Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 19:54:47
(permalink)
TabSel
Not knowing the new EULA is indeed the reason why I am asking this question ;)
So, Ryan, as you are already on it, any details, please, on how bug fixing/repairs/warranty periods/refunds are handled within this new licensing model?
I'm probably the wrong person to ask legal questions to, and actually on my phone and don't have access to the new EULA. You might be picking on the wrong guy ;) However, I will say your examples seem like the exact reason we spent the last few years building the foundation for this new model. I think you'll find that not only will bug fixes and excellent new features be delivered in a better and more consistent way, but also that legal binding documents aside, Cakewalk has a long standing history of taking care of its customers. The types of scenarios you are explaining are ones where we often resort to thinking how people think versus how contracts read. There is always gray area and we have made exceptions to the rule many times in the past when things were reasonable. Maybe its our downfall, but I think you'll find Cakewalk is employed by humans and not robots. From what I understand, Gibson also has an extremely firm philosophy of taking care of its customers as well. Anyhow, it's up to us to convince people whether or not to sticking to the plan is worth it. I'll let the EULA speak for itself when its available, but I felt the need to remind everyone that Cakewalk is an extremely reasonable company to work for and with.
post edited by Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk] - 2015/01/14 20:22:21
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cclarry
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 19:56:28
(permalink)
jbow
Wow, this is going to take me some time. I downloaded the Command Center. I have no products. I suppose, since I let programs install stuff in different places (on this computer) I am going to have to add folders but... shouldn't something be there? I have VSTs in the default folder.
Of course, I had to change my password but thankfully I have that sorted out. I had Windows remember it and I forgot it. I am able to sign in to everything again I think, I have not tried the store or my account but I'm (obviously, on the forum). I was logged into Command Center, where I have no products... I think I need to read the FAQ. I hope this is easy. I have enough problems.
J
PS. thanks Beep, I'll have a look now.
Nothing is supposed to be there yet. Not until the new product is released....so you don't have any problems...
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JohnoL
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 19:57:02
(permalink)
A few people have asked this general question and I have the same question.
I think the faq needs more clarification.
If I let my Membership expire after 12 months, can I renew it again later? Yes, you can come back any time and pay the Renewal rate.
Will the renewal rate be the same after 3 months, after 6months, 1 or 2 years?
I am talking more about paying the full 12 months in advance. Do you pay extra to "catch up?"
For the last 3 years I have gotten the new version but I usually wait 3 to 6 months when they repeat the
introductory offer and/or offer a free video with it.
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scook
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 19:57:34
(permalink)
nzpaul
Anderton
- Some pretty killer new amp sims (at least I think so
 )
I'd be really interested on any more info on these and also the feature set of the REMatrix solo (what's been removed from the full version)
All the REMatrix info I have https://www.cakewalk.com/...p=NewFeatures.19.html#
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:00:28
(permalink)
azslow3
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Atsuko
azslow3
I see this (feature or bug?) almost a month... Should I expect good monthly updates of SONAR then?
That's my concern too...
We'll let Cleverbridge know. We don't host nor program these pages. Seems like an overreaction just to try to make a point anyway.
I had that "overreaction" a month ago: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3136468
This time it is just a reaction.
Point out one flaw to try to discredit everything else. Weird way of trying to tear people down versus just saying "hey I noticed something weird and wanted to help out by mentioning it".
As I have mentioned, I have worries. And this new shop is the reason I have these worries...
I don't think a styling error on a web page hosted by another company should try to convince people to be concerned about the future of Cakewalk and our products if you ask me.
If the first thing you see on the way to get new update is a bug (really more than one), I am concerned.
SONAR depends from many products coming from other companies, so "another company" explanation is a bad argument (if you ask me).
I'm just saying its a minor example. Cleverbridge has been an excellent company to work with so far. What you are unaware of is all the insane and excellent work they HAVE done in the last month. As with any deadline, priorities are made. This was not on the list of major priorities. Your example is a minor nitpick, though obviously it should still be resolved. My argument isn't whether or not it should be resolved. My argument is that this is an odd example to bring up in regards to whether or not you're convinced if Cakewalk can offer a solid product. I think we can. Your shop examples are legitimate and should and will be resolved. In the grand scheme of things though, this new shop is light years ahead of our old one. What we've already been able to achieve with it is more then we were ever able to archieve with the old store.
