Fearful Symmetry
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/29 14:04:11
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sykodelic
I hope X1C fixes the prochannel. I opened a project yesterday and prochannel was dead on two tracks. had to reroute to new busses. this happens to me alot.
I really hope someone's listening to this one. It's a show-stopper for me. I fear a lot of folk are not noticing this one. Or maybe it's unique to just a few of us?
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sykodelic
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/29 14:48:44
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I really hope someone's listening to this one. It's a show-stopper for me. I fear a lot of folk are not noticing this one. Or maybe it's unique to just a few of us? Totally agree. This one always hits me at the worst times and it is a show-stopper. Even with this bug though X1 for me is still the most stable DAW I have worked on and I have really high hopes for the future of X.
post edited by sykodelic - 2011/06/29 14:56:50
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/29 20:11:57
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I've never worked on a DAW that has it EFX switching on and off automatically all by itself.
And I've worked on lots of stable DAWs.
:-)
The Pro Channel debacle is becoming a dark comedy.
best regards,
mike
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Bub 
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 02:00:41
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Bristol_Jonesey
Ididn't realize how much I missed things like being able to fit to screen with a mouse click What's wrong with shift + F? It's certainly quicker than huntin for an icon and then clicking it, hoping you hit the right one. I even had this going in 8.5
Nothing if that's what you're used to. For me, I much prefer clicking the icon in my customized tool bar. I really like the track height icon too. EDIT: I wanted to add, the main reason I like the icons is I never have to take my eyes off the monitor. Not all of us are blessed with dainty hands {I wear a size 14.5 wedding ring} and trying to utilize all those shortcuts doesn't always go to plan when you're trying to concentrate on your screen. The problem is ... I'm forced to use Shift + F all the time in X1 ... which is the point of all of this ... you shouldn't have to be forced to adjust your workflow because of X1. Someone mentioned my workflow is wrong. Odd, it's worked well for me from Pro Audio 9 all the way up to 8.5. The options I had in those versions were the whole reason I stayed with Cakewalk all these years! Saying your workflow is wrong because X1 took away almost all of your options is a little ridiculous imo. And as for the monitor resolution ... please. I'm not going to upgrade my monitor because of X1.
envelopes are so much easier to add and edit. I used the create nodes at selection a lot in 8.5, it's an option when you right click, in X1 it's nowhere to be found. I think you have to hold shift? Again in X1, you don't need to add nodes - you just select a region in the timeline and drag the envelope up/down.
That's great! But it's such a radical change from every other version I've ever used and for the life of me I can't find it in the manual. How was I supposed to know about it ... ? Nobody has responded yet, please, show me where it tells you in the manual that the nodes at selection option is performed automatically for you. I would never have guessed in a million years that grabbing an invisible line would automatically add nodes in the area I selected. @Scott Garrigus ... I checked out your video. Thank you!
post edited by Bub - 2011/06/30 02:36:19
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sykodelic
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 04:05:01
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show me where it tells you in the manual that the nodes at selection option is performed automatically for you. I would never have guessed in a million years that grabbing an invisible line would automatically add nodes in the area I selected.
+1
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Keni
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 05:29:16
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SCorey
I used the create nodes at selection a lot in 8.5, it's an option when you right click, in X1 it's nowhere to be found. I think you have to hold shift?
It's automatic now. You just select an area of the automation and drag from the top of the track. Nodes are automatically created instead of a separate command that you have to access. If it would work consistently, it would be great. But if your envelope is already at the top of the track, it's a lot harder to find the 'hitpoint' to drag. And if your selection encompasses a clip plus handles on either side, the nodes that get created snap in to the clip boundaries not the selection boundaries.
Thanks for that tip Steve... I must admit that's one new feature I like. while not 100% perfect it's a great step forward for envelopes as I spend far too much time creating four nodes for every edit.... I've got a feeling this feature is gonna start saving me some time. This is a cool new feature! Good one Cakewalk! Keni
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gothic.angel
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 06:33:27
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
Bristol_Jonesey
Ididn't realize how much I missed things like being able to fit to screen with a mouse click
What's wrong with shift + F? It's certainly quicker than huntin for an icon and then clicking it, hoping you hit the right one. I even had this going in 8.5
envelopes are so much easier to add and edit. I used the create nodes at selection a lot in 8.5, it's an option when you right click, in X1 it's nowhere to be found. I think you have to hold shift?
Again in X1, you don't need to add nodes - you just select a region in the timeline and drag the envelope up/down.
Yes SHIFT+F has probably been my most used SONAR shortcut over the years.
