AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 20:32:33
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Larry Jones
I'm getting mildly offended by the attitudes of some posters in this thread the past couple of days. There are people who like the new sales model and people who don't, or like me have some reservations. Those who like the new system are frequently addressing the rest of us as if we simply don't understand it -- we are too lazy to read the FAQ or too stupid to "get it." I urge you (it's not all of you, but you know who you are) to get over it.
Please, you nice people who are simply trying to explain the new system in neutral terms -- you know I'm not talking to you.
dont be offended, no one cursed off your mother.
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Splat 
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 20:49:57
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Earwax
C'mon Alex. I really don't understand why you are willing to participate in 36 pages of discussion about pricing and new features/content, but you're NOT willing to devote a few pages to core product fixes and improvements, particularly those improvements based on user requests. And no, I am not talking about adding new content or features. I'm talking about fixes and improvements to the core product. I understand your pricing structure, and why it makes sense. I'm not arguing that. I don't understand why you don't understand that knowing what fixes and improvements have been made to the core product would be important to users.
And yeah, I did read everything Jsaras typed.
You flatter me :) If I actually worked for Cakewalk I would give you a definitive answer  I'm just the guy who has documented the X3E bugs (and I don't fix 'em). Welcoming the clean slate right now, I'm afraid the past is now the past (hopefully), and so onto the new model which maybe should be able to handle such a request. I would like an X3F myself however I can understand this to be a unrealistic proposition, however with this new Sonar it may well be realistic as it is (may be) perpetual. Here we go... Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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John
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:07:06
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Larry Jones
I'm getting mildly offended by the attitudes of some posters in this thread the past couple of days. There are people who like the new sales model and people who don't, or like me have some reservations. Those who like the new system are frequently addressing the rest of us as if we simply don't understand it -- we are too lazy to read the FAQ or too stupid to "get it." I urge you (it's not all of you, but you know who you are) to get over it.
Please, you nice people who are simply trying to explain the new system in neutral terms -- you know I'm not talking to you.
Sorry but I don't see your point. When some few keep saying something that is patently wrong and is confusing people we do need to repeat ourselves over and over again to get the truth out. In my view labels have meaning some good some not so good. When a poster posts that CW is going to a subscription model that is wrong and needs to be clearly stated to those that keep saying it is when it isn't. Misinformation is a bad thing. It has to be corrected when ever it pops up. Some are getting tired of having to say the truth over and over and maybe it shows. But then where are the others to come and relieve them? To help with the load? If your concerns have not been satisfied please post here now and I will do my very best to answer them.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:13:13
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i like when people say "offended" but its not really what they are. "OFFENDED" means someone personally offends you... they insult your mother, they insult your hair.... if you don't like someone's attitude, you aren't OFFENDED... you just dont like them! lol
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Larry Jones
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:24:14
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alewgro
i like when people say "offended" but its not really what they are. "OFFENDED" means someone personally offends you... they insult your mother, they insult your hair.... if you don't like someone's attitude, you aren't OFFENDED... you just dont like them! lol
Interesting viewpoint, but I'm pretty sure my usage of English is correct.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:25:12
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Larry Jones
alewgro
i like when people say "offended" but its not really what they are. "OFFENDED" means someone personally offends you... they insult your mother, they insult your hair.... if you don't like someone's attitude, you aren't OFFENDED... you just dont like them! lol
Interesting viewpoint, but I'm pretty sure my usage of English is correct.
how are YOU offended?
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Larry Jones
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:31:35
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John
If your concerns have not been satisfied please post here now and I will do my very best to answer them.
Thanks, John. The decisions I disagree with have already been made, so no need to go into it.
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Splat
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:34:06
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Offending people may actually increase sales nowadays...
#JeSuisCakewalk
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:35:23
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Larry Jones
I'm getting mildly offended by the attitudes of some posters in this thread the past couple of days. There are people who like the new sales model and people who don't, or like me have some reservations. Those who like the new system are frequently addressing the rest of us as if we simply don't understand it -- we are too lazy to read the FAQ or too stupid to "get it." I urge you (it's not all of you, but you know who you are) to get over it.
Please, you nice people who are simply trying to explain the new system in neutral terms -- you know I'm not talking to you.
