chrisharbin


Me trying to be clever (embarrassed)

point n shoot. I saw it somewhere when I was reading reviews and thought I'd try and be "smart"

I know, I'll get my coat.............

Keep yer coat Chris.  Get off that catnip stuff though

10ten-  "I am not willing to give Cake a break on their screwups and you are..."


I think 10ten has nailed the fundamental difference between the people who are relatively happy with X1 and people like himself.  No judgement.  No right, no wrong.  

ba_midi

timidi


Hey, you guys seen the moon tonight?? Take a look. gorgeous!!.

I agree - take a look at the moon.
Hey you guys - anyone seen any adults around tonight? 

It's 9:30 am here, and it was absolutely gorgeous driving into work this morning. Huge, full, and ever so slighly yellow.
It was a bit foggy here, and seeing it behind the trees was especially eerie - I half expected to see Vincent Price in the 7am .gloom

chrisharbin


Me trying to be clever (embarrassed)

point n shoot. I saw it somewhere when I was reading reviews and thought I'd try and be "smart"

I know, I'll get my coat.............

I think this thread could have used a few cat pix!!  

ba_midi

nighthadfallen


10ten-  "I am not willing to give Cake a break on their screwups and you are..."


I think 10ten has nailed the fundamental difference between the people who are relatively happy with X1 and people like himself.  No judgement.  No right, no wrong.  

I certainly don't always agree with 10Ten and have had my share of 'debates' with him, and I am not fond of his style of communicating -- but as I am reminded often:
 
"Don't lose the message because you don't like the messenger."
That being said, I do think people are tired in general of constantly having products in an "almost" condition.
 
A little story (possibly with some levity):
 
Last year I bought a clothing chest for my bedroom (needed the extra storage).   2 friends helped me put it together - basically just a bunch of screws going into the right places.
When we were done and it worked fine, I said:
 
"Wow so cool - -  I don't have to go on the Internet to update it!"
 
I just think everyone really is tired of the software shuffle.  Imagine treating your car or your refrigerator the same way?  "I think they'll get a patch out soon and it might work better then."
 
Hmmm.... 

ba_midi,
 
I agree with your observation of falling prey to the software shuffle.  However, if I gave up my perfectly good frig with the promise of a better appliance and when it is delivered the water dispenser works sometimes, there is a crack in one of the food trays, it doesn't properly dispense ice,  the light flickers when you open the door, the seal does not perfectly fit around the door, the fan in back makes alot of noise, etc. and I can't get my money back,  I think that is a problem.  A bigger problem using this example is when the manufacturer says "we are aware there may be some issues with your new appliance, we will have a repair person out sometime in the next couple of months although we can't say when or what we are going to fix".
 
I don't understand when people say "that's ok Cakewalk, we understand, don't be mad at us, take your time to get it right".  Great product. great people, poor release, 
 
 

Vastman


The moon is beautiful tonight.  And, ba midi... thanks for the heads up on the new rapture sounds.  Got them tonight and they are splendid!

Glad you like them. I do as well.  One of the few soundsets that actually has a lot of fresh stuff, IMHO.
 
And it doesn't smell like a rat! ;)
 
 

 
But I do think if someone is going to start a thread with such a negative, suspicious, assuming title as "I Smell A Rat" that it opens it up to all kinds of rat food and rat sh*t filling it up ;)
 
 
 
 
  And I am glad everything is rosy for you Billy, and one day the forum will be all sunshine and rainbows.

I still  stand by my observation that the number of "comments" with no documentation and the threats to embrace another DAW seem out of proportion .

Negative? SO are the piling on sock puppet posts.

Suspicious? Comments without details, documentation, and validity raise suspicions.

Look at the vitriol that filled this thread .

Have a nice day

Too Sensible

ba_midi

nighthadfallen


10ten-  "I am not willing to give Cake a break on their screwups and you are..."


I think 10ten has nailed the fundamental difference between the people who are relatively happy with X1 and people like himself.  No judgement.  No right, no wrong.  

I certainly don't always agree with 10Ten and have had my share of 'debates' with him, and I am not fond of his style of communicating -- but as I am reminded often:
 
"Don't lose the message because you don't like the messenger."
That being said, I do think people are tired in general of constantly having products in an "almost" condition.
 