...Nope, guys... don't pretend to not understand the point.... It's not JUST about SHIFT + F, it's a GENERAL issue.... you just CAN'T remember ALL KEY combinations, and there are scenarios where you may not be using the PC keyboard at all, when a single mouse-click is the most comfortable way... You may twist it inside-out as as much as you want... over and over.... but ALL AT ONCE visible customizable TOOLBARS (or modules...) are still the most convenient and surely FASTEST way.... ...which simply means they should be, AT LEAST, an option...................... 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 06:47:11
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That's great! But it's such a radical change from every other version I've ever used and for the life of me I can't find it in the manual. How was I supposed to know about it ... ? Nobody has responded yet, please, show me where it tells you in the manual that the nodes at selection option is performed automatically for you. I would never have guessed in a million years that grabbing an invisible line would automatically add nodes in the area I selected. I don't know if it's in the manual........... I got this tip form Scott's Power! X1 book. If you don't already have it, it's well worth grabbing a copy.
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gothic.angel
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 07:01:45
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Bristol_Jonesey
That's great! But it's such a radical change from every other version I've ever used and for the life of me I can't find it in the manual. How was I supposed to know about it ... ? Nobody has responded yet, please, show me where it tells you in the manual that the nodes at selection option is performed automatically for you. I would never have guessed in a million years that grabbing an invisible line would automatically add nodes in the area I selected.
I don't know if it's in the manual...........
I got this tip form Scott's Power! X1 book.
If you don't already have it, it's well worth grabbing a copy.
Yes, Power! X1 book is great... ...nevertheless it's NOT mandatory... thus people are not supposed to guess where and how features are NOW available... ...SONAR should be self-explanatory as much as possible, instead.... ...this is ONE of the points I personally find annoying in X1.... a lot of things are NOW hidden, MORE than ever.... surely more than in previous versions.... ...to me, that's "involution" ... and it's NO good...............
post edited by gothic.angel - 2011/06/30 07:07:51
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 07:35:50
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To be fair mate, in that respect X1 is no different to 8.5 & all previous incarnations.
There is a LOT of functionality which is not immediately apparent and the manual is/was of little use in digging out these little gems.
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gothic.angel
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 07:53:24
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Bristol_Jonesey
To be fair mate, in that respect X1 is no different to 8.5 & all previous incarnations.
There is a LOT of functionality which is not immediately apparent and the manual is/was of little use in digging out these little gems.
Hi B_J, mate..... To be fair, X1 is different, too different, indeed..... as it now hides almost ANYTHING within ugly "multi-level" menus and static unusable "off-screen" modules.... In THAT respect, unfortunately, it's almost totally DIFFERENT....................
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sykodelic
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 10:39:35
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.SONAR should be self-explanatory as much as possible, instead.
Name one DAW that is self explanatory and it obviously doesn't have very many features. 8.5 was not self explanatory. Different strokes for different folks but I find X1 alot more user freindly than earlier incarnations of sonar.
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fooman
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 10:47:36
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I never even use the fit to screen feature haha.
How do you guys find it useful? (I'm not being a jerk, I'm genuinely curious!)
I DO love the feature that lets me revert to my last screenset in S8. If I accidentally enlarge the size of all the tracks I can hit that button and everything goes back to way/size I had it. I hope that's still around in X1!
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gmp
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 11:56:36
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sykodelic
show me where it tells you in the manual that the nodes at selection option is performed automatically for you. I would never have guessed in a million years that grabbing an invisible line would automatically add nodes in the area I selected.
+1
My guess is this important feature is not in the help file. I printed out and studied the smart tool functions as it relates to editing and automation and it's not there. Adding nodes at selection was a biggie for me and I like the way the smart tool is able to do that. In fact the smart tool is a great improvement in general and everyone should check it out carefully and use it's full potential. I look forward to the day when I can actually use X1 for my important client projects. Our hope is in X1c.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 12:02:47
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gothic.angel
...Nope, guys... don't pretend to not understand the point....
It's not JUST about SHIFT + F, it's a GENERAL issue.... you just CAN'T remember ALL KEY combinations, and there are scenarios where you may not be using the PC keyboard at all, when a single mouse-click is the most comfortable way...
You may twist it inside-out as as much as you want... over and over.... but ALL AT ONCE visible customizable TOOLBARS (or modules...) are still the most convenient and surely FASTEST way....
...which simply means they should be, AT LEAST, an option......................
My PC keybooard is on the far side of my controller keyboard. My trackball is conveniently located on my controller. The more time I spend typing the more time I'm hunched over in an uncomfortable position. Moving everything to the keyboard is ergonomically very bad for me. These things are important if you spend many hours working! Sonar should return to the philosophy of choice that has made it so versatile and customizable for 2 decades.
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 12:29:22
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sykodelic
.SONAR should be self-explanatory as much as possible, instead.
Name one DAW that is self explanatory and it obviously doesn't have very many features. 8.5 was not self explanatory. Different strokes for different folks but I find X1 alot more user freindly than earlier incarnations of sonar.
