Paul P
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:31:13
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/01/15 10:37:28
I guess some of you missed the above post / quote : Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
June '16 - $20mo/$200
June '17 - $20mo/$200
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145782 -> click the link The way I read this is that Cakewalk has spoken on the matter.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Kylotan
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:34:10
(permalink)
Agreed that Cakewalk should have done a better job of communicating that you can still effectively buy the most up-to-date version for a fixed sum of cash, and get a year's worth of updates. That would probably have stopped a lot of the worrying and whining about the subscription model.
Also agreed with the person pointing out that EULAs don't free a company from having to provide working software or a refund. Having said that, although all the bugs I encounter with Sonar are annoying, probably only one of them has come close to "this product is not fit for purpose", so this point is largely moot.
On a related note, I would also be interested in learning how bug fixes are going to be handled in the context of updates - eg. whether lapsed subscribers can get free patches for obvious flaws, whether lapsing subscribers lose bug fixes when rolling back to the last version they fully paid for, etc.
And I too am slightly concerned about the cost mounting up - as someone who could only justify upgrading every 3 years or so, I can't commit $720 to Cakewalk over that time period (36 months x $20) when previously I would have paid maybe $200 to upgrade. So, I could pay for one year, leave it for two years... but then if the rejoining price is hiked too far, I won't be able to justify it.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Karyn
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:36:26
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Beepster
The thing is you are always going to have folks who will stay current and those who lag behind ......
In the past you could wait for the price drop just before a new version release and buy cheap. That way you eventually have every version and every feature that everyone else had, but you got it (at least) a year later than everyone else. This can not happen with the membership scheme. Whenever you buy in you instantly get the latest version. To be honest, if you're a casual amateur user and know you'll maybe doing other things during the summer, your best option is probable to pay monthly when you use it and stop paying when you don't. As long as you take 3 months off sometime during the year it will be cheaper than the annual and you still get all the latest toys. The downside is you don't get to keep them, but that shouldn't be an issue if you're not even using it for 3 months or more...
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:37:36
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Paul P
I guess some of you missed the above post / quote :
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
June '16 - $20mo/$200
June '17 - $20mo/$200
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145782
-> click the link
The way I read this is that Cakewalk has spoken on the matter.
I actually did see you post that but because it was cropped I thought it was just referring to the regular renewal fees for up to date users. In that post he seems to be confirming that yes... you can wait TWO years and still pay the same upgrade price as everyone else thus getting 2 years of previous product free on TOP of the next 12 months. Now that's a pretty sweet deal but man... it doesn't seem like the best approach. That is begging to be ultra gamed. Maybe they just don't care and simply want us to be happy. If so... mission accomplished. lol
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Paul P
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:41:54
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Kylotan
And I too am slightly concerned about the cost mounting up - as someone who could only justify upgrading every 3 years or so, I can't commit $720 to Cakewalk over that time period (36 months x $20) when previously I would have paid maybe $200 to upgrade. So, I could pay for one year, leave it for two years... but then if the rejoining price is hiked too far, I won't be able to justify it.
Actually, three years will cost you 550$ if you keep up to date during that period (150+200+200), unless you want to pay 20+% financing. It will cost you 200$ if you wait till the end of the three years before upgrading. So 66$/year. And there may be sales along the way.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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John
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:47:05
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I have been watching this thread from the beginning. My impression after looking at the videos and reading the new features is I am impressed. I am also pleased with the new purchase methods.
Because I have not run or used the new Sonar yet I can't comment on how well it works or if these new features are as good as they look. My past experiences with releases have been excellent. I trust this will be at least as good.
Clearly CW has listened to the forum and has tried to implement features that users have asked for.
I am also pleased that they have announced this at this time and not waited for NAMM.
