Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
 
We took into account the exact problems you mentioned, when designing the new model. A lot of us have experienced this type of headache in the past and we didn't want to potentially expose our customers to it. The assumption that we're just going off a Machine ID is false. It's not reliable enough.

Ok, look -  I'm not trying to be argumentative here.  But I think this is significant because it's now on the buyer to TRUST CW that the activation process is reasonable etc. 
 
So the first time I ever have an "issue" with the activation server being down, or I get a bounce because I did (???) that caused a flag to go up - and you're going to have a very pissed off customer.
 
That's cool - I have a very high opinion of the efforts CW is going thru to serve customers.   But there is now an additional "cost" to me (maybe small), and you have to prove that this system is robust.
 
>>The assumption that we're just going off a Machine ID is false. It's not reliable enough.
I hope "reliable" means "reliable" for the customer, yes?
 
 
 
 

doriginal
I don't like subscriptions. Yes, I like the new features that I have seen on the videos but I don't want to have to shell out money each time I want an update. I feel like if it isn't working right then fix it. Don't charge me for it. If I find that the new sonar model is like that. I most surely will go with Studio One, FL Studio where I don't feel nickled and dimed. I don't think I am the only one who will feel this way. Hopefully, they will just come back to the way it used to be. 
 
**FL Studio has updates for life. There is no subscription. This would be better. 

Basically it ends up being the same thing in the end. You get 12 months of updates and content for that 12 months as it is now. If you pay per month however, you get the updates yes but you also have to continue to pay for those 12 months in order to actually own the software for that year. Hope that helps somewhat. I doubt it cause I probably didn't explain it right but who knows..

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Nope this is for the AD2 Producer Bundle. You get to pick 3 ADpaks, MIDIpaks, and 3 kit pieces. This is exactly like if you purchased the Producer Bundle. It's an upgraded version of what we did in X3. And Professional includes 1 of each item listed above.

Just for clarification, as I did not upgrade to AD2... the new version of SONAR will count as the AD2 upgrade (meaning that AD1 material I own now can be used in the AD2 included with the new SONAR)?
 
I caught a couple of the "XLN fooled you" threads and found them very disconcerting.

Sorry if this has been asked. It's hard to keep up!
 
If we pay for the monthly subscription for, say, three or four months and then decide we want to purchase it outright, is what we paid for the subscription deducted from the full purchase price?
 
Thanks-
 
-Susan
 
 

Is there a list of issues that have been fixed in the New versions?

DrBoom

doriginal
I don't like subscriptions. Yes, I like the new features that I have seen on the videos but I don't want to have to shell out money each time I want an update. I feel like if it isn't working right then fix it. Don't charge me for it. If I find that the new sonar model is like that. I most surely will go with Studio One, FL Studio where I don't feel nickled and dimed. I don't think I am the only one who will feel this way. Hopefully, they will just come back to the way it used to be. 
 
**FL Studio has updates for life. There is no subscription. This would be better. 

Basically it ends up being the same thing in the end. You get 12 months of updates and content for that 12 months as it is now. If you pay per month however, you get the updates yes but you also have to continue to pay for those 12 months in order to actually own the software for that year. Hope that helps somewhat. I doubt it cause I probably didn't explain it right but who knows..

I'm reading it the way you are, DrBoom.
I think "subscription" may not be the best label here. It's more like rent-to-own.
Really, we have two options now.
1. Buy Sonar outright, and have full licence and benefits for a year( much as now).
2. Make monthly payments for a year, and retain the same benefits, as long as you make your payments.
I think this may open the door for a lot of new users.
For the price of a 12 pack(give or take), you can try out a full version of Sonar for a month. If you don't like it, you're not out much. If you do(and you probably will), pay it off.

Vern C
Because I guess it got lost in the shuffle the first time:
 
What if you're like me and got Addictive Drums 1 when it was offered with Sonar? Would I get Addictive Drums 2 this time?

Yes, you get the Producer Bundle so you get to choose 3 new ADpaks, MIDIpaks, and Kit Pieces. 

Susan G
Sorry if this has been asked. It's hard to keep up!
 
If we pay for the monthly subscription for, say, three or four months and then decide we want to purchase it outright, is what we paid for the subscription deducted from the full purchase price?
 
Thanks-
 
-Susan
 
 

Honestly, that's not a path we want to manage. There is no way to make that really automated. We'd be managing a lot of SKUs and scenarios. I understand why you might want to do that and then hope you can go back to paying upfront. I think that's why we want to offer a demo on day 1 so people can have 30 days to try out some of the new features. 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

theheliosequence

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

theheliosequence
Ok, just to clarify... If I sign up for a month to month and the new version is messy enough that I feel like I'm going to wait on it... I can cancel, but I lose the new version.
 
If a few months down the road it seems like it's worth trying again, then I can go month to month again and I've got the software back.
 
If I keep going, after 12 months, then I've got all of the current features at the 12 month point even if I cancel. Now what about consecutive month 13, 14, 15? Do I "own" any current updates for every month past the 12th month? Or will it be another year before new features are owned without a monthly membership?

You wil continue to keep everything you own after the 12th month. So say you continue to renew for 6 more months and then decide for whatever reason that you don't want to be a member, you'd keep everything you received up until month 18. However, once you opt out, you'd have to do another 12 month membership or pay upfront. 

