hockeyjx
 
To beat the dead horse way past the glue in a gluttony of unpleasant exchanges, ultimately hoping that whoever is involved will eventually acquiesce. When really, long term, nothing is gained.
 

Well said.

I was reading the discussion and conclusions taken that think Cakewalk closed because of the Sonar. Not Cakewalk has actually closed its operations indefinitely in the transition period that Gibson is going through (ie are at great risk and this has nothing to do with Cake).
 
Gibson, a closed-capital company, will need to refinance the debt of 520
Million dollars. Today the company has a debt of securities of US $375 million due on August 1, 2018. An additional US $145 million in bank debt with initial maturity of June 23, 2018. I read it today and it's just facts.
 
Closing Factory/Factory opening
Gibson set out to change one of its three factories to a more appropriate place with a new reality of the company. The Memphis factory in the U.S. will go to a smaller location and plan to sell the entire operation of the site.
 
The company will remain in the current building between the next 18 to 24 months and it is estimated that the value of the sale of the operation rotates around $17 million of dollars.
 
Gibson confirmed yesterday that he will not participate in the Namm 2018. That's right--
The case is very serious, the Gibson is cutting all current costs and needs to refinance its debt as stated above, and change its entire operation strategy. The focus of the company wants to direct its efforts enough on electronic products. Interfaces, headphones, monitors, among other things. This explains why Cakewalk has not yet been sold, in fact they shut down the company's activities indefinitely and still do not know what they will do with it. Probably either going to sell the Cake or change their strategy, I believe they end up selling yet in 2018 1 instead they shut down all operations, they need to urgently settle the debt issue.
 
The sales of Gibson instruments mostly fall immensely, so Gibson had the "brilliant idea" of spending his money buying several companies, she was unable to define her market strategy within her investments and failed to prevent Bleeding from the fall of the instruments. The result is that she's losing control of everything, now she's had to make some tough decisions if she doesn't want to go down for good.
 
So forget conspiracy theories. Cakewalk is closed for Gibson's problems and not on account of bugs. If bugs were something that prevented DAW sales, ProTools wouldn't even sell. Because in every project I do, I have bugs, very different from the Platinum Sonar. My latest project is a 28 track single with many plugins and samples on KONTATK.
 
Anyway, I also believe that some important changes, in case Cake manages to get out of this situation would be important.
 
Price and updates: Need a really cheap version or free not only for Mac as for PC, lost a lot of space for Reaper because of it.
 
Really the Cake took a long time to launch the MAC version (although I don't use Apple products but I'm not dumb or blind, the company needs to get out of the comfort zone).
 
There are actually some structures to be changed and updated in the DAW, such as the way the loops are made, in this regard the FL Studio is far ahead in the construction of loops, there are some strange bugs that loop the sonar to change the BPMs , this is a change of structure as well as the compatability with MIDI controllers. It has no updated preset of new Midi controllers like Artura Keylab Essential for example (which I bought recenemente) to use them to control the DAW. Very different from FL Studio and Live that are always up to date. Another issue that annoys me is that sometimes the loading time to open the program changes, this slightly irritates the scanning of plugins could be more like the FL Studio that works without harming what you are doing and the DAW opens very quickly. Aside from those issues I've highlighted, Sonar is wonderful for me.
 
So that's it, I made this text about my vision of what happened to the company, putting facts on the table, without creating crazy theories.

Never mind. good luck guys no matter which DAW you use.