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:48:10
(permalink)
Atsuko
Ryan, I think you had an overreaction, I have a real preocupation and I don't intend to convince anyone - don't do this, please, it's unfair, the new store is really confusing me. I've never had a problem with the old store but when I enter the new one, the prices that are shown is too expensive. On the other day a product costing about US$150 was shown for me more than R$1.200!! but the axchange rate for US$150 is R$420!! That's my concern, I'm worried to not be able to upgrade and this is a thing I hope to do the moment you make the software avaialable.
I'm sorry Atsuko. My response was more so in regards to the styling error pointed out by azslow3 (whom I do believe is bringing up legitimate concerns as well). I think we should discuss those types of issues outside of this thread. There was definitely some confusion and, in most cases, specific questions are better handled on a case-by-case basis. The reason is because people have different product ownership, live in different countries and have different currencies. In other words, it's impossible to provide one answer to all customers since the way the price is reflected is based on a variety of factors. To reiterate, those factors are: 1) Previous Product Ownership that would qualify you for particular upgrade pricing 2) The country selected in your Cakewalk Account profile 3) Your IP address based on your location in the world 4) Your billing address Manipulating these parameters can lead to a lot of confusion, especially when you throw in exchange rates, etc. The good thing is that Cleverbridge offers direct sales support to answer these types of questions from qualified individuals who specialize in these types of discussions. We recently worked with Cleverbridge to correct an issue that was not reflecting upgrade pricing properly in some conditions. This fix just went live a few days ago. It is very possible that the price you saw was a result of this. Ultimately, when you add an item to the store cart, it should reflect your upgrade pricing. If you are seeing the full price of a product, click [BUY NOW] so you can see it in the cart. At this point, you should always see the pricing based on your ownership. Anyhow, I don't think these types of concerns should have people worried about whether or not we're here to support them. We have multiple methods where customers can get in touch with us to find the proper answers and correct issues such as these. Best bet is to work with us directly so we can find the right answer and solution.
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Karyn
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:48:34
(permalink)
Paul P
I guess some of you missed the above post / quote :
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
June '16 - $20mo/$200
June '17 - $20mo/$200
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145782
-> click the link
The way I read this is that Cakewalk has spoken on the matter.
Thanks Paul, I've been looking for that post for hours... They way I read his answer to question 1. His simply states what the current renewal price would be, disregarding that there may have been a "long" period of non membership. For Question 2 where it is specifically asked in regard to non-membership he mentions the old upgrade/version mechanic Seth
Steve
- (Assuming the price next January '16 is $199, as advertised), how much will it cost me to re-join in:
- June '16?
- Or even in June '17?
- If in the example above, I decide to re-join in June 2017 (i.e. after having not been a member for 18 months), will I immediately be upgraded to the then current up-to-date version of SONAR?
Thanks.
Hi Steve! 1. June '16 - $20mo/$200 June '17 - $20mo/$200 2. Yes, you would have the newest up to date version of SONAR. Similar to the current upgrade/version mechanic.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:49:14
(permalink)
Karyn
Beepster
The thing is you are always going to have folks who will stay current and those who lag behind ......
In the past you could wait for the price drop just before a new version release and buy cheap. That way you eventually have every version and every feature that everyone else had, but you got it (at least) a year later than everyone else.
This can not happen with the membership scheme. Whenever you buy in you instantly get the latest version.
To be honest, if you're a casual amateur user and know you'll maybe doing other things during the summer, your best option is probable to pay monthly when you use it and stop paying when you don't. As long as you take 3 months off sometime during the year it will be cheaper than the annual and you still get all the latest toys. The downside is you don't get to keep them, but that shouldn't be an issue if you're not even using it for 3 months or more...
