Greeny
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 18:59:26
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Well if you guys are happy to pay for features that we dont even have a clue about yet thats fine by me, I don't ask or expect everyone to agree with me you have the right to vote with your wallet just like I do.
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bapu
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 18:59:49
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Greeny
Yes something has changed, I pay the upgrade price, and dont get the updates right away. I dont know what I am buying how exactly is this better for me?
So you want updates before they are coded? That just not make sense. I own X3. I'll pay $149 up front. I'll get updates as they are available for 12 months. Simples.
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Greeny
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:00:27
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so you agree I choose to buy the upgrade upfront and I have no idea what half the stuff I am buying is cos I will be drip fed it over 12 months that is exactly my point.
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theheliosequence
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:02:22
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Ok, just to clarify... If I sign up for a month to month and the new version is messy enough that I feel like I'm going to wait on it... I can cancel, but I lose the new version.
If a few months down the road it seems like it's worth trying again, then I can go month to month again and I've got the software back.
If I keep going, after 12 months, then I've got all of the current features at the 12 month point even if I cancel. Now what about consecutive month 13, 14, 15? Do I "own" any current updates for every month past the 12th month? Or will it be another year before new features are owned without a monthly membership?
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:02:23
(permalink)
Greeny
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Greeny
This stinks. I shall be voting with my wallet, hello steinberg.
I sense a recurring theme starting here. Any chance you can share what aspect you're not a fan of? Maybe we can help to clarify? If not, the feedback would be helpful for us either way.
I want to buy a daw, I want to know what I am buying when I buy it, I dont want to be teased tyvm. When I part with my hard earned cash I want to know what I am buying. You dont buy a steering wheel with the promise of a car in parts over the next 12 months do you? No! So why should we be doing this with our daws?
Sounds like you prefer the annual upgrade model. Buy the current software and then wait 12 or more months to get new stuff and pay again. What we are offering right now is new features plus 12 more months of new features, updates, content, videos, etc. I would think it would be a win-win for you but having a hard time understanding why you this is bad.
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bapu
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:03:04
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Greeny
Well if you guys are happy to pay for features that we dont even have a clue about yet thats fine by me, I don't ask or expect everyone to agree with me you have the right to vote with your wallet just like I do.
What about the new version's features that were listed do you think you're not going to get when you pay the upgrade fee (whether monthly or up front)? Assuming you bought any version in the past as an upgrade you got all of those features, right? Same here. And, CW is proposing that they will release new content and patches as they are ready. You won't have to wait a full year (or longer as in the case of X3->"X4" for new content or feature.
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:03:31
(permalink)
Greeny
Well if you guys are happy to pay for features that we dont even have a clue about yet thats fine by me, I don't ask or expect everyone to agree with me you have the right to vote with your wallet just like I do.
Greeny, please read this page https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New
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Greeny
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:03:33
(permalink)
bapu
Greeny
Yes something has changed, I pay the upgrade price, and dont get the updates right away. I dont know what I am buying how exactly is this better for me?
So you want updates before they are coded? That just not make sense.
I own X3. I'll pay $149 up front. I'll get updates as they are available for 12 months.
Simples.
No I want to know what I am buying at the time I pay, is it that hard to understand? I dont see the option to buy the update as it is and not be drip fed stuff over 12 months, I am not seeing an option to pay less and not be drip fed stuff, if I see that option I have no issue.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:04:40
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theheliosequence
Ok, just to clarify... If I sign up for a month to month and the new version is messy enough that I feel like I'm going to wait on it... I can cancel, but I lose the new version.
If a few months down the road it seems like it's worth trying again, then I can go month to month again and I've got the software back.
If I keep going, after 12 months, then I've got all of the current features at the 12 month point even if I cancel. Now what about consecutive month 13, 14, 15? Do I "own" any current updates for every month past the 12th month? Or will it be another year before new features are owned without a monthly membership?
You wil continue to keep everything you own after the 12th month. So say you continue to renew for 6 more months and then decide for whatever reason that you don't want to be a member, you'd keep everything you received up until month 18. However, once you opt out, you'd have to do another 12 month membership or pay upfront.