julianochrisway
I was reading the discussion and conclusions taken that think Cakewalk closed because of the Sonar. Not Cakewalk has actually closed its operations indefinitely in the transition period that Gibson is going through (ie are at great risk and this has nothing to do with Cake).
 Gibson, a closed-capital company, will need to refinance the debt of 520
Million dollars. Today the company has a debt of securities of US $375 million due on August 1, 2018. An additional US $145 million in bank debt with initial maturity of June 23, 2018. I read it today and it's just facts.
 Closing Factory/Factory opening
Gibson set out to change one of its three factories to a more appropriate place with a new reality of the company. The Memphis factory in the U.S. will go to a smaller location and plan to sell the entire operation of the site.
 The company will remain in the current building between the next 18 to 24 months and it is estimated that the value of the sale of the operation rotates around $17 million of dollars.
 Gibson confirmed yesterday that he will not participate in the Namm 2018. That's right--
The case is very serious, the Gibson is cutting all current costs and needs to refinance its debt as stated above, and change its entire operation strategy. The focus of the company wants to direct its efforts enough on electronic products. Interfaces, headphones, monitors, among other things. This explains why Cakewalk has not yet been sold, in fact they shut down the company's activities indefinitely and still do not know what they will do with it. Probably either going to sell the Cake or change their strategy, I believe they end up selling yet in 2018 1 instead they shut down all operations, they need to urgently settle the debt issue.
 The sales of Gibson instruments mostly fall immensely, so Gibson had the "brilliant idea" of spending his money buying several companies, she was unable to define her market strategy within her investments and failed to prevent Bleeding from the fall of the instruments. The result is that she's losing control of everything, now she's had to make some tough decisions if she doesn't want to go down for good.
 So forget conspiracy theories. Cakewalk is closed for Gibson's problems and not on account of bugs. If bugs were something that prevented DAW sales, ProTools wouldn't even sell. Because in every project I do, I have bugs, very different from the Platinum Sonar. My latest project is a 28 track single with many plugins and samples on KONTATK.
 Anyway, I also believe that some important changes, in case Cake manages to get out of this situation would be important.
 Price and updates: Need a really cheap version or free not only for Mac as for PC, lost a lot of space for Reaper because of it.
 Really the Cake took a long time to launch the MAC version (although I don't use Apple products but I'm not dumb or blind, the company needs to get out of the comfort zone).
 There are actually some structures to be changed and updated in the DAW, such as the way the loops are made, in this regard the FL Studio is far ahead in the construction of loops, there are some strange bugs that loop the sonar to change the BPMs , this is a change of structure as well as the compatability with MIDI controllers. It has no updated preset of new Midi controllers like Artura Keylab Essential for example (which I bought recenemente) to use them to control the DAW. Very different from FL Studio and Live that are always up to date. Another issue that annoys me is that sometimes the loading time to open the program changes, this slightly irritates the scanning of plugins could be more like the FL Studio that works without harming what you are doing and the DAW opens very quickly. Aside from those issues I've highlighted, Sonar is wonderful for me.
 So that's it, I made this text about my vision of what happened to the company, putting facts on the table, without creating crazy theories.

1) Cakewalk didn't make any money. It lost money.
2) Mac version was abandoned and they just released a dogppile version so they could just say they kept their promises. It was a ridiculous idea from the start, would have been nice to have... But really really... Crazy. Costs are too high to develop for an unprofitable company. Not sure it could compete with logic either. Other DAW's also had Linux.
3) Sonar artist is the cutdown version. Granted not on Mac.
4) You should really read the Reddit thread I posted.

Regardless of Gibson's problems (which is a fair point) if Cakewalk was in a better place it would have been much easier to sell. At present it's unlikely, and regardless all the staff has left.

(FFS posting this again because spam scanner keeps deleting).

CakeAlexSHere


1) Cakewalk didn't make any money. It lost money.
2) Mac version was abandoned and they just released a dogppile version so they could just say they kept their promises. It was a ridiculous idea from the start, would have been nice to have... But really really... Crazy. Costs are too high to develop for an unprofitable company. Not sure it could compete with logic either. Other DAW's also had Linux.
3) Sonar artist is the cutdown version. Granted not on Mac.
4) You should really read the Reddit thread I posted.

Regardless of Gibson's problems (which is a fair point) if Cakewalk was in a better place it would have been much easier to sell. At present it's unlikely, and regardless all the staff has left.

(FFS posting this again because spam scanner keeps deleting).

1) You claim that Cakewalk did not earn money. Unfortunately I can not answer for them, I do not work at Cakewalk I just posted facts about the serious situation of the Gibson that acquired the company. And it's going to get worse. So what I can say is that the situation goes far beyond what people imagine. This is not about: Cakewalk gave Gibson a lot of work and that's why Gibson closed the company. If it comes to the whole Gibson is in high debts, tried to solve the problem by changing strategies acquiring several electronics companies, but has not yet had time to switch to its new market strategy. In other words, she didn't know how to lead and change even the vision inside Cakewalk.
 
2) on the MAC version, as said took a long time and "died on the beach" (it is a saying that we use here in Brazil) took absurdly to launch and in the end it was too late. If I had come there at the time of Sonar 8.5 The story would have been different but we'll never know, I don't like to assert things without having facts to prove it.
 
3) Sonar Artist has a cost of 99 dollars. When the Reaper arrived, when the evaluation time was up you could still use it for free if you wanted (at this time I saw hundreds of people migrating from Sonar to Reaper) in addition and you were asked to pay 60 dollars for personal use and $225 in the commercial license the price difference is Absurd. Yes that I can say it was a big rock in the shoe of the Cake, and I'm just talking about the Reaper the other contestants didn't forgive as I said in my post. Even because the Reaper is an excellent Daw. In the vote by users of this year Reaper was in 6 place of 20 places the Sonar was ninth. See
 
The [link=http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/tech/the-20-best-daw-software-apps-in-the-world-today-238905]http://www.musicradar.com...the-world-today-238905 link[/link]
 
4) Again you are making assumptions. We don't know the fate of Cake yet. Regardless whether they were in a good situation or not, they have a powerful tool in hands and many innovations. If it lasted more than 30 years, it wasn't just doing **** all this time.
 

