javahut

FastBikerBoy


Q. Anyone want to take bets on how long before a developer writes a wrapper that allows any VST to be inserted as a PC module?

I'm waiting to see a bit more info but isn't this just going to be another FX bin with a fancier interface?

Won't the new X1 FX Chain Expanded do this? I'll be surprised if it doesn't allow you to integrate it into Pro Channel in some way.
 
So, basically... we'll be paying $49 for Expanded (which we'll call $49 for the Softube PC only Saturation VST), which also modifies PC so that new "modules" (VSTs) can be inserted (and purschased). Then we can pay $49 for another PC only VST that's a an Expander/Gate.

Why would anyone want to pay for VSTs that only work in SonarX1 Expanded? I already have plenty of Softube saturation that works in any host. I already have Sonalksis and Softube gates that works in any host. I don't really get why it's necessary for Cakewalk to start selling VSTs designed to only work in their host. Nor do I get why anyone would think this would be a profitable, sensable addition and direction for Sonar. You basically buy VSTs that almost everyone already has, but that would lock you into Sonar to use them. I really don't see the sense in this. VSTs are already available, which will be as good and in many cases better than what Cakewalk will offer. Maybe the prices for the Sonar X1 Expanded only "modules" (VSTs) will be be typically lower than typical VSTs for the same function. I still find this an odd strategy for Cakewalk to take. And I'm not sure it's a "professional" one.

I'm with you guys on this... I don't see enuf reason for developers to write specific to this bus, unless maybe it's a simple twist to their' exisiting vst.... Then it couldn't hurt, but it appears to need very specific graphics...

As to the fx chainer? My first thought was as yours... that it could be used to insert vst's within the PC bus, but I see no mention of it anywhere after scouring the pages for it... So I'm second guessing that it's simply a new skin/controller for the fx chains we got with X1... Too bad...

I hope my second guess is wrong!

Keni

SvenArne

Jonbouy


What are the chances of plug-ins that get produced for it end up being the ones you'd really choose use as you goto's though?

As long as the PC plugs are solid bread-and-butter plugs they will get used. If the PC consisted of rewrapped Sonitus plugs instead of the new ones, I would've used those, although I prefer the new comp/EQ (though I'd like numerical values on the EQ curve).
Cake team: Now that you've got Softtube on board, how about getting them to release their Tube-Tech emulations as PC modules?
 
Sven

Yeah baby! I'd love to see the tube-tech's find their' way here...

Keni

Bub


Hi Brandon,

Do you know if any other VST's come with X1 Expanded? It looked like there was more than just the new Saturation when I watched the video.

Thanks,

Bub

where can I see the video?
 

Is there a video out for this already?

jbow


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETKi3kWhIhs

0:46


J

Hi J...

Ah... that's the one I saw...

I'm surprised I heard comments saying how cool the new features are from this video and I can barely make them out... So I thought there was another video I hadn't found...

Thanks for clearing that up for me...

jbow


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETKi3kWhIhs

0:46

J

Yeah..that is more like it...thanks...looking forward to it...

vaultwit

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]

Hello dgrm44,

X1 Expanded is an add-on to X1 Producer and cannot be used as a standalone product. As such, its not really the 'next version' of SONAR as X1 Producer must present on a system to install/ use it. 

The Production Suite is simply a combination of X1 Producer, Expanded, the PC-4K Gate, and Z3ta+ 2, bundled into one box for new customers.

(not sure what Vista/ Win7 have to do with any of this)

SP

Seth, do you know if the Expanded fixes any bugs that were discovered after the X1c update? Or is it just purely add-on of features? My X1c still crashes randomly and, although I try to hit ctrl+s as after as I can, there are times when Sonar strategically crashes on me after doing some significant work to my project but before I can save.

True that, Sonar seems to crash on purpose when im also done doing a lot of significant work, causing everything to waste.

*bump*

So what's the verdict on this? Is it a new VST or is it a new user customizable skinning option for when you make your own FX Chain?

Bub


*bump*

So what's the verdict on this? Is it a new VST or is it a new user customizable skinning option for when you make your own FX Chain?

Most Reason users here will recognize it as the functional equivalent of a Reason Combinator as far as I can tell.

With Reason a combinator it allows you to route specific midi to the contained elements, provides assignable controls to the contained elements which means you can assign one rotary knob to perform simultaneous functions like increasing the knee on a compressor as you lower the threshold and perhaps simultaneously alter the frequency of a contained eq, for example.  These self programmed controls of course become automatable.

Not to be overlooked is that you still retain individual access to controlling the contained FX

Perhaps most importantly for many it seems these days, yes you will be able to put a picture of your favourite cat on it and reskin.

This functionality has been available to Reason users since Version 3 (2004?) of that app. albeit only being able to use Reason based FX (and instruments there) it is has been nonetheless a very powerful feature in subsequent versions of Reason.

It works very well which is probably why it has been aped here.  I've even feature requested a similar thing before, but I doubt it's appearance has anything to do with lil' ol' me.

mattox82


I hope they open this up for instruments as well; enabling us to make 'mega-patches'

If an instrument will run from the FX bin I don't see why it wouldn't work there.

All will be revealed.  I do think even as it is looking FX only presently, the best feature being touted though even though I'm not a fan of it being called FX chains 2.0 for sake of the upsell.