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listen
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:04:44
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Here is the question - will I be able to download/update if my main system is not connected to the internet???
- Listen - FOH Mixer & Recording Studio Manager Nothing but the grace of God - mggtg. VS 700C - R / CONSOLE 1 / NEVE PORTICO 5017 / TASCAM UH-7000 / SONAR PLATINUM / REASON RECORD 9 / VMP 2 / UREI 7110's / UA LA-610 MkII / AUDIENT ASP 880 / CREATION STATION 450 V 5 WINDOWS 10 / HOME 64 - BIT / SKYLAKE CORE i7 (i7 - 6700, 4 CORES/8 THREADS)
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Greeny
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:05:10
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Greeny
Well if you guys are happy to pay for features that we dont even have a clue about yet thats fine by me, I don't ask or expect everyone to agree with me you have the right to vote with your wallet just like I do.
Greeny, please read this page https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New
I see 3 future additions I dont see 12 months wirth. I think you are missing my point I am not saying I get nothing now I know there is a host of new stuff, where is the option to pay less and not have the extra stuff that I dont yet know if I want cos I dont know what most of it is?
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:05:17
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That is exactly NOT what is happening Greeny. Not sure how many other ways this can be explained. I'm starting to get the feeling you are trolling or just being very obtuse. If not I apologize but go back and read the information Andrew has provided. This is just giving you extra ways to buy other than the old upgrade method.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:06:53
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Greeny
bapu
Greeny
Yes something has changed, I pay the upgrade price, and dont get the updates right away. I dont know what I am buying how exactly is this better for me?
So you want updates before they are coded? That just not make sense.
I own X3. I'll pay $149 up front. I'll get updates as they are available for 12 months.
Simples.
No I want to know what I am buying at the time I pay, is it that hard to understand? I dont see the option to buy the update as it is and not be drip fed stuff over 12 months, I am not seeing an option to pay less and not be drip fed stuff, if I see that option I have no issue.
Ok duly noted. Sounds like this is not for you. Just to be clear, the version we are releasing this month has a bunch of new features that you will getting right way. No one is dripping you these new features. What you will be getting is additional stuff over the next 12 months. Like I said before, you are sort of getting X4 and X5.
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redbarchetta
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:07:36
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No versions????
I can see one huge burn and churn with no versions... What about external content vendors. People who write books and create video content? Lets say Cakewalk adds a brand new widget feature that never existed before. It comes out April 2015.
Now lets say some person whats to create content, but he's working on content in say Feb/2015, but it's not released until May/2015
Lets say it's now July 2015 and I see a new video. I might expect this new feature to be talked about in this new video but it's not going to be.
Not only that but, tweaks to the way things work. It just seems to me that there is a good chance of people feeling jaded when the external learning content they purchase does not contain what they had hoped because there was no easy way to tell where the line in the sand is drawn.
Those may be bad examples, but I think you get what I'm saying.
Rick - Sofware Engineer by trade, Rock Star God wannabe Sonar X3 Producer
Roland Octa-Capture
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
Boss DR-880
Boss GT100
Line 6 Pod X3
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Greeny
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:08:15
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Beepster
That is exactly NOT what is happening Greeny. Not sure how many other ways this can be explained. I'm starting to get the feeling you are trolling or just being very obtuse. If not I apologize but go back and read the information Andrew has provided. This is just giving you extra ways to buy other than the old upgrade method.
I am not trolling, I read the stuff, I pay upfront for the upgrade $149, I get the new features now, then 12 months of extra additions, I dont see an option to get just the update now and not have to pay for 12 months of stuff. I assume the 149 covers the 12 months of new stuff also, but I dont want that cos this far I can only see what "some" of the new additions will be.
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bapu
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:08:46
(permalink)
Greeny
bapu
Greeny
Yes something has changed, I pay the upgrade price, and dont get the updates right away. I dont know what I am buying how exactly is this better for me?
So you want updates before they are coded? That just not make sense.
I own X3. I'll pay $149 up front. I'll get updates as they are available for 12 months.
Simples.