Unfortunately that wouldn't work for me at all because I work in spurts and never know when the urge will strike or how long it will last AND I'm on a very strict budget. Much better for me to outright own my stuff. Now if they offered blocks of program time for a fixed rate like I described earlier that could work but still I prefer to outright own stuff. If it were another company/product I wasn't already familiar with or it was a program that had functions I only needed for a specific task then renting would make sense but Sonar upgrades have (so far) always had something groundbreaking for my workflow and I know it will always get used (in fact I just installed X1 on my laptop recently and I use a lot of the plugs from X1/2 that got yanked in X3). My problem is just scrounging up cash in a timely manner. Also I'm kind of semi-pro. Even though I'm not currently making cash Sonar is being used to develop content for my upcoming business ventures.
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ChazEd
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:52:06
(permalink)
Paul P
I guess some of you missed the above post / quote :
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
June '16 - $20mo/$200
June '17 - $20mo/$200
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145782
-> click the link
The way I read this is that Cakewalk has spoken on the matter.
Thanks for the info. Yeah I missed that post, maybe because of my time zone. Question answered! And I just wanna to say that $200 a year is not the end of the world, I can pay it easily (for now). But I can´t see the future, and everybody know that sh*t happens.
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WallyG
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:53:10
(permalink)
Soft Enerji
karlssonhaus@googlemail.com
Soft Enerji
Just trying to get a definite answer to the Addictive Drums question that has been asked. Will I be able to use my ADpaks, MIDIpaks and Kit Pieces that I already own and use in AD 1, with AD 2?
I think - no. It just AD2 engine with 3 drumpacks, midipacks and kitpieces. If you want upgrade your existing AD1 packs you have to pay $79
OK, that's not a deal breaker. Can anyone advise whether I'll then have both AD1 and AD2 as separate plug ins? That's if I don't upgrade AD1.
Yes, that's what I have now on Sonar X3. Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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Crowned One
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 10:58:54
(permalink)
I did not see it on all that I read so far is there still going to be a 32bit version?
Also did not notice any answer on how long the intro period will be?
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:08:07
(permalink)
Beepster
Paul P
I guess some of you missed the above post / quote :
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
June '16 - $20mo/$200
June '17 - $20mo/$200
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145782
-> click the link
The way I read this is that Cakewalk has spoken on the matter.
I actually did see you post that but because it was cropped I thought it was just referring to the regular renewal fees for up to date users. In that post he seems to be confirming that yes... you can wait TWO years and still pay the same upgrade price as everyone else thus getting 2 years of previous product free on TOP of the next 12 months.
Now that's a pretty sweet deal but man... it doesn't seem like the best approach. That is begging to be ultra gamed. Maybe they just don't care and simply want us to be happy. If so... mission accomplished. lol
Lets say I personally buy into membership today and continue to stay on board. By July 2016 I'll have every SONAR update released from now until then. I will be able to roll back and forward to any build of SONAR released during that time which will include bug fixes and both minor and major new features. I will also have any badass content additions that came about from now until then. Let's say you don't buy into membership until February of 2016. By July 2016, you will also have the latest build of SONAR just like me. In contrast, you will only be able to roll back and forth between builds of SONAR between February 2016 and July 2016. Also, in contrast, you will not have any content that was delivered to me between now and February of 2016. That's mine, not yours. You should have signed up earlier if you wanted it ;). Also, I'll have recorded a lot more music then you, so you missed out yet again! Obviously beyond that, you will have to either pay a full year upfront or complete 12 consecutive monthly payments for you to keep what you're getting, so if you're paying monthly and decide to cancel your membership before February 2017 you'll revert to demo mode. It's a pretty good deal for you in terms of being up to date with SONAR, but by lapsing your membership there will be things you'll miss out on. Also, you do need to commit to a full year (either up front or by 12 consecutive monthly payments) to forever keep what you paid for. I hope that helps provide some clarification.
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Atsuko
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:09:43
(permalink)
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Atsuko
Ryan, I think you had an overreaction, I have a real preocupation and I don't intend to convince anyone - don't do this, please, it's unfair, the new store is really confusing me. I've never had a problem with the old store but when I enter the new one, the prices that are shown were too expensive. On the other day a product costing about US$150 was shown for me more than R$1.200!! but the axchange rate for US$150 is R$420!! That's my concern, I'm worried to not be able to upgrade and this is a thing I hope to do the moment you make the software avaialable.