Ok, that seems fair. It is more expensive that the $100-$150 every year and a half or so, but it would be worth it if the software could be kept bug free more easily.
 
BUT... BIG QUESTION!!! How do you implement this type of licensing? iLok? Or do we have to be connected to the internet? Please tell me there is going to be a dongle free offline activation that I don't have to run at the beginning of every month unless I purchase a year license in advance...
 
Also, will this at all change the policy of having Sonar installed on more than one machine, just not used at the same time? I am still using Sonar for Live shows on a Laptop...

This will all be managed from the new Cakewalk Command Center. No dongle required but internet connection is required to download the updates. And you can install on multiple machines. 

  Am I hearing this right?  Did you change the EULA where you can install on multiple machines but only have the software open on one machine?  (same as Reason, FL Studio and some other DAWs)  I like that.
 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

theheliosequence

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

theheliosequence

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

rtucker55
Just wondering if the Pricing sheet is correct?
 
From X3 Producer to Platinum it is $149 first 12 months then raises to $199 the second 12 months.  The renewal stays the same for the Pro and Artist series, there is no price increase...

We are offering current X3 customers a special introductory price on Platinum. The prices for the other versions are already pretty affordable considering the feature set (in my opinion).

Do you guys plan on having $199 being the yearly fee from now on for the top tier version? I don't use Pro Channel very often (I feel like I am already using the highest quality plugins available - UAD, Slate, DMG, Fab-Filter, Acustica, iZotope, BOZ Digital, Softube, etc.) so maybe it's time to downgrade (it's weird to even say that). There is just more add-on software for Platinum, correct? Or am I missing something?

You can certainly opt for Professional. I believe you just lose POW-r dithering. You wouldn't lose any of the plugins you had purchased up to that point. So it would be $99 for you to do that next year. You do have a year to decide that and it will be our mission to make sure you receive maximum value. Right now, you are getting a discount and essentially two upgrades, X4 and X5. 

So would I be able to use the Pro-Channel FX that I currently have in X3 Pro in the new Sonar if I only had the new Professional version? What about Dimension Pro and Rapture Full and things like Breverb Sonar VST, PK-64, VX-64, TL-64, etc. ? Or will it give me a message that these plugins don't work with this version of Sonar? I don't really every use most of these, but I'm curious for anyone else who would like to know. It certainly makes the Professional version seem like a good deal/value.
 
Also curious if the Vocal Sync is a plugin or if it's an integrated feature that is simply "grayed out" in the Professional version?
 
You should probably be more specific on the version comparison if you lose POW-r dithering... the web page says that each version has dithering options available.

If you go to Professional you won't lose any of those plugins or ProChannel modules. I'll have to check but I do believe POW-r is only in Platinum. So going to Professional is an option. VocalSync is integrated right inside SONAR. That's actually one of the cool things vs. something like Vocalign. It previews real-time and you can open it right in the track view and adjust. Check out the video. It's not greyed out in Professional because it's not there.

I checked out the video and the VocalSync does actually seem cool. I probably wouldn't ever use it on a lead voice, but for doubled vocals I definitely see some potential creative use. I typically don't like the sound of time stretching algorithms, but I already am curious to hear what it would sound like to sync various sounds to things like drum tracks. Or perhaps create a custom quantized drum pattern to use to use to quantize a bass line. Definitely see some interesting creative possibilities there!
 
I also see that a drum replacer is in the works for the Platinum version only and I'm curious what cakewalk brings to the table there. Integrating with the free drum sample programs does make me curious to try it all out. A lot of the other features look really nice as well. I was worried that Sonar could die under Gibson... maybe this will work out? How far ahead will Sonar typically be announcing new features? Any idea when we can expect the drum replacer?

How does support work under the subscription model? Let's say I buy a upfront subscription in February, I can get support until next February. But what if I do not renew again but have as potential bug say in March after the subscription runs out.  Is there still support or will Cakewalk require that I renew the supscription before they will talk to me?

Ok I have a honest question and I expect a honest answer. The paint tool. Ok, cool stuff, but. Are you guys purposely going out of your way to avoid making an actual, proper DUPLICATE functionality? I want to instantly copy my selected 4 bars into the next 4 bars into the next 4 bars into the next 4 bars etc by pressing ONE KEY. No mouse. Is that really too much to ask for?
 
Why do you always take eons to implement insanely basic features that every single other daws have?

nzpaul
 

Beepster
Sooo... the upgrade price for Producer is going to go up to $200? Okay now I'm gonna do a bit of grumbling... that's gettin' pretty steep, guys. Hope there will be plenty of sales throughout the year.
 
/grumbling

 
They're going to have to make a good sales pitch in a years time too because there won't be any big shiny release to sell - all the next years development should have already been released!
 

 Agreed.  Now they just call it Sonar. C'mon where's the flair?
 

scottfa
How does support work under the subscription model? Let's say I buy a upfront subscription in February, I can get support until next February. But what if I do not renew again but have as potential bug say in March after the subscription runs out.  Is there still support or will Cakewalk require that I renew the supscription before they will talk to me?

 I think that is a good question like will I have to pay for a repair now the warranty expired and you find out it should have been a factory recall.