No I want to know what I am buying at the time I pay, is it that hard to understand? I dont see the option to buy the update as it is and not be drip fed stuff over 12 months, I am not seeing an option to pay less and not be drip fed stuff, if I see that option I have no issue.
OK, there are ne features that are listed that you get on day one when you upgrade. Why is that hard to understand? See Andrews post with the link. Then you have the choice of NOT accepting anything in the way of updates. Why is that hard to understand? You seem to keep implying that you get NOTHING on day one of the upgrade. There are features and content that have been listed that you get on day one.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:09:00
(permalink)
Greeny
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Greeny
Well if you guys are happy to pay for features that we dont even have a clue about yet thats fine by me, I don't ask or expect everyone to agree with me you have the right to vote with your wallet just like I do.
Greeny, please read this page https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New
I see 3 future additions I dont see 12 months wirth. I think you are missing my point I am not saying I get nothing now I know there is a host of new stuff, where is the option to pay less and not have the extra stuff that I dont yet know if I want cos I dont know what most of it is?
We'll be updating people with the new features coming up next. We've listed three already. But yeah, we won't be telling you what's coming up in November quite yet. I just don't think this is for you, and that's ok. You want to know everything that you get now and for all eternity. We can't do that.
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:09:01
(permalink)
Greeny
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Greeny
Well if you guys are happy to pay for features that we dont even have a clue about yet thats fine by me, I don't ask or expect everyone to agree with me you have the right to vote with your wallet just like I do.
Greeny, please read this page https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New
I see 3 future additions I dont see 12 months wirth. I think you are missing my point I am not saying I get nothing now I know there is a host of new stuff, where is the option to pay less and not have the extra stuff that I dont yet know if I want cos I dont know what most of it is?
Just get a membership for one month for Producer and you can try everything out. If you don't like or need all of it then you can buy the Artist or Professional upgrade instead. Seriously this is WAY better for your scenario than the old way. You did not have any option to try before you buy before aside from the demo which did not include ANY of the extras.
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:09:30
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Barak9 2015/01/30 06:28:01
Greeny
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Greeny
Well if you guys are happy to pay for features that we dont even have a clue about yet thats fine by me, I don't ask or expect everyone to agree with me you have the right to vote with your wallet just like I do.
Greeny, please read this page https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New
I see 3 future additions I dont see 12 months wirth. I think you are missing my point I am not saying I get nothing now I know there is a host of new stuff, where is the option to pay less and not have the extra stuff that I dont yet know if I want cos I dont know what most of it is?
Are you not scrolling far enough? There's a lot more on that page then 3 items. The other page is just a teaser for now. Keep in mind, every year we've released versions of SONAR with a slew of new additions with zero promises of any fixes. Whether or not there was one, two, three, four, five, etc. patches for the program purchased was pretty up in the air. That also did not come with the promise of what the updates would be (whether it be bug fixes, new features and/or content). Customers have been asking/begging us for years to improve on this! We've been listening! With this model, we're not only giving everyone all of the features included with the version of SONAR they purchase (and there are already a LOT of new ones since SONAR X3) but we're also promising 12 months of bug fixes, new features and new content for people who are in an active membership. If you're used to paying up front, that essentially means you're getting everything we've done up until now plus 12 months more!
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bapu
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:10:11
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Greeny
Beepster
That is exactly NOT what is happening Greeny. Not sure how many other ways this can be explained. I'm starting to get the feeling you are trolling or just being very obtuse. If not I apologize but go back and read the information Andrew has provided. This is just giving you extra ways to buy other than the old upgrade method.
I am not trolling, I read the stuff, I pay upfront for the upgrade $149, I get the new features now, then 12 months of extra additions, I dont see an option to get just the update now and not have to pay for 12 months of stuff. I assume the 149 covers the 12 months of new stuff also, but I dont want that cos this far I can only see what "some" of the new additions will be.
You DO NOT have to apply any updates during the 12 months of membership if you don't want to. Simples.
