ChazEd

"If I let my Membership expire after 12 months, can I renew it again later?

Yes, you can come back any time and pay the Renewal rate."
 
Can someone explain to me what is "Renewal rate"?

The FAQ should help.

TabSel
If you buy product that doesn't work as documented, the seller is in charge to repair/exchange/refund, of course, the buyer entitled to damages, if any.

 
That is not true. All commercial, and even most free, software has an end user license agreement (EULA). You agree to it when you install the software. Read it to find out what your rights are. I have NEVER seen software where a company assumed responsibility for consequential damages, and most software is sold "as is." Cakewalk's EULA is generally about the same as every other software company's.

TabSel
If you buy product that doesn't work as documented, the seller is in charge to repair/exchange/refund, of course, the buyer entitled to damages, if any.

So, for a drastic example, if a menu function "add 2 tracks" leads to crash and loss of work, the only workaround provided officially would be to add 1 track and add another one track, and I opted out of membership, and the next update provides a bug fix for this bug ONLY, will my product get "repaired" or not? Don't take that example too serious, I think you get my point.

Read the EULA. Thanks.

Hi I own Sonar X3 Producer and have been buying ProChannel modules, TH2 upgrade, AdPacks, etc. If I try the new sonar version for 1 month will I loose my Sonar X3?
 
If I buy the upgrade in 6 months for the year will I still get all the upgrades during the last months? 
 
How much time will the price of $149 USD for a year will be available? and how much will it increase after that?
 
Also I bought an AdPack from Cakewalk and my surprise was that my current AdPacks were not upgrade. I contact Addictive Drums and they told me I have to upgrade with them in order to have my actual AdPacks upgrade, will this be the same in the new version of Sonar?
 
Shine On!
 
PiBoy
 
 
 
 

Anderton

ChazEd

"If I let my Membership expire after 12 months, can I renew it again later?

Yes, you can come back any time and pay the Renewal rate."
 
Can someone explain to me what is "Renewal rate"?

The FAQ should help.

Thanks, Craig, but I still have some questions:
 
Example:
 
I pay $149 to upgrade my X3 Producer to Platinum now (January/February, 2015), the I get all Platinum current and future features for 12 months. Ok.
 
Then, in January/February, 2016, for reasons unknown (no cash, too much beer , etc), I can't renewal my Platinum Membership.
 
Then say 6 months (or 1 year, or 2 year, I don't know what will happen in the future) later I want to renewal my Platinum membership.
 
Will I have to pay full price again or just the current (2016/2017...) upgrade price?
 
Will I loose my Platinum membership and go to square one (like a new sonar user status) if I let it expire?

paulo
 

drewfx1
 
I'm still not quite clear on what happens a year from now though (assuming I did the yearly upgrade now). What would I be paying for at that point?

 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
You'd be paying for more features, updates, contents for the next year. You will have a year to decide if that is of value to you.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but what I'm seeing here a year from now is a substantial price hike over the existing upgrade cost  (which was already substantially increased last year) for an upgrade that you can't possibly know if you think is good value ot not or not because you won't know what it is gonna be and if after a year you don't think it was worth it  - tough luck 'cos you've already paid for it ?
 
You might well produce upgrades that you (CW) see as being good value for this fee, but to give one example from the current upgrade package all the AD2 stuff is totally useless to me as it can't be installed on an offline pc, so to me has no value at all. Problem is that in future I will have already paid for it.
 
 
 
 

I've read all the thread and I do not understand what is so difficult to get. 
 
Let's say that I upgrade from X3 to Platinum now. I pay $149 upfront and I am happy for 12 months with my shiny "Sonar 2015", that gets upgrades and new features up to February 2016. 
 
Comes February 2016, and if I really do not see a reason (i.e. an upcoming new feature) to pay more at that moment, I just don't, and keep on using "Sonar 2015" until the amount of accumulated new features makes it interesting for me to pay again. Imagine that this happens February 2017. If I then buy 12 months more, I am actually paying for versions "Sonar 2016" and a full "Sonar 2017", with all its upgrades, for a fair upgrade price.
 
How is this different and/or more expensive than the current model? Now you are waiting for a new version to come out and then you decide whether its new features make you want to upgrade or not. The new model is exactly the same, but you have the advantage that you can decide when the value of that feature set is up to what you are willing to pay.
 
In the meantime, and if there is some new feature that you could need for a particular reason (or project), you can even pay a couple of months just to use that. And if you keep on paying you are even financing the next upgrade instead. 
 
I do not see what is there not to like.

Anderton

TabSel
If you buy product that doesn't work as documented, the seller is in charge to repair/exchange/refund, of course, the buyer entitled to damages, if any.

 
That is not true. All commercial, and even most free, software has an end user license agreement (EULA). You agree to it when you install the software. Read it to find out what your rights are. I have NEVER seen software where a company assumed responsibility for consequential damages, and most software is sold "as is." Cakewalk's EULA is generally about the same as every other software company's.

I feel it very important to mention that this is not our updated EULA. Sorry Craig, not trying to step on your toes.
 
We have a new EULA that will be public with our new product launch.

Not knowing the new EULA is indeed the reason why I am asking this question ;)

So, Ryan, as you are already on it, any details, please, on how bug fixing/repairs/warranty periods/refunds are handled within this new licensing model?

What is the release date? It's not stated in the announcement. 

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

kitekrazy1

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

gswitz

SimpleManZ
Easy to see I can only use Sonar on "1" computer from now on end. Then the occasional rebuilding of the said "1" computer will need to hassle of reclaiming whatever token I have 'dongled-Sonar' to the internet. 

Just for clarity, I believe there is no dongle (can I get a hallelujah).