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Dave__lol 
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:00:42
(permalink)
Really! you don't even have all the bugs out of X3!!! and now you want to start a "paid subscription DAW" to replace everything! lol!
Lets talk..... I say "CLASS ACTION SUIT!" you sold me X3e and it does NOT work. off the top of my head, channel strip eq will only work with preset. VST loader loads differently on its own and random plugins don't even show up... Even the ones that came with X3! lol.... CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! I have had to reinstall X3 many times because magically plugins become installed wrong!, Freeze track doubles the tracks...
I've ben using Cakewalk since it was 12tone over 20 years and this is upgrade (lol) if you want to call it that is the last straw for me! HELLO ProTools!
BTW... and if you can't FIX X3, I want my money back! it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:02:27
(permalink)
TabSel
I simply will wait for the EULA, but, I can not imagine refusing warranty in any form is illegal, isn't it?
Judge for yourself. Read section "7. Disclaimer of Warranties" in the EULA for OS X Yosemite. This kind of language is very common.
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jbow
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:02:41
(permalink)
Thanks Beep, you've been busy. I may not completely understand, well I may hardly understand but I've bought everything Cake has offered in the past few years and since S3PE, except I skipped S8. I will always go with TOTL, Platinum. I was just wondering, but I know what I'll do.
Now I just to need to figure out why Command Center says I have no products. I'm really not going to have more than a few minutes to figure this out in the next 10 days, that's one of the reasons I want to know what the time window is for the 149 upgrade.
Anyway... I'm sure I'll get it sorted out and I'm moving to a new DAW (computer anyway) so yeah, I'll get it sorted out.. but shouldn't something show up in Command Center? No?
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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RavenPanther
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:04:07
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/01/14 20:34:51
I'm very sorry if this has already been asked, I'm running late and couldn't read much past the second page...
My SO purchased X3 Producer for me during Cyber Monday, December 1st as a Christmas present (Thus I wasn't in possession of it until later in the month, just saying.) I finally got it installed (had some issues) and registered around Jan. 4th.
Then I come on here to see there is/will be a new version. I understand the upgrade from x3 Producer to Sonar Platinum is $149 for a year.... but is there any way to get a discount, myself, since I literally JUST installed my copy less than two weeks ago??
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jbow
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:04:40
(permalink)
cclarry
jbow
Wow, this is going to take me some time. I downloaded the Command Center. I have no products. I suppose, since I let programs install stuff in different places (on this computer) I am going to have to add folders but... shouldn't something be there? I have VSTs in the default folder.
Of course, I had to change my password but thankfully I have that sorted out. I had Windows remember it and I forgot it. I am able to sign in to everything again I think, I have not tried the store or my account but I'm (obviously, on the forum). I was logged into Command Center, where I have no products... I think I need to read the FAQ. I hope this is easy. I have enough problems.
J
PS. thanks Beep, I'll have a look now.
Nothing is supposed to be there yet. Not until the new product is released....so you don't have any problems...
Larry, you are still one of the most helpful people here. Most people are but you always help me and I appreciate it. I know I have some dumb questions but you always answer anyway. Thanks, J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:09:19
(permalink)
rfreeze
If this has already been addressed, please point me back to whichever of the 12 pages I missed it on ...
I don't think this bodes well for bug fixes for non-subscribers. Your industry already has a bad habit of bundling bug fixes with new features in paid updates, rather than providing straight-up bug fixes gratis.
So will Cake be working harder now to keep bug fixes separated from paid updates so that they can be made available to non-subscription buyers?
Also, I agree with the previous poster about paying in advance for promises. I get that the subscription model is supposed to get people onboard with a monthly payments in perpetuity, but the need for Cake to provide incentive will *potentially* drive an increase in highly publicized BS "features". I guess time will tell.
Yes, I'm a skeptic.
This leaves me as a potential periodic upgrader with concern about bug fixes being even harder to come by if I don't pay for them via subscription. And one who watches very closely to see what kind of real value track record develops.
If they don't deliver then people will stop "subscribing". It's a competitive market. If it doesn't work they they won't do it anymore unless they get Steve Ballmer to ruin I mean run Cakewalk.