A little story (possibly with some levity):
 
Last year I bought a clothing chest for my bedroom (needed the extra storage).   2 friends helped me put it together - basically just a bunch of screws going into the right places.
When we were done and it worked fine, I said:
 
"Wow so cool - -  I don't have to go on the Internet to update it!"
 
I just think everyone really is tired of the software shuffle.  Imagine treating your car or your refrigerator the same way?  "I think they'll get a patch out soon and it might work better then."
 
Hmmm.... 

ba_midi,
 
I agree with your observation of falling prey to the software shuffle.  However, if I gave up my perfectly good frig with the promise of a better appliance and when it is delivered the water dispenser works sometimes, there is a crack in one of the food trays, it doesn't properly dispense ice,  the light flickers when you open the door, the seal does not perfectly fit around the door, the fan in back makes alot of noise, etc. and I can't get my money back,  I think that is a problem.  A bigger problem using this example is when the manufacturer says "we are aware there may be some issues with your new appliance, we will have a repair person out sometime in the next couple of months although we can't say when or what we are going to fix".
 
I don't understand when people say "that's ok Cakewalk, we understand, don't be mad at us, take your time to get it right".  Great product. great people, poor release, 
 
 

I must say I'm a little confused as to how and why people seem to attach themselves to a company making software almost as if it's their favorite sport team they are rooting for.   I certainly am a "supporter" of Cakewalk for the last 7 years by buying there products every year (not just Sonar) and giving them feedback and offering help to the myriad of users who come to their forums seeking it (and I do so willingly - and freely).
 
But I am not comfortable with an almost fanatical approach to it by some (not all).   It's just a tool we use to make music.  It's made by a company that, aside from wanting to make the products, benefits financially from marketing their products to us.
 
It seems software is the only part of the commercial products world that gets such amazing leeway to do almost anything without much recourse available to the buying public.
 
Of course most would want to "believe" in the "good will and good faith" of the people in the company because musicians use their tools with sensitivity and depth.  
 
But I think if one is honest with oneself and asks something like this:
 
"If Cakewalk (or any company) needed to make a certain quarterly financial goal and knew the product had real and serious bugs but still released it, who is the real beneficiary of such an action"?
 
One could say the user will pay a LOT more than just the price or upgrade price because of such bugs.  One could say the hours of struggling to use the product as one might expect to is part of the "cost" too - when it doesn't work as expected.
 
I'm not a Cakewalk Basher and most here know that.  I'm also not a so-called "fanboi" either.   I give the company and its people my support as a "customer" and have been a loyal one for 7 years.   My history proves that.
But I'm not a share holder in the company either.  MY only benefit comes when their product works as expected, give or take a few non-serious bugs.
 
So all I really am saying is that I agree with your comments as well, and I just wish we could convince each other (forum users) to chill out and be more civil, and to let CW know what's working and what's not, and do so without all the typical human disrespect and lack of consideration that goes on so often here and all over the planet.
 
I doubt that will happen, of course.   It seems the sport of pissing contests and chest beating and attitudinal interaction is more rewarding to some than decency.

 

One comment I made was offering the scenario of a real first timer barreling up into these forums and being confused and maybe turned off(although for the life of me , I can't imagine why.)

I am not saying that those fresh faces coming here to gather information for a potential purchase couldnt discern for themselves, although  I have read enough "green " posts on GS, KVR, HC, and the like to know otherwise.

Your comments  don't bother me at all . Billy, . As far as assuming ( and I know the old saying about what assuming makes )the motives behind the posts I questioned, some may be out of frustration and following the lemming mentality, but when I read a thought out post with a description of the issue EVEN though its followed by X1 sucks, I give it more weight  than just X1 sucks.

Anyway , the landscape here WILL change, whether for better or worse, the crowd will thin, the dust will settle, and in the end every man jack (and woman) of us will do what we need to do in regards to owning this or that DAW  to satisfy ourselves  musically, emotionally, and monetarily .

