keith
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/03/18 12:18:55
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets a firewire cable in the eye. Then who's gonna be laughing? Hm?
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jimknopf
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/03/18 12:24:09
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Spritual awakening??? Sonar religion?????? Firewire cable in the eye??? Free rations of dope and I missed it? Corling, you got the double dose instead, admit it! 
post edited by jimknopf - 2011/03/18 12:29:04
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Manny2003
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 19:33:36
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Probably my opinion doesn't matter, but I want to say that I always loved Sonar for its way to let the user access tools and the beautiful Piano Roll experience. It is impossible to me to use X1, no last note memory, no easy note drawing, no scrub tool button anymore... and years of experience thrown in the toilet since too many things that were there are now elsewhere or disappeared...
X1 is a real disappointment, for me and many other people I know... this is very sad because I always found Sonar more powerful and friendly than other products. Maybe it is still powerful but not friendly to me and collegues anymore.
Why don't Cakewalk leaves this old good features as optional and adds them back with an update? Is this so difficult? Please don't push customers that loved Sonar to buy other products or stuck with old version.
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brundlefly
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 19:41:02
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no last note memory That one, at least, will be fixed in X1c.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 19:46:16
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Manny2003
no easy note drawing
Double click creates a note.
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jm24
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 19:51:59
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John T
Manny2003
no easy note drawing
Double click creates a note.
Another example of more clicks, more work for the user, therefore less efficient.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 19:59:24
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Yeah, it's agonising that double click. How did they ever come up with something that weird in a Windows program? Double click? Weird, radical, out-of-nowhere idea that, for sure. You can still do single click if you like, with the draw tool. I think it's faster overall using the smart tool with double click myself, but each to their own.
post edited by John T - 2011/08/12 20:01:21
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relpomiraculous
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 20:05:21
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The double click is necessary for those of us who have "accidental single-clickitous" - the double click means you really want to insert that note... Just a thought on why they may have done it... The problem with the F keys is there is no longer any place to rest your left palm. The entire hand must be held aloft over the keyboard and that cause arm fatigue very fast. The letter keys can be easily accessed by the fingers with the palm resting on the very wide bottom edge of an ergonomic keyboard.
post edited by relpomiraculous - 2011/08/12 20:10:37
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 20:08:25
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I don't think so. Like I say, single click is still there on the draw tool.
The draw, edit and erase tools work more or less like they always did. The smart tool is new, and requires a new design, as it allows you to do almost everything with one tool. I think it's a brilliant piece of interface design, myself, but you don't have to use it.
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relpomiraculous
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 20:12:15
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I like the new tool and have gotten used to it now...
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jm24
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 20:15:48
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The problem, which Brandon has agreed needs to be changed, is currently not being able to select the default tool.
Having to hold a modifier key, or selecting the draw tool, from the heads up menu, and losing the other smart bits, is annoying at best.
Entering a few hundred notes with the default tool results in a few more hundred clicks. And very much slower.
This is not good. Not efficient. Not much fun.
Brandon has written that this will be changed.
J
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 20:20:53
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Why wouldn't you use the draw tool for that?
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timidi
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 20:45:24
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I've never used the "tools" in Piano roll. I just use 'alt- hover-do whatever'.
i guess I must be missing something.
To 'create' a note, I just cntrl drag an existing note.
Why use "tools"? what am I missing?
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 20:51:42
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Well... that's the smart tool that you're using.
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cryptexmarble 
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 21:10:15
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Corling
mike_mccue
Aw come on... F5, F6, F7, F8, F9 and F10 make a lot more sense.
It's streamlined.
It's Skylight™.
I guess it depends on your workflow.
IF you do A LOT of music composition with MOUSE CLICKS in the PIANO ROLL (which I do), the interface changes are a disaster.
I understand Cakewalk's desire to reduce "button bloat" in interface design.
What they failed to appreciate is that sometimes reducing "button bloat" creates "button bloat" if a specific set of extra buttons were calibrated to maximize efficiency at a specific task.
the second disaster IS , that the grid lines now dont show WTF is going on !! AAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHH how did you do thath CAKEWALK ?? YOU all drunk ? lol
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 21:13:42
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Grid lines showing here, in both track view and piano roll. There are settings for grid lines in both view's "View" menus.
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Twigman
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/12 21:15:42
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cryptexmarble
the second disaster IS , that the grid lines now dont show
Yes they do............have you checked your Snap settings?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 05:20:57
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If I'm doing a lot of note entering, I just use the Smart Tool and keep the Alt key more or less permanently pressed.
This way it's more or less EXACTLY the same as in previous versions.
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jm24
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 09:47:26
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Bristol_Jonesey
If I'm doing a lot of note entering, I just use the Smart Tool and keep the Alt key more or less permanently pressed.
This way it's more or less EXACTLY the same as in previous versions.
Yes. Look Ma, always two hands.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 09:49:00
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Luckily, I do actually have two hands. I realise this is unusual.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 09:58:38
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jm24
Bristol_Jonesey
If I'm doing a lot of note entering, I just use the Smart Tool and keep the Alt key more or less permanently pressed.
This way it's more or less EXACTLY the same as in previous versions.
Yes. Look Ma, always two hands.
Well, without getting too personal, what were you intending to do with the other one?
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jm24
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:07:25
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John T
Luckily, I do actually have two hands. I realise this is unusual.
Cute. But it means having to use 2 hands. My left hand no longer gets to fling itself about in ecstacy. And although we are both average with possession of, and reasonable control of, 2 hands, this is not the case for many. And the Arthuritis in both hands increasingly yells for changes in position and activity. Consequently, I am testing different ways of using all programs. There are at lest 2 companies that create addons to Sonar so physically challenged persons could use it. Because of its flexibility and accessibility Sonar has been held high in esteem. X1 removes much of both. This is sad. What will no doubt be coming is the ability to change the configuration of the smart tool. I particularly do not like the middle mouse button popup menu. I have it mapped to the enter key. Works great for all kinds of stuff. J
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:09:03
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The tool menu does has a keyboard mapping by default, you know.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:09:49
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Also, like I said earlier, you can just use the draw tool if you want the one-handed approach.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:10:29
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John, stop making 2 posts out of one.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:10:42
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Just to get your post count
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:10:55
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Keni
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:16:20
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jm24
John T
Manny2003
no easy note drawing
Double click creates a note.
Another example of more clicks, more work for the user, therefore less efficient.
...or more hands with an alt-click...
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:18:00
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Or using the draw tool for single click.
Do I keep writing this in invisible ink by accident?
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Keni
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Re:Sonar X1/a's Destruction Of The Piano Roll Interface And The Resulting End Of The Unive
2011/08/15 10:18:48
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John T
I don't think so. Like I say, single click is still there on the draw tool.
The draw, edit and erase tools work more or less like they always did. The smart tool is new, and requires a new design, as it allows you to do almost everything with one tool. I think it's a brilliant piece of interface design, myself, but you don't have to use it.
Yes, but changing tools back and forth requires extra clicks... Why is it that I almost never changed tools in 8.5.3 and I was able to do all these things (comfortably) without the Smart Tool? Keni
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