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Leadfoot
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:10:29
(permalink)
Dave__lol
Really! you don't even have all the bugs out of X3!!! and now you want to start a "paid subscription DAW" to replace everything! lol!
Lets talk..... I say "CLASS ACTION SUIT!" you sold me X3e and it does NOT work. off the top of my head, channel strip eq will only work with preset. VST loader loads differently on its own and random plugins don't even show up... Even the ones that came with X3! lol.... CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! I have had to reinstall X3 many times because magically plugins become installed wrong!, Freeze track doubles the tracks...
I've ben using Cakewalk since it was 12tone over 20 years and this is upgrade (lol) if you want to call it that is the last straw for me! HELLO ProTools!
BTW... and if you can't FIX X3, I want my money back! it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
Gee, 1 post. Just joined 25 minutes ago...
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:10:30
(permalink)
Dave__lol
it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
You must be from the west coast where many vowels are dropped. I assume you really meant to write "created." Way too many pronounce "create" as "crate." And "believe" as "bleve." And so on.
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cclarry
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:11:34
(permalink)
jbow
cclarry
jbow
Wow, this is going to take me some time. I downloaded the Command Center. I have no products. I suppose, since I let programs install stuff in different places (on this computer) I am going to have to add folders but... shouldn't something be there? I have VSTs in the default folder.
Of course, I had to change my password but thankfully I have that sorted out. I had Windows remember it and I forgot it. I am able to sign in to everything again I think, I have not tried the store or my account but I'm (obviously, on the forum). I was logged into Command Center, where I have no products... I think I need to read the FAQ. I hope this is easy. I have enough problems.
J
PS. thanks Beep, I'll have a look now.
Nothing is supposed to be there yet. Not until the new product is released....so you don't have any problems...
Larry, you are still one of the most helpful people here. Most people are but you always help me and I appreciate it. I know I have some dumb questions but you always answer anyway.
Thanks,
J
Always happy to help J!!!
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Leadfoot
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:15:36
(permalink)
To me it's almost as if nothing's changed. The only difference is you can choose to break the price up into 12 payments of $14.99. I will be doing the one-time, $149.00 upgrade, as I don't have internet on my DAW, and wouldn't want to authorize it once a month. But we're still getting the same product for the same upgrade price. Why all the drama??
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:16:09
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/01/14 20:42:54
Dave__lol
Really! you don't even have all the bugs out of X3!!! and now you want to start a "paid subscription DAW" to replace everything! lol!
Lets talk..... I say "CLASS ACTION SUIT!" you sold me X3e and it does NOT work. off the top of my head, channel strip eq will only work with preset. VST loader loads differently on its own and random plugins don't even show up... Even the ones that came with X3! lol.... CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! I have had to reinstall X3 many times because magically plugins become installed wrong!, Freeze track doubles the tracks...
I've ben using Cakewalk since it was 12tone over 20 years and this is upgrade (lol) if you want to call it that is the last straw for me! HELLO ProTools!
BTW... and if you can't FIX X3, I want my money back! it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
Yeah... I had the same problems when I tried to install X3 on my Speak and Spell. For some reason it works great on my semi modern PC tho.
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Dave__lol
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:18:38
(permalink)
lol! yea, stopped thinking preoccupied, finger walking on the keys again... Don't give a crap about gram-more or spelling... HAHA!
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Dave__lol
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:20:14
(permalink)
Leadfoot
Dave__lol
Really! you don't even have all the bugs out of X3!!! and now you want to start a "paid subscription DAW" to replace everything! lol!
Lets talk..... I say "CLASS ACTION SUIT!" you sold me X3e and it does NOT work. off the top of my head, channel strip eq will only work with preset. VST loader loads differently on its own and random plugins don't even show up... Even the ones that came with X3! lol.... CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! I have had to reinstall X3 many times because magically plugins become installed wrong!, Freeze track doubles the tracks...
I've ben using Cakewalk since it was 12tone over 20 years and this is upgrade (lol) if you want to call it that is the last straw for me! HELLO ProTools!
BTW... and if you can't FIX X3, I want my money back! it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
Gee, 1 post. Just joined 25 minutes ago...
Really?, like I'm going to post the REAL me here genus! get a clue!