I think a lot of people lose their patience after the zillionth post stating "I will never use a DAW that has a subscription where I can't own the software!! I have been using Cakewalk since the dawn of time but now I am going to switch to ReProBase!! This is all about making a big money grab and screwing the customer!!!" By and large, the reasonable people get reasonable answers. And the troll with the multiple user names - well, he deserves whatever he gets. Cross-posting and posting under multiple alts are both no-nos. But on the other hand, there's absolutely nothing wrong with people commenting about something they know nothing about. Without that, we would have no network news! On a more serious note, I think a lot of the impatience comes because this thread has bloated to the point where finding actual information is like finding a needle in a haystack because only about 20% is unique content. The rest is repetition that repeats itself over and over again in a repetitive way, repetitively.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:36:50
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alewgro
how are YOU offended?
Let's not belabor this, Adam. In my post I said that certain folks were taking the attitude that those who expressed reservations about the new sales model were too lazy to read the FAQ, or too stupid to understand. That's insulting and offensive.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:37:19
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I would love to know if in the new Sonar can you change the color of clip backgrounds in the color preferences (which they took away in Sonar X3). The inspector is not good enough.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:38:36
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/01/18 20:28:08
CakeAlexS
Offending people may actually increase sales nowadays...
#JeSuisCakewalk
Yeah? So that's what you think, you moron? Sheesh. Some people. . . . Nope, didn't see sales go up. Oh well.
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Splat
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:45:39
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That's it Craig, damn it I'm done with typing and I'm gonna start drawing cartoons!!!!
#JeSuisCakewalk
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:47:47
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Anderton
Larry Jones
I'm getting mildly offended by the attitudes of some posters in this thread the past couple of days. There are people who like the new sales model and people who don't, or like me have some reservations. Those who like the new system are frequently addressing the rest of us as if we simply don't understand it -- we are too lazy to read the FAQ or too stupid to "get it." I urge you (it's not all of you, but you know who you are) to get over it.
Please, you nice people who are simply trying to explain the new system in neutral terms -- you know I'm not talking to you.
I think a lot of people lose their patience after the zillionth post stating "I will never use a DAW that has a subscription where I can't own the software!! I have been using Cakewalk since the dawn of time but now I am going to switch to ReProBase!! This is all about making a big money grab and screwing the customer!!!" By and large, the reasonable people get reasonable answers. And the troll with the multiple user names - well, he deserves whatever he gets. Cross-posting and posting under multiple alts are both no-nos.
But on the other hand, there's absolutely nothing wrong with people commenting about something they know nothing about. Without that, we would have no network news!
On a more serious note, I think a lot of the impatience comes because this thread has bloated to the point where finding actual information is like finding a needle in a haystack because only about 20% is unique content. The rest is repetition that repeats itself over and over again in a repetitive way, repetitively.
Yes Craig, this thread has gotten completely out of hand. I've read about half of it word for word and scanned the whole thing. The same issues have been repeated many times. I don't know if or how it could have been done better, but clearly the change in sales model struck a nerve in the user base, just as the questions about subscriptions in the recent poll did. Obviously Cakewalk must go ahead with it as planned, so in a way this thread has been mainly a way for folks to vent, and for the phrase "It's not a subscription" to be burned into our psyches. EDIT: ...burned into our psyches with the heat of a thousand suns.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:54:14
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The other "greatest hits" phrase has has been "Read the FAQ." EDIT: ...burned into our psyches with the heat of a thousand suns. And apparently, that still hasn't been bright enough.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 21:56:42
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Larry Jones I don't know if or how it could have been done better.The way it works on Alpha Centauri is Centaurians learn about something first, then comment on it. Earth is a little different. Many people comment on something first, then learn about it.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:06:27
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Anderton
The way it works on Alpha Centauri is Centaurians learn about something first, then comment on it. Earth is a little different. Many people comment on something first, then learn about it.