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Sixfinger
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:11:10
(permalink)
Yep I like it! Vocal align will certainly be useful, I do use audio snap and any improvements there will make life better. Who doesn't like customization :)
Sonar Platinum , ADK Computer -Intel - Penryn Quad Core Q9400 Processor, Windows 7 Home premium 64, RME Fireface UFX, Grace 101 Pre's, A-800 Pro, assorted mics, Strats ,Les Pauls, Mesa Boogies http://lionfeather.com
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Musikslayer
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:11:18
(permalink)
bapu
Greeny
Yes something has changed, I pay the upgrade price, and dont get the updates right away. I dont know what I am buying how exactly is this better for me?
So you want updates before they are coded? That just not make sense.
I own X3. I'll pay $149 up front. I'll get updates as they are available for 12 months.
Simples.
Agreed, Simples indeed. Seems there are always a few who make much ado about nothing. One can buy up front as usual or use a new monthly plan. No harm no foul, seems like a pretty good move on Cakewalk's part. I've only had X3 for a week (but go back to the Pro Audio days) so I'm still checking it out but I really like it. Nice to see Cakewalk continue in such a positive way.
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Beepster
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:11:47
(permalink)
Greeny
Beepster
That is exactly NOT what is happening Greeny. Not sure how many other ways this can be explained. I'm starting to get the feeling you are trolling or just being very obtuse. If not I apologize but go back and read the information Andrew has provided. This is just giving you extra ways to buy other than the old upgrade method.
I am not trolling, I read the stuff, I pay upfront for the upgrade $149, I get the new features now, then 12 months of extra additions, I dont see an option to get just the update now and not have to pay for 12 months of stuff. I assume the 149 covers the 12 months of new stuff also, but I dont want that cos this far I can only see what "some" of the new additions will be.
Just consider any new stuff as freebie bonuses. Just like the old Content Club. You are paying for what is shown in the features list... if you get extra stuff on top of that throughout the year how is that a problem? The upgrade prices are the same as they were last time around for X3.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:12:35
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Del 2015/01/14 12:26:07
redbarchetta
No versions????
I can see one huge burn and churn with no versions... What about external content vendors. People who write books and create video content? Lets say Cakewalk adds a brand new widget feature that never existed before. It comes out April 2015.
Now lets say some person whats to create content, but he's working on content in say Feb/2015, but it's not released until May/2015
Lets say it's now July 2015 and I see a new video. I might expect this new feature to be talked about in this new video but it's not going to be.
Not only that but, tweaks to the way things work. It just seems to me that there is a good chance of people feeling jaded when the external learning content they purchase does not contain what they had hoped because there was no easy way to tell where the line in the sand is drawn.
Those may be bad examples, but I think you get what I'm saying.
Yeah this might present a few issues with content providers, and we'll have to work with them to address it. But what we care more about is the customer experience and we like the idea that we'll be giving customers a lot more value and rolling out features sooner than later. So if we need to work a little extra harder with content vendors to find a system that works, we will do that. I don't see that as a good reason not to change our business and be more responsive to customers. Just my opinion.
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Greeny
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:12:42
(permalink)
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Greeny
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Greeny
This stinks. I shall be voting with my wallet, hello steinberg.
I sense a recurring theme starting here. Any chance you can share what aspect you're not a fan of? Maybe we can help to clarify? If not, the feedback would be helpful for us either way.
I want to buy a daw, I want to know what I am buying when I buy it, I dont want to be teased tyvm. When I part with my hard earned cash I want to know what I am buying. You dont buy a steering wheel with the promise of a car in parts over the next 12 months do you? No! So why should we be doing this with our daws?
Sounds like you prefer the annual upgrade model. Buy the current software and then wait 12 or more months to get new stuff and pay again. What we are offering right now is new features plus 12 more months of new features, updates, content, videos, etc. I would think it would be a win-win for you but having a hard time understanding why you this is bad.
This is my point Andrew where is the option to only pay for the update now? I only see the option to buy the update AND the 12 months of extra stuff.
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Greeny
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:14:02
(permalink)
Beepster
Greeny
Beepster
That is exactly NOT what is happening Greeny. Not sure how many other ways this can be explained. I'm starting to get the feeling you are trolling or just being very obtuse. If not I apologize but go back and read the information Andrew has provided. This is just giving you extra ways to buy other than the old upgrade method.