I'm sorry Atsuko. My response was more so in regards to the styling error pointed out by azslow3 (whom I do believe is bringing up legitimate concerns as well).
I think we should discuss those types of issues outside of this thread. There was definitely some confusion and, in most cases, specific questions are better handled on a case-by-case basis. The reason is because people have different product ownership, live in different countries and have different currencies. In other words, it's impossible to provide one answer to all customers since the way the price is reflected is based on a variety of factors. To reiterate, those factors are:
1) Previous Product Ownership that would qualify you for particular upgrade pricing
2) The country selected in your Cakewalk Account profile
3) Your IP address based on your location in the world
4) Your billing address
Manipulating these parameters can lead to a lot of confusion, especially when you throw in exchange rates, etc. The good thing is that Cleverbridge offers direct sales support to answer these types of questions from qualified individuals who specialize in these types of discussions.
We recently worked with Cleverbridge to correct an issue that was not reflecting upgrade pricing properly in some conditions. This fix just went live a few days ago. It is very possible that the price you saw was a result of this. Ultimately, when you add an item to the store cart, it should reflect your upgrade pricing. If you are seeing the full price of a product, click [BUY NOW] so you can see it in the cart. At this point, you should always see the pricing based on your ownership.
Anyhow, I don't think these types of concerns should have people worried about whether or not we're here to support them. We have multiple methods where customers can get in touch with us to find the proper answers and correct issues such as these. Best bet is to work with us directly so we can find the right answer and solution.
Thanks, Ryan. Yes, I agree it's a case to discuss out of the forum, that's the reason I filled the feedback report in the end of the last year. Also, my account still doesn't show all of my products, Dean has sent me a message and asked me to reply if there's still missing products, I replied in 2nd january but till now, no response. I'm sure all of the issues will be resolved, I'm gonna wait. Thanks, again.
Desktop Intel I7 12GB RAM Win 10 64bit - Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 2nd gen - Roland A-300 PRO - Yamaha HS50M speakers - Sonar Platinum/CbB - Samplitude Pro X3 - Studio One 4 - Melodyne 4 Studio - Ozone 8 Adv - Neutron 2 Adv - RX7 Adv - ARC2 // Notebook Dell I7 8GB RAM Win 10 64bit
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mdages
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:14:27
(permalink)
I've read page 1-10 and skipped the rest here, because always the same questions with the same answers.  Subscriptions models seems the new trend in professional software marketing. Avid changed to support plans and Cakewalk Memberships seems the same. I have no problems with such more service oriented selling plans. $149 for the first year of platinum seems fair, the $199 for following years depends on the service and update quality of the first. Will there be prices in Euro or do we have to pay in Dollar and exchange will made by bank/paypal? With such a membership subscription I'll expect much better support and service as in the past. Dear Cakewalk, you've to change and improve much on this. The respond times and quality of support answers were very bad in the last months. Such support quality isn't acceptable if I pay for such a membership plan that explicit includes technical support. Waiting weeks for answer from support, as it was in the past, will make users angry if they paid for it. Also I'll expect updates on a regulary basis of about 3 months. You can't advert for better update frequencies in a membership and half a year nothing happens. So, I hope you know what you're doing Cakewalk. _Markus
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bluzdog
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:16:02
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby cparmerlee 2015/01/15 11:25:32
I hope not to get lambasted again but here are my observations, opinions and questions about the new Sonar. I did peruse the previous pages but the possibility that I missed some information is high. Please excuse me for being a little squeamish about posting.
What I like:
The Mix recall feature, the Pattern tool , the new CV FX bins and sends, the collapse feature on the control bar, Vocalsync, midi stretch and the AD2 Producer bundle.