I'm not prepared to dismiss peoples' feelings so quickly. The staff at Cakewalk had to know from the furor after the recent poll that anything that even smelled like it might have sat next to a subscription on the bus was a hot button that was bound to generate some reflexive reactions. It could have been presented better (just my opinion), but in the end most of the naysayers will settle down and accept the new way, as I will. Look on the bright side: At least it wasn't presented in an arena to a live audience.
post edited by Larry Jones - 2015/01/17 22:19:57
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Earwax
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:16:57
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Anderton
Earwax
I'm obviously not asking Cakewalk to publish a list of bugs that exist in the new version (unless, of course, they can). I'm asking them to address improvements made to core functions shared between the old and new versions of the software. I mean, c'mon! They've got to know what they improved! Right?? It is generally a company's major sales technique for anything "new and improved" to tell the public...well...what is new and improved!! I got the new. What's the improved?
The link was to a bug fix list for X3/X3a and X3b, so it covered the ones from X2 to X3. Presumably the one for Platinum will include the ones from X3 to Platinum. It seems one bug that mattered to me is you can now bounce with MIDI FX in real time as well as fast bounce mode. Also...
I CAN PASTE BUS AUTOMATION FROM ONE BUS TO ANOTHER! FROM A BUS TO A TRACK! FROM A TRACK TO A BUS!!
I guess someone was listening to Stickman
Actually it seems like automation has a bunch of clean-ups. Maybe that happened in the process of doing Mix Recall.
Thanks Craig. I think you understand what I'm asking. At least you seem to be trying to answer it! 
Pain - the absence of things hoped for, the evidence of catastrophes unforeseen.
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Earwax
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:19:05
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Kylotan
Agreed with Earwax - I appreciate that the blurb up at http://www.cakewalk.com/sonar is about the flashy new features and upgrades to reel people in, but for those of us already reeled in and flapping about on the boat (to stretch the analogy somewhat) it would be great to see a change-log of the fixes that have happened between X3e and whatever is released in a few days' time.
THIS! Well Kylotan, I guess the Bakers don't get it. Oh well...........
Pain - the absence of things hoped for, the evidence of catastrophes unforeseen.
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:22:45
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All this craziness for less than 67 cents per day for most all users. Truly amazing.
The expectation, of most, was when purchasing X3 in September 13 that X4 would be released 12 months later.
We got 6 months of updates: a six month period of program update support. and 10 additional months of general support before the new version was released. So we got 16 months for what most expected to be 12. Great deal?
So, most users purchased the usual 1 year subscription, paid in advance, just like most subscriptions.
Call it whatever you want. But do not confuse the option to pay monthly with the reality that for years we have purchased a 12 month subscription.
General definition:
"the action of making or agreeing to make an advance payment in order to receive or participate in something."
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Splat
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:23:09
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@Earwax If you had read the thread you will have seen this is exactly what the bakers intend to do. Alternatively just assume they don't get it because you don't read it.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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scook
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:25:48
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Earwax
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:29:56
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CakeAlexS
Earwax
C'mon Alex. I really don't understand why you are willing to participate in 36 pages of discussion about pricing and new features/content, but you're NOT willing to devote a few pages to core product fixes and improvements, particularly those improvements based on user requests. And no, I am not talking about adding new content or features. I'm talking about fixes and improvements to the core product. I understand your pricing structure, and why it makes sense. I'm not arguing that. I don't understand why you don't understand that knowing what fixes and improvements have been made to the core product would be important to users.
And yeah, I did read everything Jsaras typed.
You flatter me :) If I actually worked for Cakewalk I would give you a definitive answer
I'm just the guy who has documented the X3E bugs (and I don't fix 'em).
Welcoming the clean slate right now, I'm afraid the past is now the past (hopefully), and so onto the new model which maybe should be able to handle such a request. I would like an X3F myself however I can understand this to be a unrealistic proposition, however with this new Sonar it may well be realistic as it is (may be) perpetual. Here we go...
Cheers...
Alex! See, you present yourself in such an knowledgeable and authoritative manner, I mistook you for an employee! . Well, Kylotan, as an end user, gets what I'm driving at. Craig, as a consultant and developer,understands (I think) what I'm driving at. And you, as you said, would answer my questions if you had the information. So, you understand what I'm driving at. What the heck is the deal with the company??
Pain - the absence of things hoped for, the evidence of catastrophes unforeseen.
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Earwax
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:34:24
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CakeAlexS
@Earwax If you had read the thread you will have seen this is exactly what the bakers intend to do. Alternatively just assume they don't get it because you don't read it.