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cfcboc
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:20:39
(permalink)
I am a "casual" user of X3 Producer, meaning that I am simply a hobbyist that uses very limited features of Sonar but as I explore the product and learn about the various features, I get more benefit from the software. I have a been a long-time Cakewalk pre-Sonar and Sonar user and have been taking advantage of the occasional offers to upgrade Sonar, which I suspect will no longer be offered. My expectation was that I would use Sonar X3 Pro for several years, then upgrade to a newer version, which I would again use for several years. Does this new plan mean that for users like me, we would not be able to get "free" maintenace releases to fix issues, (e.g. Sonar X1 going through several "fix" patches to get a stable system) if we just want to keep X3 Pro for a couple years?? From what I see, I might have very little, if any, use for the newest features in the product. Does this also mean that technical support for Sonar X3 Pro will be limited or no longer available if I am trying to resolve a problem going forward? It kind of sounds like this new plan is really aimed at music professionals who use the product at the expense of the non-professional, casual user. Should I be looking at ending my use of Sonar in favor of another product/vendor?
post edited by cfcboc - 2015/01/14 20:47:13
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Leadfoot
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:21:44
(permalink)
BTW...Nice job bakers. Thank you! I watched the videos and am excited to try some of those new features. The MIDI enhancements are VERY cool! The vocal alignment thing is awesome too! Very much looking forward to this upgrade!
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Dave__lol
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:23:40
(permalink)
Leadfoot
To me it's almost as if nothing's changed. The only difference is you can choose to break the price up into 12 payments of $14.99. I will be doing the one-time, $149.00 upgrade, as I don't have internet on my DAW, and wouldn't want to authorize it once a month. But we're still getting the same product for the same upgrade price. Why all the drama??
yes... 149. for 1 year! then you get to BUY it all over again! this subscription service will not work... people will get it for a month and see how buggy it is and move on to something else... GOOD LUCK cakewalk! lol
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tKx5050
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/14 20:25:53
(permalink)
RavenPanther - That's something you would really have to call cake customer service about. Though the bakers are out in force because of the impending release, this is just a user forum. It seems to me they've always tried to fair, but if you bought it at the sale price, most of us paid a lot more, you may have to pay the upgrade price or don't upgrade and just use X3 which is a very good release. I would still call them and ask about though.
Steve Sonar Platinum, Quad-Capture, I7-3770, 32Gb
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:26:16
(permalink)
Dave__lol
Really! you don't even have all the bugs out of X3!!! and now you want to start a "paid subscription DAW" to replace everything! lol!
Lets talk..... I say "CLASS ACTION SUIT!" you sold me X3e and it does NOT work. off the top of my head, channel strip eq will only work with preset. VST loader loads differently on its own and random plugins don't even show up... Even the ones that came with X3! lol.... CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! I have had to reinstall X3 many times because magically plugins become installed wrong!, Freeze track doubles the tracks...
I've ben using Cakewalk since it was 12tone over 20 years and this is upgrade (lol) if you want to call it that is the last straw for me! HELLO ProTools!
BTW... and if you can't FIX X3, I want my money back! it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
Yes, let's talk. But about solving problems, not making threats. Think about it for a second. If even a minority of people experienced what you claim to experience, this forum would be lit up with people describing those same problems, and Cakewalk would have gone out of business shortly after X3 was introduced. Instead, many here hail it as the most stable version yet. Why? Most people who have problems come on the forums, and helpful people troubleshoot their systems, uncover specific issues, and send them on their way enjoying the same level of performance as the thousands of musicians who use SONAR regularly (or in my case, every day). If all else fails, people with issues can contact tech support and that usually takes care of the "corner cases." You have one post. That implies to me you have not come into this forum and tried to find a solution. I can load every plug-in that came with X3, on four different computers. Why can't you? It's the same software. Therefore a variable other than SONAR is in play. Maybe the only difference is I read the "read me" file, which says if upgrading to X3 you need to rescan AND reset your plug-ins. Simply scanning is not enough. Availing yourself of Cakewalk tech support or the excellent peer-to-peer advice available in this forum would be more likely to result in solving your specific issues then threatening a class action suit. There are long-time SONAR users here who depend on this software. Some have legitimate concerns and questions about what are admittedly sweeping changes to a program they've known for years. The purpose of the thread is to listen to their feedback and answer their questions. If you just want to vent, try venting to tech support...they just might help you get your system to work.