What I don’t like:
The name, it says nothing about the innovation that went into the new version of Cake’s flagship product. I had a version with this name back in 1900 (according to Cake in my old user account area) in reality was it almost 15 years ago?
Losing tech support for what you have already purchased unless you continue making payments for future content. It’s like Waves WUP in that regard but on a larger scale.
The future drum replacement promise doesn’t do anything for me. I’ve been using Slate Digital Trigger for years and I’m more than happy with the workflow and results. If Cake can improve on that I’ll be blown away.
The membership / subscription model, out of the gate is great. $149 for 2 years of the Bakers best work along with the AD2 Producer bundle is more than fair. After that you pay $50 more ($199) for 1 year of the Bakers best work and who knows what else. By design the value of this system goes down 50% but the cost goes up 30%.
Questions:
Can the CV track sends and FX bins be easily collapsed to save real estate?
Are there any new routing options?
Are the new amp sims part of TH2?
Is there a list of “under the hood” improvements?
How long will X3 be supported?
F.w.i.w. I’m still on the fence. Thanks.
Rocky
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:19:10
(permalink)
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Beepster
Paul P
I guess some of you missed the above post / quote :
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
June '16 - $20mo/$200
June '17 - $20mo/$200
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145782
-> click the link
The way I read this is that Cakewalk has spoken on the matter.
I actually did see you post that but because it was cropped I thought it was just referring to the regular renewal fees for up to date users. In that post he seems to be confirming that yes... you can wait TWO years and still pay the same upgrade price as everyone else thus getting 2 years of previous product free on TOP of the next 12 months.
Now that's a pretty sweet deal but man... it doesn't seem like the best approach. That is begging to be ultra gamed. Maybe they just don't care and simply want us to be happy. If so... mission accomplished. lol
Lets say I personally buy into membership today and continue to stay on board. By July 2016 I'll have every SONAR update released from now until then. I will be able to roll back and forward to any build of SONAR released during that time which will include bug fixes and both minor and major new features. I will also have any badass content additions that came about from now until then.
Let's say you don't buy into membership until February of 2016. By July 2016, you will also have the latest build of SONAR just like me. In contrast, you will only be able to roll back and forth between builds of SONAR between February 2016 and July 2016. Also, in contrast, you will not have any content that was delivered to me between now and February of 2016. That's mine, not yours. You should have signed up earlier if you wanted it ;). Also, I'll have recorded a lot more music then you, so you missed out yet again! Obviously beyond that, you will have to either pay a full year upfront or complete 12 consecutive monthly payments for you to keep what you're getting, so if you're paying monthly and decide to cancel your membership before February 2017 you'll revert to demo mode.
It's a pretty good deal for you in terms of being up to date with SONAR, but by lapsing your membership there will be things you'll miss out on. Also, you do need to commit to a full year (either up front or by 12 consecutive monthly payments) to forever keep what you paid for.
I hope that helps provide some clarification.
Indeed it does however what kind of content are we talking about that may be missing? Like the Content Club style freebies of sound banks, third party instruments (like the AAS stuff), loops, etc... or are we talking Cake plugins like PC modules that normally get included in versions? And I guess you guys may toss in your paid plugs like the Concrete Limiter for example (which of course is just an example but I mean stuff not part of the main program) so I don't mean things like that. Basically I'm mostly concerned about missing out on plugs or features in the main package. Not extra content which I'm assuming would be advertised beforehand to entice chuckleheads like myself to act. That may not be particularly answerable but just a rough idea would be cool. And yeah... that's a very generous model. Glad you took us broke arse slackers into account. I don't really foresee needing to really rollback that precisely. Thanks for your answer. It was the only thing really confusing me about all this. Cheers.
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stxx
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:21:00
(permalink)
FYI: The video said available "today". Sweetwater is taking orders and download will (should) be available 21st. WARNING: Thoise trying to hide the cost from your wife be warned. Your "friendly Sweetwater rep will call you back within 15 min of ordering! LOL!