8.5 was pretty much self explanatory to me. All the options I ever needed were already in the toolbar or a right click away. And if they weren't, I could add them (or remove them if I didn't use them). X1 ... well, it took me 6 months to figure out how to do nodes at selections ... I appreciate the free video's, and please keep them coming, but I shouldn't have to buy a power book or in depth video's to figure out how to use envelopes in a program that already comes with a manual.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 12:51:34
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This creating new nodes things from selections is in the manual, you know. Arguably not in the clearest language, but it is there.
I knew I'd seen it before, so I just had a look in the reference guide PDF, and it's on page 954 under the heading "To raise/lower an envelope across a time range".
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gmp
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 13:16:43
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John T
This creating new nodes things from selections is in the manual, you know. Arguably not in the clearest language, but it is there.
I knew I'd seen it before, so I just had a look in the reference guide PDF, and it's on page 954 under the heading "To raise/lower an envelope across a time range".
Thanks for finding it. It doesn't surprise me that it's in an 1850 page PDF reference file. Can you find it in the Help file? Certainly you agree this is a big oversight. For anyone that does automation this is a bedrock feature.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 13:22:35
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Hmm. Not sure I'm agreeing that it's a big oversight. The function's there, it's in the PDF, and a quick search reveals that it is indeed in the help file too.
Myself, I'm seeing it as "manual and help text could be clearer in places". What's obvious to one person won't be to another, and part of a manual writer's job, I suppose, is try to minimise that effect.
But no, I don't think this is particularly egregious or anything.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 13:34:50
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I think I learned about it while watching CakeTV.
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 14:10:00
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John T
This creating new nodes things from selections is in the manual, you know. Arguably not in the clearest language, but it is there.
I knew I'd seen it before, so I just had a look in the reference guide PDF, and it's on page 954 under the heading "To raise/lower an envelope across a time range".
This is the text from the 8.5 manual ... Adding Nodes at a Selection One of the most common automation tasks is to raise or lower an envelope over a specific time range. The Add Nodes at Selection command simplifies this task: simply make a time selection, right-click the desired envelope, and choose Add Nodes at Selection. Two pairs of nodes appear—two nodes at the From time, and two nodes at the Thru time. Each pair of nodes is only 2 milliseconds apart by default, so each pair looks like a single node, but if you drag the envelope segment between the two pairs up or down, you can see all four nodes. To Add Nodes at Selection 1. Make a time selection. 2. Right-click the desired envelope within the selected time range. The Envelope Editing menu appears. 3. Choose Add Nodes at Selection from the menu. Two pairs of nodes appear on the envelope—one pair at the start of the selected time range, and one pair at the end. Now you can drag the selected envelope segment up or down, and maintain the envelope’s shape. It took me less than 10 seconds to find it. This is the page from the X1 manual ... To raise/lower an envelope across a time range 1. Set the track’s Edit Filter control to the desired automation parameter (Track Automation or Clip Automation). 2. Drag in the time ruler to select the duration of the envelope that you want to raise/lower. 3. Do one of the following: • With the Smart tool , position the pointer within the selection near the top center of the track/clip, then drag up/down. • With the Move tool , position the pointer within the selection, then drag up/down. Why does there have to be such radical change and vagueness in X1? They've changed what procedures are called, rearranged everything, it's ridiculous. John T, thanks for showing me where that is in the manual. Again, I never in a million years would have found it. They've been calling it 'add nodes at selection' for ever. I've seen that section a dozen times but it never clicked in my head because I was looking for "add nodes" because that's what the function has always been called, the manual says nothing about them being added automatically ...
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 14:23:17
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Yeah, it's not a great piece of writing.
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Fearful Symmetry
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 14:39:13
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This "select/ drag" is a genuinely useful thing. I'm amazed I missed it!
Cheers
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cake2010
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 15:03:10
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Bub
X1 ... well, it took me 6 months to figure out how to do nodes at selections ...
You mean 6 minutes to figure it out?
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 15:08:33
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cake2010
Bub
X1 ... well, it took me 6 months to figure out how to do nodes at selections ...
You mean 6 minutes to figure it out?
No ... 6 months. I couldn't find it in the manual and just assumed they did away with it. Nowhere in the manual does it mention adding nodes at selections like in all previous manuals, so I assumed they left that function out of X1.
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Peter Morrison
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 15:08:53
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I've never worked on a DAW that has it EFX switching on and off automatically all by itself.
You Haven't lived
I had the same deal with nodes. Why change the naming. You are either in node mode or not
post edited by Peter Morrison - 2011/06/30 15:13:58
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timidi
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 15:10:54
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Um, this 'select nodes at selection' thingy is not new to X1. It's been in 8.53 for awhile..
just sayin.
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garrigus
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 15:21:29
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Fearful Symmetry
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 15:25:30
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timidi
Um, this 'select nodes at selection' thingy is not new to X1. It's been in 8.53 for awhile..
just sayin.
Yip, but not everyone uses 8.5
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garrigus
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Re:Sonar X1 - Where are we?
2011/06/30 15:35:47
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