If you never let your DAW on the internet, there is a way to validate the software so you can use it (by downloading a file and using sneaker-net to move the file to your DAW).

You can use that same file to authenticate 10 offline computers that you own if you wish, as long as you continue to only use them one at a time (which most of us are forced to do anyway due to only having one good interface). I'm really not sure how Sonar would protect themselves if you have 10 DAWs in your studio that are NEVER online. I'm guessing it would come down to the honor system at that point.

For most of us, this translates to the fact that you can install on your DAW and your Laptop if you want. You can use your laptop in the field as long as no one is concurrently bouncing tracks in your studio on your DAW.

Obviously its up to us to protect ourselves. To state it simply, we have no intention of making it difficult for people to authorize their software, even if they have multiple machines. I wouldn't worry. The design is very unintrusive.

With that being said, if we see the same aunthication request 100 times we're going to know somethings up and, if necessary, provide a free complimentary upgrade to SONAR Demo :)

 You should always support developers with the "I trust you" attitude. This is a good way to combat piracy.
 
 This is my favorite quote from the founder of Spectrasonics:
 
The closest thing to that is iLok. But the problem with a system like that is that it gives the most important control of your product to another company...and you have to go along with their way of doing things, even if that's NOT the way you want to do business. Not only that, but if something happens to that company or that system, then it affects everybody...hundreds of products and hundreds of thousands of users! The concept of paying for a system like that, when we can do a better job of it in-house is extremely distasteful to me.

It's weird....we lose some sales to Pro Tools users because we don't use iLok and they prefer to have a dongle. But if we did, there are many thousands more of our users that would hate going to a dongle system. (and offering both dongle and dongless methods just complicates things, providing less reliability, more tech support and less security as well).

I just would never trust another company with such a valuable and key part of my business and how I interact with my customers.


 
 I have an elicenser and iLok. They do have their advantages but when you boot up another machine and run a DAW without those it can be a hassle.
 
 Once again support developers who believe there are more honest endusers and thieves.
 

Neat quote from Spectrasonics. (Embarassing typo from me!).

Piracy is always a heavy topic. Speaking as a consumer for a moment, I find myself naturally investing in companies and products that offer seamless and reliable solutions. I've learned enough about computers and software over the years to sidestep most copy protection, but have found myself maturing to a point where investing in reliable software and support has become a more worthwhile investment. I've learned to value my time, as well as that of others. Why would I pirate anything when I can support a company towards their goals of delivering an excellent product to me? To me, it just makes sense to support art and talent.

I'm personally of the firm belief that people pirate products that are too difficult to obtain legally, and that those that do it anyway wouldn't have purchased the product anyway and most likely won't really use it consistently or professionally.

Anyhow, regardless of my belief, I can assure you the driving factor behind these changes actually wasn't driven by the topic of piracy really. If anything, it was driven by folks with a ton of experience in tech support (which is basically everyone at Cakewalk since we all love helping users) and talking to customers. We felt like we could offer a better experience when it comes to installing, authorizing, and updating SONAR. I'm extremely excited that we're finally talking about it. I think this new paradigm is going to bring our products and support to the next level! It just took us a few years to build the back end to support that goal!

 Some companies have converted crack users to legit users through excellent support and their developers making more friends than enemies with the enduser.  
 

CakeAlexS
Ryan has given me a prerelease EULA for the product and apparently with every bug found a kitten will be slowly strangled and fed to the greys. All alien invasion dates are kept secret.

Ignorance is bliss, but poor cats. What about the bugs?

I simply will wait for the EULA, but, I can not imagine refusing warranty in any form is illegal, isn't it?

I personally am bothered by this licensing model trend. Guess I'll wait and see how it develops first. Sorry cakewalk ;) here's your chance to earn some first trust points (you will have to earn many of these with this new membership model, I guess) and chime in explain the warranty handling, will you?

Anderton

• Some pretty killer new amp sims (at least I think so )

 
I'd be really interested on any more info on these and also the feature set of the REMatrix solo (what's been removed from the full version)
 

brconflict

Anderton
 
The current model didn't exist at the time of the survey. Way too much was read into that survey, it was really more about how people buy software and what they want.
 

In hindsight I'd say what we read into the survey at least had some credence.

Of course! It was part of the data set that went into creating this model. But too much was read into it in the sense that people assumed Cakewalk was going to do a traditional subscription and "go Adobe." IIRC at the time there was no commitment to doing a subscription or membership plan, there was still the intention to launch X4 in the traditional way.

Kalle Rantaaho
I can't decide whether this is good news or bad news. Most likely it turns out just one more reason (excuse?) for me to stick to 8.5 and cross my fingers hoping my PC will run for a few more years.
 
 

It's not unusual to be that way.  Many people stick with older software because they know it so well or too busy making money with it to take time to learn a new version. I knew a guy still using Sonar 2 when 7 or 8 was out and was too busy to learn the new version because he was making money on Sonar 2. 

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

Atsuko

azslow3
I see this (feature or bug?) almost a month... Should I expect good monthly updates of SONAR then?

That's my concern too...

We'll let Cleverbridge know. We don't host nor program these pages. Seems like an overreaction just to try to make a point anyway.

I had that "overreaction" a month ago: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3136468
This time it is just a reaction.

Point out one flaw to try to discredit everything else. Weird way of trying to tear people down versus just saying "hey I noticed something weird and wanted to help out by mentioning it".

As I have mentioned, I have worries. And this new shop is the reason I have these worries...

I don't think a styling error on a web page hosted by another company should try to convince people to be concerned about the future of Cakewalk and our products if you ask me.

If the first thing you see on the way to get new update is a bug (really more than one), I am concerned.
SONAR depends from many products coming from other companies, so "another company" explanation is a bad argument (if you ask me).