Sonar Platinum, RME UFX, UAD 2, Waves, Soundtoys, Fronteir Alphatrack, X-Touch as Contl Srfc, , Console 1, Sweetwater Creation Station Quad Core Win 8.1, Mackie 824, KRK RP5, AKG 240 MKII, Samson C-Control, Sennheiser, Blue, AKG, RODE, UA, Grace, Focusrite, Audient, Midas, ART Song Portfolio: https://soundcloud.com/allen-lind/sets/oth-short
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:23:29
(permalink)
Karyn
dwardzala
KPerry
I'm showing my age maybe, but surely the Cakewalk "subscription" model is nothing more than a digital version of good old fashioned hire purchase? And I can't remember people complaining that the they'd have the nice drum kit they bought on HP taken away if they stopped paying the monthly installments...
It's exactly the same model - just digital: you can buy up front, you can buy on HP, and you own the (licence to use the) software in perpetuity when you've paid the requisite amount. Even if there are no new features, it's exactly the same model...did you expect to get a new cymbal 6 months into your drum kit purchase plan?
That's a very good analogy.
To be more accurate, once you've paid off your drum kit you can choose to keep on paying the monthly HP charge. If you do, then in six months time you may get another cymbal or it may turn out to be a cowbell.
Either way, if your kit doesn't include enough cymbal stands for the new cymbal/cowbell you'll have to keep on paying the monthly HP and wait for the next product fix release to be able to use your shiny new cymbal/cowbell properly. Assuming the issue of not enough cymbal mounting points gets fixed in the next update...
Well...not quite. While the financing scheme is fairly traditional, getting features as soon as they're ready, modular installation, and being able to deploy bug fixes - not just features - more rapidly are a significant change because unlike other subscription models, what you buy doesn't expire. If you keep paying, it's not that you "may" receive something in six months, you will have an idea of what to expect because Cakewalk will be more open about their roadmap (cf: the Drum Replacer being on-deck). I'm just waiting for the green light to talk about what I'll be providing. The schedule is for monthly updates so that's quite a bit of stuff. And don't forget that now there's a feedback mechanism, the features and new ideas forum, which will help Cakewalk prioritize which features are most important to the community. A lot of the added features that were just announced are the direct result of forum comments from the community, but they were collected on an ad hoc basis. Now there's a more formal way to evaluate what people want.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:23:34
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Karyn
People need to get away from thinking in terms of "upgrade price" and move toward "membership fee".
You are not paying for upgrades to Sonar, you are paying a monthly/annual Cakewalk membership fee.
I think the difficulty people have is that past efforts at "club" type status resulted in a bunch of downloads that I had zero interest in. I am interested in improvements to the core engine, not in having 100 downloaded add-ons that I will never use. Many of them were just degraded versions that were pumped out as an inducement to buy the full versions. I shouldn't have to pay anybody to market to me. If that is what many of the downloads will be, then Cakewalk should be PAYING ME a subscription fee for taking the time to consider buying the full versions of the "freebies". This initial launch does include a small number of improvements to the core product. That may be enough for me to justify the initial upgrade, but "membership" is asking people to buy a pig in a poke. I do think the Cakewalk / Gibson folks are well intentioned, so I might consider this, but this is a model I wouldn't consider from most companies, and I suspect it is going to be very damaging to Sonar's success in the market for that reason.
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:23:41
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Beepster
...
Basically I'm mostly concerned about missing out on plugs or features in the main package. Not extra content which I'm assuming would be advertised beforehand to entice chuckleheads like myself to act.
That may not be particularly answerable but just a rough idea would be cool.
...
You're right. I don't think I personally can fully answer that with specifics. The obvious goal is for everything we release to be something you wouldn't want to miss out on, so the pressure is on us to keep you enticed and a member forever :)
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:26:34
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ChazEd
Why should I pay for something I didn´t use?