Jonbouy

John T


I think people read your point as being "this isn't a legitimate thing to charge for" (I don't know if you think that, but it came across a bit like that). I think it's totally fine for them to charge for optional extras like this, so I've no complaints. I'm just not currently likely to buy it.

If the soundcloud thing is really well implemented, that might edge it for me.

I don't think the modular Pro-Channel is legitimately chargeable even if the modules are. Nor do I think the export format to a specific notation program is.

The other aspect I have a problem with is value.  To me upgrading from the previous release and to get fully Expanded would cost £160.  I can buy Presonus Studio One Pro outright for a few quid more than that currently.  That would offer me more diversity of functionality over 8.5 than a move to a fully Expanded version of X1 would.

So it has all made me think carefully about moving forward.  I'd rather stay within Sonar rather than have a plethora of different apps, but I do want to make the best choice I can given how much time I spend looking at a DAW...

  Good luck with Studio One since there is no built in bit bridge to run your favorite 32 bit plugins in their 64bit app.

Jonbouy

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Jonbouy


I don't think the modular Pro-Channel is legitimately chargeable even if the modules are. Nor do I think the export format to a specific notation program is.

To be fair, Expanded is not just about the modularity, but also comes with a new Tube saturation effect. It also changes the way the PC is navigated.

Which should be able to be navigated within the advertised minimum spec of X1 requiring a 800 pixel high monitor, yes? 

It does - and without Expanded. You can A) Minimize EQ controls B) Hide CB or C) combo. Expanded simply increases the navigation options due to the possibility of having an increased number of modules.

Changes the way it is navigated?  Currently it can't be navigated within the inspector!

Maybe we have different definitions of navigation. You can move your mouse around the PC in the Inspector and manipulate the controls.

I was being fair to be fair, I understand that the saturation module adds value and I've already suggested that a Softube saturation plug at $50 is good value, but the fact you can't scroll PC in inspector view when its window isn't big enough to accommodate it has to be a bug or at least a bad implementation from the outset of the original product. 

Would be nice to have scrolling without having Expanded - yes, but it's not necessary to make the product work, especially at resolutions above 800 vertical. It's necessary when one has more modules than what come with Producer - which is why it's in Expanded. The two go hand-in-hand.

Personally (to be fair) I think you are making a big mistake charging for these measly updates, when the demarkation point falls nicely at the modules that do add value and people will spend on those in order to generate your interim revenue especially if they are ALL equally empowered and equipped to do so. 

OK, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. 

Sadly, it looks like most folk are prepared to chuck money at you regardless anyway so who am I to argue. *sigh*

p.s. any news on a Rewire update anytime soon?  I'd pay for that even though it's never worked properly 'as expected' since I came in on version 7.  I have an old email that says it's been submitted to development though which is some cold comfort I suppose.

So to be fair I'd say I've been bloody fair to you guys over the years.

I think people are willing to pay for Expanded simply because they want what it offers and feel it's a fair price for the goods. I don't think that's a bad thing and pretty much how it's all intended to work.


I'll bring up Rewire updates to development and see what they have to say. Unfortunately I don't currently have any worthwhile information on the subject.


My comments "to be fair" weren't meant to be confrontational. Your patronage over the years is most definitely appreciated as are your comments and criticisms about various aspects of what we do (or don't do).

Bub


Hi Brandon,

Do you know if any other VST's come with X1 Expanded? It looked like there was more than just the new Saturation when I watched the video.

Thanks,

Bub

The only new effect or instrument that comes with Expanded itself is the Softube Saturation. Although one can purchase Expanded bundled with the new PC4K Expander /Gate, bringing the number of new effects to two.

Jonbouy

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

SvenArne

dontletmedrown


Im trying to understand...

Why would a 3rd Party Dev want to program a PC module when they could program a VST that could be inserted anywhere in the chain?

A lot of people actually like the ProChannel, and sincerely believe that having plugs with slim, standardized GUIs sitting in the Track Inspector is the best thing ever! I know cause I'm one of em! Some plugs I consistently use I'd actually pay (not big bucks, but still) to have repackaged as PC modules!

I'm honest, I swear!

I'm one of them too. I reach for the ProChannel first. If it won't do what I want, then I go for the giant stash of VSTplugs. I didn't consciously start working this way - it just kind of happened. I just feel like I work faster this way.


And being able to open up the console or Inspector and just see what's patched, how it's set, and now, how it's routed at a glance is somehow very comforting to me.

Yes and you can confirm of course that PC isn't some new magic, these new modules will be VST 2.4 plugins customised to fit into the style of Pro-Channel.

Again I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all and see the benefits of the additional modules instantly available on all tracks, (just like a modular channel strip on a hardware desk.)

Looking through this thread there is confusion from some contributers as to what these modules actually comprise of, which is in fact to my mind just standard VST's specifically integrated into Pro Channel's GUI and thereby limited to exclusive for use in Sonar, yes?

As has been confirmed previously on this forum, ProChannel modules use the VST format in order to function. They are modified to work within the ProChannel framework.


To be clear, it is not a new plugin format, but instead dictates how a plugin manifests itself and how it is accessed. I guess one could say it's a "UI standard for specific VST-compliant plugins".

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

mike_mccue


I've already got so doooozies dreamed up!

;-)

I can't wait.  I'm currently working on an entire Hello Kitty collection myself.

Well, NIs Alica Keys VST has a PINK piano in the GUI....