Thank you for your comments.

ba_midi

musicman100


One comment I made was offering the scenario of a real first timer barreling up into these forums and being confused and maybe turned off(although for the life of me , I can't imagine why.)

I am not saying that those fresh faces coming here to gather information for a potential purchase couldnt discern for themselves, although  I have read enough "green " posts on GS, KVR, HC, and the like to know otherwise.

Your comments  don't bother me at all . Billy, . As far as assuming ( and I know the old saying about what assuming makes )the motives behind the posts I questioned, some may be out of frustration and following the lemming mentality, but when I read a thought out post with a description of the issue EVEN though its followed by X1 sucks, I give it more weight  than just X1 sucks.

Anyway , the landscape here WILL change, whether for better or worse, the crowd will thin, the dust will settle, and in the end every man jack (and woman) of us will do what we need to do in regards to owning this or that DAW  to satisfy ourselves  musically, emotionally, and monetarily .

Thank you for your comments.

Joe, I must say that I, too, get quite frustrated when I read some of the posts that seem so poorly worded, poorly thought out, bashing, etc, etc.   I'm right there with you in that regard.
 
I guess I just try not to let it get to me TOO much.  And from my own experience I know it's easy to stoke the fire - even when what I might say is thought out.   Some people simply love to argue, some people simply need attention, and some people might even be mentally ill for all I know.
 
But this, to me, is all the more reason to bring a tone of civility to this forum (and elsewhere).   And, let's face it - there REALLY are some EXCEPTIONALLY bright people on this forum.   There is an abundance of incredible knowledge and lots who are willing to share it freely.  
 
That's a good deal, I think.
 
I also allow for the 'newbies' to adjust.  We were all newbies once.  Some act like children, and children need adult mentoring usually.   I think those of us who have a history with the products, company, and staff of Cakewalk can do lots of good in that regard. 
 
I certainly have had my moments of craziness in life.  And I'm grateful to those who showed me the way and teach me to do better, to become better.   It's always a struggle.  Us humans are fragile, but we also have incredible ability to evolve/learn/grow, etc.
 
If anyone feels this forum, its users, the product(s) matter - then I suggest to all, including myself, that we do better at how we go about interacting.  It's very doable, albeit not easy.
 
With regard to the actual events that trigger us (such as the bashing posts or over-the-top posts), I also suggest taking a breath.  Not letting them get to us so easily.  And respond with clarity and sanity.
 
One way to fight stupidity is to give it a good dose of intelligence.  It may not always get an immediate response, but in the long run it serves some good .... I think.
 
Be well and thanks for your comments too!
 
 

Billy, nice to see a touch of sanity in this thread after several er.... distractions.

Part of the problem now for the short term seems to be a user is either seen as a 'hater' or a 'fanboi'. No-one is apparently allowed in the middle ground. I think the improved/ruined (depending on your viewpoint) GUI has not helped particularly because not only is there the inevitable bugs to deal with but a lot of things have changed as well, location, look, methods, etc leading to all sorts of 'cry wolf' or should that be 'cry bug' threads.

As you know I'm one of the lucky ones that is generally getting on pretty well with X1 but I've still found and reported my fair share of CW confirmed bugs, around 10 at last count. That's just the new ones not to mention some of the old ones. I've even found a fix to one that used to bug me regarding resizing tracks with the MCU cursor keys. Each user has different needs and methods and as you know from another thread there's envelope bugs that are major issues for you and I'd probably never have noticed. I'm sure there's some that are going to be vice versa as well.

I think the main problem with the forum at the moment, especially for newcomers is it's so full of BS posts from both 'sides', that real info, fixes, workrounds, and tips. etc  that attracted me to the forum in the first place are becoming increasingly hard to filter out from the 'noise'.

Nevermind, I expect in a few months it'll have all calmed down........... or imploded in on itself. 

I think Sonar X1 is great..... OK - alright - I haven't really got it working properly (I see the SoundBlaster AWE 32 sound card isn't good enough nowadays :)... but it will be great right?

I am not fanatical about any software, Fender USA  Stratocasters and Teles, probably. I did post more than once that although I do not have major issues with X1a I still go back to 853 because I know where everthing is right off the bat.
 