Just saw your answer. Okay, I'll assume they don't get because I didn't read the thread......... 
Pain - the absence of things hoped for, the evidence of catastrophes unforeseen.
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Splat
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 22:39:11
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#JeSuisCakewalk
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/17 23:50:16
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Larry Jones Look on the bright side: At least it wasn't presented in an arena to a live audience.First thing I've read tonight that made me laugh out loud, so thanks for that! BTW I'm not dismissing their feelings - I have strikingly similar feelings about the Adobe model, as I've made abundantly clear in multiple media prior to my joining Gibson. And, I put my money where my mouth is. I did two books on Adobe software that got me decent five figures each, but I'm pretty sure I'll never be asked again I just have a lower tolerance for people who make evaluations not based on the merits of a situation, but on pre-conceived notions about that situation. At its most extreme, it's the kind of mindset where racism flourishes. I feel it's best to be open-minded, do some research, draw some conclusions, and then comment but I need to remind myself more often that not everyone subscribes (couldn't resist) to that philosophy.
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azslow3
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 04:36:08
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I have finally understood it! it is simply thread for trolls and spam ;) Why I think so: 1) CW has not provided a way for everyone to get/test new version or even the list of changes (which they have promised to provide later). So, while some people can already just use new version, other have nothing else to do as spamming about it (between sessions of using some previous version). 2) CW has described "old schema + new possibility" of the payment model as "completely new better schema", injecting the word "membership" and asking with word "subscription" a month ago. And I must admit till particular person does not go throw all details, he/she has no way to understand that commonality between what CW has now and "subscription" is the same as between " renting" and " buy in credit, with possibility to cancel any time and return the product". That creates two classes of trolls: "CW is evil" and "CW is holly grail", which can spam to death each other... How many paged we manage till SONAR15 is finally released?
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Royal Yaksman
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 04:54:39
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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
All this craziness for less than 67 cents per day for most all users. Truly amazing.
Don't be coming at this from a place of common sense?!! I mean, what's next? A logical conclusion? Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!!!
Royal Yaksman HP Phoenix i7 3.9ghz 7600 - Roland Quad Capture - CbB - SD2 Metal Foundry/Roots Stix - NI Komplete 8 - Amplitube 3 & 4 - Addictive Drums 2 - Halion 6 - Izotope Musician Bundle - Waves Stuff - Melodyne Studio - AIR 3 - Revoice 3 - Sssshhhhh don't tell anyone but also Studio One 4 - Cubase 9.5 - Samplitude Pro X3 - FL Studio 20 - Mixbus 4 - Reaper 5 - And a big arsed pocket full of dreams (deceased or otherwise.)
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Royal Yaksman
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 04:59:59
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alewgro
What is easier to look at:
THIS?
OR THIS?
The first one... But if you suffer from vision deficiencies? I support your request to have something added that makes the program more usable to you.
Royal Yaksman HP Phoenix i7 3.9ghz 7600 - Roland Quad Capture - CbB - SD2 Metal Foundry/Roots Stix - NI Komplete 8 - Amplitube 3 & 4 - Addictive Drums 2 - Halion 6 - Izotope Musician Bundle - Waves Stuff - Melodyne Studio - AIR 3 - Revoice 3 - Sssshhhhh don't tell anyone but also Studio One 4 - Cubase 9.5 - Samplitude Pro X3 - FL Studio 20 - Mixbus 4 - Reaper 5 - And a big arsed pocket full of dreams (deceased or otherwise.)
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mudgel
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 05:40:11
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The one single word from Cakewalk on which all this pivots (in my opinion), is Upfront. As soon as discussion about payment upfront was mentioned that lead to the subscription issue and that was it. The reality is that however you purchase now you are getting the last years worth of development for your money. The product is now simply called Sonar and is being released in Artist, Producer or Platinum configurations via a membership. In the year moving forward, Cakewalk will be releasing updates and fixes on a semi monthly basis. Your current membership payment will get you the current version and the next 12 months of updates in a non expiring licence the same as before. We are also providing a payment plan for those that would like to pay that way instead of an annual membership. Naturally this will be dearer and your non expiring licence is dependent on you maintaining your annual membership for that years release. Simples
post edited by mudgel - 2015/01/18 05:48:42
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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