Because going forward, you get to use it.
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ChazEd
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:32:00
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Anderton
ChazEd
Why should I pay for something I didn´t use?
Because going forward, you get to use it.
Thanks Craig. All I wanted to know was already answered by a post from Seth that I missed. My bad. Sorry.
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BassDaddy
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:39:00
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stxx
FYI: The video said available "today". Sweetwater is taking orders and download will (should) be available 21st. WARNING: Thoise trying to hide the cost from your wife be warned. Your "friendly Sweetwater rep will call you back within 15 min of ordering! LOL!
Instructing the youth of the nation is so rewarding. Change your Sweetwater account phone number from house phone to your cell. Thus endeth the lesson.
It's Bass, not Bass. i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3, 2 SSD sample drives and OS drive, HDD SATAIII for projects, 2 24" monitors Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Focusrite VRM Box, LAVA Lamp, SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Mackie MCU and 1 MCU XT, Akai Advance 49, Windows 10, Komplete 9 Ultimate, Cakewalk, Toontrack, IK, AAS, XLN, UVI, Air Music Tech, Waves Factory, Sample Tek and Sonivox VSTi's. Overloud, T-Racks, Audio Damage, D16, Nomad Factory, Waves Gold FX
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WallyG
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:42:59
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tKx5050
WallyG - I'm apologize if I'm missing something, but I had to pay the upgrade fee when AD2 came out to get my Sonar AD1 kits upgraded as did everyone else at the time if they wanted the upgrade. We didn't get it for free. If I'm missing something in translation then nevermind....
I'm mostly upset with XLNAudio (as others are if you go to the Software forum) that they intentionally misled me with their producer bundle. (XLN was informed that their WEB site was misleading, but they did not change it) It appeared that if you purchased the Producer Bundle (for $179), the Addicitive Drums 2 application would be included (it was) and I would be able to use my AD1pacs. After installing it, I found this not to be the case. I would have to pay an additional $79 for them to all play together. Addictive Drums 2 with Sonar is a different case. I realize that XLNAudio has to make money and can't just give away their products with the new release of Sonar. I assume they are hoping that you will buy more ADpacs and/or "UPGRADE" your Addictive Drums to Addictive Drums 2 so all the ADpacs work in AD2. This is reasonable and fair. The $179 purchase I made with XLN was not. They did not clarify the difference between an "Upgraded" Addicitive Drums2 and the Addictive Drums 2 "Engine". Walt
post edited by WallyG - 2015/01/15 12:20:35
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:43:20
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Beepster
...
Basically I'm mostly concerned about missing out on plugs or features in the main package. Not extra content which I'm assuming would be advertised beforehand to entice chuckleheads like myself to act.
That may not be particularly answerable but just a rough idea would be cool.
...