I read the Reddit thread as well and found it interesting.. but you cant seriously be quoting that as a "source" ?
There was no name attached to it. That could be Bert from McDonald drive thru messing with people.
 
Unless you count "former cakewalk" as a reliable source.

chuckebaby
I read the Reddit thread as well and found it interesting.. but you cant seriously be quoting that as a "source" ?
There was no name attached to it. That could be Bert from McDonald drive thru messing with people.
 
Unless you count "former cakewalk" as a reliable source.

Fair point, but previous Gibson employees appeared to be recognising him on that thread and everything seems to add up, people can read the thread and decide for themselves.

You could also argue that this employees viewpoint was tainted (just saying this to provide a balanced viewpoint).

We know that Cakewalk was not in profit under Roland... and Sonar would still continue to be developed right now (sold) if in profit and we wouldn't be where we are. A lot of the staff would still be here and customers would not be disappearing to other DAWs.

CakeAlexSHere
We know that Cakewalk was not in profit under Roland...

One thing to bear in mind here, that many SME's gearing themselves up to be sold tend to show a loss in profits both before and after the sale. This is often due to the company's focus moving off sales to preparing themselves to be sold, followed by the usual restructuring that happens after the new company takes over.
 
I'm not saying this is the full story, but it would certainly contribute to the drop in profits.

sharke
 
The trouble with that advice Noel is that it doesn't give anyone any more information by which they can make a rational decision on whether or not to go with a new DAW. People are naturally worried that if for some reason they have to reinstall Sonar in the future, it might happen at a time after which the reactivation servers have been shut down. Ultimately the nightmare scenario would be not being able to load projects and losing work. It doesn't matter how much we're reassured that this will never happen, or how much we're assured that we'll receive some kind of offline key,  I think everyone's aware that the current situation is one in which anything could happen at any minute on the whim of Gibson. 

 
Sharke I have a lot of respect for you (as you know I hope based on our past communications) but you are reacting emotionally rather than rationally to this. We clearly said that as and when there was more information it would be presented. Transitioning a company can take a fairly LONG time - it doesn't happen overnight. The fact that there was a transition team of a few people (myself included) obviously means Gibson wants to do something to "transition" the company. So why not wait until such event happens and make up your mind based on facts instead of speculation? I've already said publicly that none of what you indicate as the nightmare scenario would happen since we've already planned for such an escrow situation. Whether I am there or not users wouldn't be left hanging like that. Thats the least we could do to take care of people but I'm sure it will never get to that.
 
>>Your last paragraph is certainly interesting and is going to get a lot of people talking. Does Noel know something? Is there something on the cards?
If course there is something on the cards - why would there be a transition team if not? But nobody can predict the future including Gibson so there isn't anything to share about timelines or events till it happens.
Crossgrade offers happen all the time and of course companies are going to jump on an event like this. The timing was poor I'll admit but there wasn't anything we could do to change the past.
 
>>Regarding bugs, I cannot shake off my hunch that something really weird happens to Sonar projects the older and larger they get.
That hunch is incorrect. Most of your bugs were corruption related and caused by weird interactions with plugins. Although large projects can expose such bugs more since more memory is used by the app but its highly unlikely to be related to the actual size of the project. I personally investigated some of them and could never get them to happen. Unfortunately looking through a million lines of code to speculatively fix problems can be a huge time sink. We definitely did put in a lot of time to find them and indeed found and fixed many issues you personally reported. As you say even you could barely repro them yourself - so now imagine what it takes for a developer to try and fix it with no recipe and just using imagination!
I can assure you however that EVERY piece of software I have actively used has mysterious issues like that - some on a much larger scale. And I include Music production software - I wont name names but I've had some bizarre issues in all the Daws I used for testing our plugins. Its all dependent on how you use the app and your workflow whether you see them or not. If everyone saw them they would have been fixed a long time ago.
 
And to the point Chuckie made about being disappointed that updated info was provided since the announcement: I'm really sorry about that but as much as I believe in transparency, we don't own Cakewalk personally so we have to abide by the process Gibson is following. Anyone who has been through something like this would know that there is a legal process involved. The few remaining folks at Cakewalk who are helping are not even fully briefed on all the details for confidentiality reasons so there isn't much new to share right now.

Please sign the petition against Gibson to save SONAR Cakewalk.
https://www.change.org/p/...ampaign=share_petition

Please sign the petition against Gibson to save SONAR Cakewalk.
https://www.change.org/p/...ampaign=share_petition