I am not trolling, I read the stuff, I pay upfront for the upgrade $149, I get the new features now, then 12 months of extra additions, I dont see an option to get just the update now and not have to pay for 12 months of stuff. I assume the 149 covers the 12 months of new stuff also, but I dont want that cos this far I can only see what "some" of the new additions will be.
Just consider any new stuff as freebie bonuses. Just like the old Content Club. You are paying for what is shown in the features list... if you get extra stuff on top of that throughout the year how is that a problem? The upgrade prices are the same as they were last time around for X3.
That's fine if that works for you, I dont see them as freebies cos I am paying for them regardless of what the last update fee was.
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theheliosequence
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:17:15
(permalink)
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
theheliosequence
Ok, just to clarify... If I sign up for a month to month and the new version is messy enough that I feel like I'm going to wait on it... I can cancel, but I lose the new version.
If a few months down the road it seems like it's worth trying again, then I can go month to month again and I've got the software back.
If I keep going, after 12 months, then I've got all of the current features at the 12 month point even if I cancel. Now what about consecutive month 13, 14, 15? Do I "own" any current updates for every month past the 12th month? Or will it be another year before new features are owned without a monthly membership?
You wil continue to keep everything you own after the 12th month. So say you continue to renew for 6 more months and then decide for whatever reason that you don't want to be a member, you'd keep everything you received up until month 18. However, once you opt out, you'd have to do another 12 month membership or pay upfront.
Ok, that seems fair. It is more expensive that the $100-$150 every year and a half or so, but it would be worth it if the software could be kept bug free more easily. BUT... BIG QUESTION!!! How do you implement this type of licensing? iLok? Or do we have to be connected to the internet? Please tell me there is going to be a dongle free offline activation that I don't have to run at the beginning of every month unless I purchase a year license in advance... Also, will this at all change the policy of having Sonar installed on more than one machine, just not used at the same time? I am still using Sonar for Live shows on a Laptop...
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drewfx1
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:17:24
(permalink)
I think his point may be that he's seeing his $149 as paying for the new features as well as the "coming soon" features and he'd rather only pay for the new features already released that he can evaluate before buying.
It's just a different way of looking at the pricing structure. To me I (too) am not going to pay $149 for promises, but I choose to look at it as I can evaluate the current new features to see if they're worth the upgrade cost and then I get a year's worth of free stuff.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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jps
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:17:32
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This is fab news :-)
Keep up the good work !
All the best
Jan
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Andrew Rossa
Max Output Level: -56 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1910
- Joined: 2006/04/14 13:33:18
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/13 19:19:16
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Greeny
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Greeny
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Greeny
This stinks. I shall be voting with my wallet, hello steinberg.
I sense a recurring theme starting here. Any chance you can share what aspect you're not a fan of? Maybe we can help to clarify? If not, the feedback would be helpful for us either way.
I want to buy a daw, I want to know what I am buying when I buy it, I dont want to be teased tyvm. When I part with my hard earned cash I want to know what I am buying. You dont buy a steering wheel with the promise of a car in parts over the next 12 months do you? No! So why should we be doing this with our daws?
Sounds like you prefer the annual upgrade model. Buy the current software and then wait 12 or more months to get new stuff and pay again. What we are offering right now is new features plus 12 more months of new features, updates, content, videos, etc. I would think it would be a win-win for you but having a hard time understanding why you this is bad.
This is my point Andrew where is the option to only pay for the update now? I only see the option to buy the update AND the 12 months of extra stuff.
I think this just isn't for you. There isn't an option to buy just the updates we are releasing today for some discount or anything. Upgrade price from X3 Producer is the same as it was last time and we've included a bunch of new features. You'll get all of those and we think it's a good value. Plus we are throwing in 12 more months of membership where you'll get even more features that you can choose or not choose to install. I guess you could always but it today for $149, get all the new features and then 11 months from now, when we've announced all the new stuff download it and it will be like getting a free upgrade :)
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