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Leadfoot
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:26:26
(permalink)
Dave__lol
Leadfoot
Dave__lol
Really! you don't even have all the bugs out of X3!!! and now you want to start a "paid subscription DAW" to replace everything! lol!
Lets talk..... I say "CLASS ACTION SUIT!" you sold me X3e and it does NOT work. off the top of my head, channel strip eq will only work with preset. VST loader loads differently on its own and random plugins don't even show up... Even the ones that came with X3! lol.... CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! I have had to reinstall X3 many times because magically plugins become installed wrong!, Freeze track doubles the tracks...
I've ben using Cakewalk since it was 12tone over 20 years and this is upgrade (lol) if you want to call it that is the last straw for me! HELLO ProTools!
BTW... and if you can't FIX X3, I want my money back! it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
Gee, 1 post. Just joined 25 minutes ago...
Really?, like I'm going to post the REAL me here genus! get a clue!
Not sure why you're hiding behind a fake name. You're entitled to your opinion. Just post it under your regular username.
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Dave__lol
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:27:08
(permalink)
I called Cakewalk sales today... the guy picked up right way.... that's the 1st sign that this subscription DAW won't work... and the fact that he sounded "in my opinion" that I had woken him or he lives in Colorado.... ;)
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Dave__lol
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:30:09
(permalink)
Leadfoot
Dave__lol
Leadfoot
Dave__lol
Really! you don't even have all the bugs out of X3!!! and now you want to start a "paid subscription DAW" to replace everything! lol!
Lets talk..... I say "CLASS ACTION SUIT!" you sold me X3e and it does NOT work. off the top of my head, channel strip eq will only work with preset. VST loader loads differently on its own and random plugins don't even show up... Even the ones that came with X3! lol.... CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! I have had to reinstall X3 many times because magically plugins become installed wrong!, Freeze track doubles the tracks...
I've ben using Cakewalk since it was 12tone over 20 years and this is upgrade (lol) if you want to call it that is the last straw for me! HELLO ProTools!
BTW... and if you can't FIX X3, I want my money back! it's crap and you don't stand behind ANYTHING you have crate!
lost my password and user name... lol, I don't have much use in hanging out on forums to feel important, needed and wanted. ;)
Gee, 1 post. Just joined 25 minutes ago...
Really?, like I'm going to post the REAL me here genus! get a clue!
Not sure why you're hiding behind a fake name. You're entitled to your opinion. Just post it under your regular username.
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CoteRotie
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:31:16
(permalink)
Dave__lol
Leadfoot
Gee, 1 post. Just joined 25 minutes ago...
Really?, like I'm going to post the REAL me here genus! get a clue!
You're not even going to post your genus? are you Trollus Homunculus?
Wait, wait, what key is it in? GA-X58A-UD3 motherboard Intel i7 950 CPU w/12 G RAM ATI Radeon 4350 graphics 3 cats 1 crazydog Lynx AES16/Aurora 8 SCA N72 J99 & A12 pres. Adam A7 Monitors Win 10 SONAR Platinum 64 bit
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:32:35
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Dave__lol
Really?, like I'm going to post the REAL me here genus! get a clue!
Some of us use our real names and stand behind what we say.
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2:43AM
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:33:08
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I don't have time to read through 16 pages of this. I guess this upgrade thing is OK. If I decide to upgrade, then I will just pay in full. Not a big deal, I suppose; same as before but with a twist.
And cclarry is back?!?
EDIT1: Frickin' 19 pages!
EDIT2: Now if they make that "sandbox" multi-dock window, then I'm definitely in!
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: You need to FIX X3 before moving on to anything else!!!!
2015/01/14 20:34:07
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Dave__lol
I called Cakewalk sales today... the guy picked up right way.... that's the 1st sign that this subscription DAW won't work... and the fact that he sounded "in my opinion" that I had woken him or he lives in Colorado.... ;)
I know all the guys in support. There all great guys and real people. Some of them are loud and some of them are quiet. They don't have agendas or predefined scripts. You're judging a person and making a tasteless joke that this means our new model won't work.
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