I have also posted about how I long for "user customization" to return to Sonar. Not just colors, but the way it used to be customizable. That probably will only happened to a certain extent I am sorry to say (my opinion only of course)
 
Further, Some posters just "get under my skin". That will never change.
Hopefully I can learn to ignore the folks in question. I do try. May not seem like it, by I do.
 
I also have zero tolerance for the "web based Tough guys". Just the way I am.
 
I truly believe CW understands that many are really unhappy. Reposting the same crap over and over and over andover andover again (whoops, got carried away) is just plain stupid. Especially if you invade positive threads to post the same crap.
CW gets it. Are you kidding? With all the crap that's been flying their way they get it.
So now we must wait and see what they do about it.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
 
Just my 89 cents

10Ten

stratman70


I am not fanatical about any software, Fender USA  Stratocasters and Teles, probably. I did post more than once that although I do not have major issues with X1a I still go back to 853 because I know where everthing is right off the bat.

I have also posted about how I long for "user customization" to return to Sonar. Not just colors, but the way it used to be customizable. That probably will only happened to a certain extent I am sorry to say (my opinion only of course)

Further, Some posters just "get under my skin". That will never change.
Hopefully I can learn to ignore the folks in question. I do try. May not seem like it, by I do.

I also have zero tolerance for the "web based Tough guys". Just the way I am.

I truly believe CW understands that many are really unhappy. Reposting the same crap over and over and over andover andover again (whoops, got carried away) is just plain stupid. Especially if you invade positive threads to post the same crap.
CW gets it. Are you kidding? With all the crap that's been flying their way they get it.
So now we must wait and see what they do about it.
Does that make any sense to anyone?

Just my 89 cents

Nope. Cake is thinking that all of this will quiet down in a month or so. It is our job to remind them that X1 sucks because no one else will.

Ha ha, are you serious man? I'm just flabbergasted about some of the stuff you write. How do you know this? Do you work there? Or are you just really, really looking for a fight with Cakewalk?

10Ten

ProjectM

10Ten

stratman70


I am not fanatical about any software, Fender USA  Stratocasters and Teles, probably. I did post more than once that although I do not have major issues with X1a I still go back to 853 because I know where everthing is right off the bat.

I have also posted about how I long for "user customization" to return to Sonar. Not just colors, but the way it used to be customizable. That probably will only happened to a certain extent I am sorry to say (my opinion only of course)

Further, Some posters just "get under my skin". That will never change.
Hopefully I can learn to ignore the folks in question. I do try. May not seem like it, by I do.

I also have zero tolerance for the "web based Tough guys". Just the way I am.

I truly believe CW understands that many are really unhappy. Reposting the same crap over and over and over andover andover again (whoops, got carried away) is just plain stupid. Especially if you invade positive threads to post the same crap.
CW gets it. Are you kidding? With all the crap that's been flying their way they get it.
So now we must wait and see what they do about it.
Does that make any sense to anyone?

Just my 89 cents

Nope. Cake is thinking that all of this will quiet down in a month or so. It is our job to remind them that X1 sucks because no one else will.

Ha ha, are you serious man? I'm just flabbergasted about some of the stuff you write. How do you know this? Do you work there? Or are you just really, really looking for a fight with Cakewalk?

And I'm flabbergasted that you can't post without insulting people. 

Cakewalk didn't create X1 because they thought it was the wrong thing to do. They did it because they think it is awesome. Now they think that we just don't get it and we need to time to let it sink in. This is how things work.

Right. At it again, eh? No worries. I really don't care 10Ten and have better things to waste my time on than you. BUt, if I insulted YOu I applogize. At least I didn't go out and call people liars. And I know I haven't insulted anyone else in here. You must be forcing out the worst sides of me
 
But thanks for the explanation. That's all I wanted. Still amazing

I really hope Cakewalk wasn't rushing for 10Q's.   As a Economist/CPA (my real job), I think one of the big problems with a lot of corporate America.   Moreover, I think it backfires more than it helps.

Focusing on short term profit over long term growth and customer satisifcation just results in less futuer revenue, and often times, no company.

In fact it could definitely be argued that most of the sub-prime housing fiasco is because of people focusing on short term gains and bonuses.