All this technical talk is really hilarious. Sorry, I don't trust numbers, I trust my EARS. I've been a musician long enough to know when something sounds different than something else. There IS a difference - AT TIMES - between one DAW and another. It's a fact. I've experienced it. Throw all the "numbers" and technical specs that you want, but there's a difference.

pppfffeh...

I'm still going back to knotted rope..it records better....

What I do, when I want to get a really killer mix is this. I wait for a full moon, then I go into the woods naked, with a rabbit's paw and some crushed hemlock. I bury them by the side of a babbling brook and do the Mixing Dance Of The Ancient Inca Kings. Then I come home and BAM, world class mix right there.

mmmm...what was that saying again?

 A poor craftsman always blames his tools?

That's not part of the ritual, that's lunch.

John T, sarcasm doesn't make a good argument at all - just so you know. I never said that the difference will destroy your mix (or, make it great) - what I said is that there IS a difference. Not so much of a difference that I'd change from one to another, but there's a difference (at least between Sonar HS6XL and Cubase LE).

MelodicJimmy


John T, sarcasm doesn't make a good argument at all - just so you know. I never said that the difference will destroy your mix (or, make it great) - what I said is that there IS a difference. Not so much of a difference that I'd change from one to another, but there's a difference (at least between Sonar HS6XL and Cubase LE).

No need to get touchy. I don't think he was dissagreeing with you necessarily. In fact, I'm pretty sure he said, "I'm with you".
 
No. You were right he was totally being sarcastic. Personally, I do think it's good to step away from numbers. Who cares if a mix "looks" good. If it sounds like garbage no one is going to want to listen to it.

John, first of all, no one is trying to "move" you. At least I'm not. I don't really care one way or the other if you hear a difference between DAW's. The problem with these "tests" is that they'd literally have to test EVERY SINGLE DAW and every single version, update, etc that's ever been in existence. Did they perform texts between HS6XL and Cubase LE?

In any case, I wasn't aiming to be sarcastic, I was grasping for satire. Maybe I did it poorly. But my point was simply this: the people who claim they can hear a difference seem to universally fall back on anti-science arguments. MelodicJimmy's was the most blatant, but they're all of the same stripe. So my joke, weak as it may be, was simply to point out that you might as well go and bury some hemlock in the woods; it's pure magical thinking voodoo nonsense. I can't take it seriously, and I don't apologise for that.

John, I'll tell you a little story: A while back, I was playing in a Jazz trio with this bass player who was all about music theory. Now, I know music theory very well and apply it regularly to my music, but sometimes you have to use your ears INSTEAD of what "should" be correct. Anyway, one time, we were playing this tune by Charlie Parker ("Anthropology") and, in the B section, the chords go: D7/ G7/ C7/ F7 I suggested that he put minor 7 chords before each dominant chord, making ii-V progressions through the section (a common practice on this tune and others). Problem is, for him, there was an F# as the first note over the A-7. His reaction? "But, you can't do that - that makes a major 13th over a MINOR 7TH CHORD!" You are that guy, John. Funny thing is - his name was John, too. :)

Jimmy: that point has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I mean, I'm really not that guy. I like Wolf Eyes. Have you ever heard Wolf Eyes? Check these dues out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg30jDBlrtE

John, yes, it does. It is relevant because the guy I was talking about wasn't using his ears, he was trying to rely on his intellect. When something is, it is. Just because some people did a test on some DAW's doesn't mean that's the definitive answer. Like I said, they'd have to test every single DAW to make the conclusion that, "they ALL sound the same."

I already told you how extensive the testing is in this, If you can't be bothered looking into that, that's your choice, but don't expect those of us who have to take you seriously.

MelodicJimmy


Just because some people did a test on some DAW's doesn't mean that's the definitive answer. Like I said, they'd have to test every single DAW to make the conclusion that, "they ALL sound the same."

I'm a bit lost there Jimmy. Why would we have to test every single DAW? I mean, I don't have every one, but I would gladly continue my testing on all the ones I do have. I figured, keeping PT out of the scheme of things....Sonar, Reaper and Studio One would be good choices. I did happen to try the same test with Cubase, Nuendo, Pro Tools, Audacity, Logic and Adobe Audition. I didn't post my results on those because...you guessed it, they all sounded identical to what I had posted already.
 
Granted, I'm not saying that some people aren't legit in their claim. I can't hear as they do for me to say for sure. But on my end, whatever I put into a DAW as the source is what gets recorded and what gets exported. I made sure not to use super good front end stuff or a killer soundcard that might have something to do with coloration due to converters or whatever. See, that's not the point we're out to prove. The point is...are the DAWS coloring anything? In my opinion, and this is using my ears, not looking at any graphs or relying on science....I hear no proof of anything sounding even remotely different other than my human errors or the ways I may have executed chords and licks. The tones are all the same...my playing is what changes as unfortunately, I'm not one of those players that can play exactly the same thing twice let alone three times. LOL!
 
But all of these DAWs were the most current and up to date versions. I just plugged in, recorded, exported and I'm sure you've heard what I came up with. I would think that if a DAW was drastically mudding something up or altering the sound in any way, that we would have heard it pretty blatantly in my tests, don't you think? I hear the same clear highs...I hear the same exact mid range that I can copy with my mouth (try singing the mid-range you hear) and the lows are exactly the same. None of the files "whoomfs" with low end or picks up any mud whatsoever. I purposely nailed some of those chords hard to see if it would whoomf out or mud up. But alas, none of that happened.
 
Again, I'm not dismissing that you and others are hearing something. What that something is...I have no idea because none of the DAW's I've tested give me that impression at all. Not even a little bit, or I'd be the first to jump on the train with you and the others and try to prove it's correct. Maybe it's a front-end deal somewhere...maybe a DAW is doubling back over itself on an output or something or being sent to a bus on a mixing console for hybridding that it shouldn't be?
 
Now THAT I HAVE had happen. My defaults on my DAW outputs are sent to a mixing console using the first output (1/2) in whatever card I'm using at all times. When I fired up Reaper to test it the other day using my good set-up, it defaulted to 5/6 which sent it to 5/6 on my console.....which had a chorus effect on those two tracks for something I was doing. At first I was alarmed because Reaper definitely sounded "different" than everything else. LOL!!!! But in 5 seconds, I knew the wrong output was selected on my end and when I changed to 1/2 where it should have been, Reaper sounded like all the others. I tried this same test with PT and my MAC using an Apogee and a Lynx....same exact sound as the old, less than consumer Realtek. Go figure. Now mind you, all tests were at 16/44...maybe the DAW's handle higher bit and sample rates differently or something? I can't answer that...but at 16/44, no matter what DAW I test on, the stuff I played through them all sounded the same during the print as well as after they had been exported.
 
I really don't know how else I can test this from a "human" standpoint that isn't so scientific. I basically did what you said man....I used my ears...and my ears told me "well, they may hear something on their end, but I sure can't hear a difference on mine."
 
-Danny