You're right. I don't think I personally can fully answer that with specifics. The obvious goal is for everything we release to be something you wouldn't want to miss out on, so the pressure is on us to keep you enticed and a member forever :)
Right on. If I had my druthers I'd be fully subscribed at all times but you probably remember my financial predicament from last year. Not much has changed (yet) so I have to gamble with stuff like this. As long as the core program is there waiting for me though that's great (and appreciated). I pretty much own everything you guys make that's relevant to my production needs anyway so I should be reasonably safe (although missing out on shiny trinkets and bobbles is always a gut wrencher). Now if you started ramping up your PC module production or started venturing into hardcore mastering suite stuff a la Ozone then I would be scrambling to catch up. In a lot of ways for a guy like me the sheer robustness of the feature sets since I hopped on board with X1 and a few calculated extra purchases (like the CL and CA2A) means aside from core improvements there isn't much bobble-wise that I really need. Of course then you come along with MixRecall and I HAVE to have it (and before that SpeedComping/Melodyne and before that Take Lanes/TH2). lulz Edit: Actually TH2 was more of a surprise that I didn't think I needed at the time because I had just bought GR5 which immediately got put on the shelf because TH2 proved to be so good and now can't live without. With X2 the plugin draw was actually R-Mix which is still cool but not quite as magical as I had hoped.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:44:22
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☄ Helpfulby Del 2015/01/15 17:24:57
cparmerlee
I think the difficulty people have is that past efforts at "club" type status resulted in a bunch of downloads that I had zero interest in. But those were free, these are part of what you pay for and at least what I'm working on is custom content that is not available anywhere else. Much of it is proprietary material I use in my day-to-day work; I came up with it because I could not find what I needed elsewhere (e.g., hence the new amp sims). I am interested in improvements to the core engine, not in having 100 downloaded add-ons that I will never use. The updates will be a mix of additions to the core program AND content. I'm sure some content will be of no use to you and some will be of tremendous use. But that will be different for different people. Some of the things you might not use will be essential to others. By giving a well-rounded collection, hopefully everyone will feel they received enough for their own use to justify the cost. We can't expect everything to be relevant to everybody. This initial launch does include a small number of improvements to the core product. I wouldn't classify Mix Recall and VocalSync as "small improvements," especially when the closest you can come to VocalSync in the outside world will cost you almost twice the price of the update. The MIDI editing changes and AudioSnap improvements are significant, and the customized Control Bar is fantastic. The FX and Send stacks are really convenient. A lot of people said they didn't want more plug-ins and such, they wanted more improvements in core features and stability. So that's the focus for now, and add-ons like Drum Replacement will roll out over the next year. "Membership" is asking people to buy a pig in a poke. I do think the Cakewalk / Gibson folks are well intentioned, so I might consider this, but this is a model I wouldn't consider from most companies, and I suspect it is going to be very damaging to Sonar's success in the market for that reason. New users get 12 free months of membership so they have a year to experience whether it's worth it or not for them to renew. Current SONAR owners are aware of the type of updates CW produces over the course of a year, so there's some precedent. The biggest difference is there is additional original content to sweeten the deal above and beyond the updates. Remember, the onus is not on users to renew. It's on Cakewalk to produce features and content that makes people want to renew. The object of this model is not to see how little CW can get away with and still hold on to users, but to make happy customers - which is the only sure-fire way to be successful.
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tKx5050
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:49:17
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WallyG - I see where you're coming from. Like my mouth, sometimes my fingers engage before my brain does. 
Steve Sonar Platinum, Quad-Capture, I7-3770, 32Gb
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Paul P
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:51:11
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
It's a pretty good deal for you in terms of being up to date with SONAR, but by lapsing your membership there will be things you'll miss out on. Also, you do need to commit to a full year (either up front or by 12 consecutive monthly payments) to forever keep what you paid for.
I hope that helps provide some clarification.
Thanks Ryan for the confirmation and I agree that it's a good deal. At my current level of use I don't need much in the way of bells & whistles, nor does my livelyhood depend on having access to the latest and greatest, but I would very much like to be able to continue to update the core of the product every once in a while for improvements and fixes and I guess future OS compatability. You guys have covered a lot of bases and I can't see reason to be unhappy.
post edited by Paul P - 2015/01/15 11:58:42
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/15 11:51:53
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yevster
Here it is:
https://www.steinberg.net...grace_period_info.html
When a copy of Cubase 7.5 is activated, one automatically gets a license for 8 and a downloadable update. My original Cubase purchase was through a grace period and that's exactly how it went. MF seems to be without a clue :)
I clicked on that link. It's from over a year ago, and about a grace period for those buying Cubase 7 and being able to upgrade to 7.5. It doesn't say anything about Cubase 8, and I still don't see a link where you can buy Cubase 8 Pro now from GC or MF for $400. If you want it now the only option I see is paying $550 from a company like Sweetwater.
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