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:07:13
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Spencer Ok I have a honest question and I expect a honest answer. The paint tool. Ok, cool stuff, but. Are you guys purposely going out of your way to avoid making an actual, proper DUPLICATE functionality? I want to instantly copy my selected 4 bars into the next 4 bars into the next 4 bars into the next 4 bars etc by pressing ONE KEY. No mouse. How do you select the 4 bars without a mouse? Anyway, if it's a MIDI groove clip, click on the clip edge and drag for as many iterations as you want. If it's not a MIDI groove clip, type Ctrl+L first. (If you want to get fancy, use Paste Special and you can specify the number of iterations, where they start, and even select a different track. I find that very handy when I want to double a part in certain sections.)
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:08:24
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Beepster
djjhart@aol.com
As I under stand you get more for being a monthly subscriber.
Nope. If you pay in advance you get all the same stuff you would on a month to month basis (as far as I understand it).
Correct, and you pay a little less if you pay upfront.
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:09:06
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yphs_mst
Too bad, the pricing structure doesn't work for me. As stated by Greeny in the very front pages of this thread, I agree with his points. I am also not a fan of paying monthly/annualy for a DAW since I usually use one version of DAW until the next 3-4 years (even without update patches). I will look at other alternatives (Steinberg or others). it has been a good run with Cakewalk!
Greeny was mistaken in his assessment and said he was going to upgrade to Platinum. This is not SOLELY a subscription product. If you buy a full 12 month upgrade (one time payment) you keep everything fully licensed forever... just like buying the usual version upgrades of the past.
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Soft Enerji
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:10:12
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karlssonhaus@googlemail.com
Soft Enerji
Just trying to get a definite answer to the Addictive Drums question that has been asked. Will I be able to use my ADpaks, MIDIpaks and Kit Pieces that I already own and use in AD 1, with AD 2?
I think - no. It just AD2 engine with 3 drumpacks, midipacks and kitpieces. If you want upgrade your existing AD1 packs you have to pay $79
OK, that's not a deal breaker. Can anyone advise whether I'll then have both AD1 and AD2 as separate plug ins? That's if I don't upgrade AD1.
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ampfixer
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:11:59
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THe only thing I can tell for sure is that it will cost me more to own Sonar than in the past, and that there will be no more free bug fixes or enhancements. The $50 more I will pay is for those things. If you fail to provide a bug free update it will be written off as "still in the oven" should be good with the next update.
IT's costing me more and you have a cop out option for buggy updates. You will get the $149 from me so that I can experience the new format for a year and then I'll evaluate the experience. It doesn't feel good, but you're the dog and I'm the tail. #halfbaked for ever.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:13:46
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yphs_mst
Too bad, the pricing structure doesn't work for me. As stated by Greeny in the very front pages of this thread, I agree with his points. Well after he found out how the plan actually works, even he doesn't agree with them any more I am also not a fan of paying monthly/annualy for a DAW since I usually use one version of DAW until the next 3-4 years (even without update patches). You can still do that. You buy the software upfront just as you did with X3 or whatever. You still get 12 free months of membership and extra features, but you can simply choose not to download or install them if that's the way you roll. Then three years later, you can buy a full version of the software again, or take advantage of an upgrade path if one is available. This is the same way Apple sells Logic: You buy an entirely new program when Apple decides to release it. Well, except you don't get free updates and new content for the next year. And there's no upgrade path. And you don't know when the next version is coming out. Okay, never mind, I guess it's not like Apple. I will look at other alternatives (Steinberg or others). it has been a good run with Cakewalk! Read the FAQ.
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:18:51
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Paul P
nzpaul
I really don't understand the problem with this great offer. If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet, but we're getting effective an X4 and an X5!
You only get X5 with no patches to fix its major bugs, so in effect it's not X5. Imagine if something (like the console emulator, or the sustain pedal) breaks everything just when your 12 months are up. You'll have to lose everything that was also included with the bad update.
I wish people, especially Cakewalk/Gibson people, would stop using this false comparison. It just confuses things to no useful purpose.
While technically you are correct (the best kind of correct) it isn't a false assumption and due to the new release model it wouldn't be as catastrophic as say getting the original version of X2 without the patches. Basically with the old model they would release everything all at once based on the in company alpha testing and whatever beta testing they did before release. So then you have a raw product being dumped onto the market with all the bugs that were missed in the Alpha/Beta testing thus requiring a scramble to patch things. In this model because it is incremental only the very last of the new elements MAY require patches. The rest of the stuff would be tested by user and patched throughout the year. So again TECHNICALLY you COULD be missing out on ALL the possible patches for what would have been X5 but most of the holes, in theory, would be plugged before your subscription ran out. That of course is if everything goes according to the plan being presented so again only time will tell but when you think about it it is still a superior and potentially cost effective model for the wily consumer.
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dwardzala
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:23:26
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Paul P
nzpaul
I really don't understand the problem with this great offer. If the bakers had just offered all the new features as X4 with nothing further being added everyone would be quiet, but we're getting effective an X4 and an X5!
You only get X5 with no patches to fix its major bugs, so in effect it's not X5. Imagine if something (like the console emulator, or the sustain pedal) breaks everything just when your 12 months are up. You'll have to lose everything that was also included with the bad update.
I wish people, especially Cakewalk/Gibson people, would stop using this false comparison. It just confuses things to no useful purpose.
That's not really true either - if they release a feature that 3 months into the year, there is still 9 months to get bug fixes for it. Anything that is released at the end of the year would not be patched, but I think the intent is to release stuff throughout the year and patch it as soon as possible, meaning most of the stuff will probably get at least one patch. And you have the ability to roll back to a previous version if your last patch of your membership breaks something, so you won't be stuck (except, of course, being out that last content).
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:28:14
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And just in case anyone is wondering I do not work for, nor am I affiliated with Cakewalk, Gibson or any other company... nor am I sycophant. If I thought this stunk I would say so or not bother posting.
I just think this is a somewhat confusing release at first glance but if you really dig and think through it all it's actually pretty brilliant.
The only way this will be a detriment to the end user, as far as I can see, is if the Bakers completely drop the ball but even then you can just not resubscribe. This version seems to be essentially X3 made awesomer and X3 is solid by all reports (including mine) so no one's getting burned unless they do something silly like pay for 11 months of membership then unsubscribe... in which case... well you are silly.
Anyhoo... not sure why I'm still posting. I ain't even get paid for this. lulz
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cclarry
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:34:07
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Soft Enerji
karlssonhaus@googlemail.com
Soft Enerji
Just trying to get a definite answer to the Addictive Drums question that has been asked. Will I be able to use my ADpaks, MIDIpaks and Kit Pieces that I already own and use in AD 1, with AD 2?
I think - no. It just AD2 engine with 3 drumpacks, midipacks and kitpieces. If you want upgrade your existing AD1 packs you have to pay $79
OK, that's not a deal breaker. Can anyone advise whether I'll then have both AD1 and AD2 as separate plug ins? That's if I don't upgrade AD1.
Your exisiting AD1 ADpaks are only converted to AD2 if you BUY the ADpak upgrade, which is separate from AD2. Otherwise they remain as AD1 and you cannot use them in AD2. You do retain BOTH AD1 and AD2 if you currently own AD1, so there is no loss of product. But you will only be able to use the NEW Adpaks with AD2. All the AD1 Adpaks remain as AD1 Adpaks which can only be used in AD1. Also, XLN no longer supports or sells AD1. Hope that helps....
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LeBassist
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:36:47
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This is the future of software. I think CW held off especially since the most of us are Musicians, not programmers. Seems like they thought this thru. When you wakeup in the morning and your phone has three updates, did you ever think; who is doing all this code while I'm dreaming candied bass clef arpeggio notes? One must think it's a scary leap for a large and trusted DAW fan base. It really takes guts. Some people say... "If it works fine, don't mess with it!" Others say..."If it works fine, break it!" Kudos CW! I see people say farewell, but only have six posts. I've been with you since DOS, and I'm riding that floating skateboard into the future! Where am I? In the coffee shop?
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Soft Enerji
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:37:50
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cclarry
Soft Enerji
karlssonhaus@googlemail.com
Soft Enerji
Just trying to get a definite answer to the Addictive Drums question that has been asked. Will I be able to use my ADpaks, MIDIpaks and Kit Pieces that I already own and use in AD 1, with AD 2?
I think - no. It just AD2 engine with 3 drumpacks, midipacks and kitpieces. If you want upgrade your existing AD1 packs you have to pay $79
OK, that's not a deal breaker. Can anyone advise whether I'll then have both AD1 and AD2 as separate plug ins? That's if I don't upgrade AD1.
Your exisiting AD1 ADpaks are only converted to AD2 if you BUY the ADpak upgrade, which is separate from AD2.
Otherwise they remain as AD1 and you cannot use them in AD2. You do retain BOTH AD1 and AD2 if you currently own AD1, so there is no loss of product. But you will only be able to use the NEW Adpaks with AD2. All the AD1 Adpaks remain as AD1 Adpaks which can only be used in AD1. Also, XLN no longer supports or sells AD1. Hope that helps....
That does indeed help, thank you.
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TabSel
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 17:40:25
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☄ Helpfulby alewgro 2015/01/14 21:24:23
149 seems to be quite steep considering the few new/bettered things already there in new sonar/announced to come within the first membership period, imho. No long overdue act overhaul, still no vst3 note expression support, to name but a few features I had hoped for...
Renewing is 199 a year. Up to now it was about 149 every two years or so for the next version, am I wrong? So that's quite a huge raise?
Is it even legal to charge for bug fixes? Isn't a company obliged to offer what they sell as documented? So when there are reproducible bugs and I opted out of membership, these bugs won't get fixed? Will I get a refund for having to stay with a faulty product? How is bug fixing handled? (X3e came more than 12 months after x3, as far as I remember, so platinum bug fixes might AND SHOULD as well come after a memberships period, too, BUT FOR FREE. I'm talking about bug fixes, NOT new features)
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