watercourse
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 09:09:33
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
watercourse
I have a question regarding ProChannel modules. I apologize if this was already asked and answered. I searched the thread and wasn't able to find my specific question. I currently have X3 Producer and am considering switching to the new Professional version (not Platinum). I understand that any separately purchased PC modules will show up in Professional, but what about PC modules included with X3 Producer that are not purchased separately and also not included in the default Professional version? I'm specifically referring to Breverb Sonar, PC76, PC4k bus compressor, Console Emulator, Tape Emulator and Tape Saturation. Since I 'own' these from X3 Producer, will they still be available to me if I switch to Professional? And, if I do get access to these modules within Professional, what is required to activate them? Does X3 need to be installed on the machine or does activation happen through the command center, etc.?
Thanks in advance!
Hi Watercourse,
Yes all your existing ProChannel plugins will work in SONAR Professional. You will also get the new REmatrix Solo.
Great, thanks. One follow up: Does X3Pe need to be installed on the machine for the PC modules to show up in Professional, or is there some other method, e.g. Command Center?
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SGodfrey
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 09:17:13
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
ontime
I don't get this at all and I feel quite unhappy about it.
Firstly - I can't get X3 anymore? I was on X2 and was so disappointed how quickly X3 came out after shelling out for upgrades since 8.5 -> X1 -> X2. I thought I'd wait for X4.
But a) no X4, and b) an annual subscription? What the ????
And I don't even have the option of upgrading to X3 any more... it's annual membership or get lost???
What's with the stupid names - "Platinum"? What version is that?
I'm pretty unhappy about this. Might be time to learn a new product? Subscription model is @#$% - hell I'm a hobbyist that fires up my Sonar maybe twice a year for editing, and usually just to play my keyboard as a piano. Yes, waste of money for Producer but I wanted the best. But a subscription model? So offensive.
This is not a subscription model. Please read the FAQ: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Membership
SONAR X3 has been out for 15 months. You know eventually it will be updated, and it has with new version.
SONAR X3 = SONAR Artist
SONAR X3 Studio = SONAR Professional
SONAR X3 Produer = SONAR Platinum
If you want to buy an upgrade, our friends at GC still have it: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Cakewalk-SONAR-X3-Producer-Upgrade-from-SONAR-X2-Producer-Software-Download-109841619-i3455813.gc
Lastly, this new model should work out nicely for you if you think about it. You never have to worry if buy a version only to have a newer one come out the next day. You could go buy X3 somewhere but let me ask you why you would do that? If you buy say SONAR Platinum for the same price of $149, you will get:
- Everything in SONAR X3
- Everything announced in SONAR Platinum
- Plus 12 more months of new features and more
And you will own everything you receive. So explain to me how X3 is better? Maybe you can make me understand that logic.
Thanks.
Hi Andrew, Have I misunderstood something? You said he could upgrade to Sonar Platinum for $149 but the OP said that he was currently on X2. My understanding from the website is that it costs $199 to go from X2 to Platinum. For me the big point is that there's no deals anymore. I was prepared to wait for a year after the new version came out to pick it up at a sale price, in fact it was the only way I could afford it. That options gone now, so now I'm stuck on X2. What was the best price we had for upgrading to X3 Producer? Better than $149 I think. Like the OP, if I could get X3 Producer at the best price I'd be considering that I think. I hope my tone comes across OK because I'm not wishing to agitate - I love Cakewalk, I love Sonar, but I'm feeling marooned right now.
Sonar Platinum x64 Cakewalk UA-25EX Asus X556UA-DM898T i7-7500U 8GB 1TB, Windows 10 Home Komplete 11 Ultimate, Kontrol S49, Maschine Jam, Mikro mk2, Arturia V Collection 4
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Paul P
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 09:23:56
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SGodfrey
For me the big point is that there's no deals anymore. I was prepared to wait for a year after the new version came out to pick it up at a sale price, in fact it was the only way I could afford it. That options gone now, so now I'm stuck on X2.
I think I've read every post relating to the new Sonar these last few days and cannot recall a single remark from Cakewalk regarding sales. So I don't think we can mourn their passing just yet.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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SGodfrey
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 09:59:14
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☄ Helpfulby cparmerlee 2015/01/18 10:32:08
Paul P
SGodfrey
For me the big point is that there's no deals anymore. I was prepared to wait for a year after the new version came out to pick it up at a sale price, in fact it was the only way I could afford it. That options gone now, so now I'm stuck on X2.
I think I've read every post relating to the new Sonar these last few days and cannot recall a single remark from Cakewalk regarding sales. So I don't think we can mourn their passing just yet.
The new model precludes it. Up to now, they could reduce the price in the sales for "year-old tech", but now it's only going to be possible to buy the latest, most up to date version and since you're buying a membership, it has to always be the same price. That's my view on it anyway. I can see prochannel modules and things like Z3ta 2 appearing in the sales but not Sonar itself.
Sonar Platinum x64 Cakewalk UA-25EX Asus X556UA-DM898T i7-7500U 8GB 1TB, Windows 10 Home Komplete 11 Ultimate, Kontrol S49, Maschine Jam, Mikro mk2, Arturia V Collection 4
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Paul P
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 10:06:15
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Cakewalk has had introductory sales, like they have now for Platinum, end-of-version sales like they had recently and sales in the middle of the year for no particular reason. You could argue that this was unfair to those who paid full price.
Why wouldn't Cakewalk have a jump-on-the-bandwagon-sale every once in a while ?
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azslow3
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 10:29:06
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Paul P
Why wouldn't Cakewalk have a jump-on-the-bandwagon-sale every once in a while ?
Before they could say "early adopters could use version Y longer". But now later "jump-on"ers will be able to use new version longer and they will get updates longer. And so: * in case there is a sale for 1 year subscription, early adopters can get bad feeling... * in case there is no sale, there will be less users... But, they can: * add some content which is available "this month" only, so later "jump-on"ers will not get it (as it was with X2 Content Club). * open possibility to buy next subscription in advance, so current members also can participate the sale. Curiously, CW has written the time of the membership start from the time of pursues. But that can be changed.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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cparmerlee
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 10:31:11
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☄ Helpfulby Sweet Tooth 2015/01/18 10:55:05
SGodfrey
For me the big point is that there's no deals anymore.
This new plan amounts to a doubling or tripling of the customary price people have come to expect. And it happens by nibbling away in several areas: 1) Controlling or eliminating the late-life discounting 2) Discouraging the skipping of releases 3) Increasing the subscription 33% in the second year 4) Charging more for one year than was previously charged per release, even though the releases were usually spaced about 18 months apart. Every business is entitled to try to maximize their profit. My only objection is the attempt to pass this off as an altruistic move. It is not altruistic. It is profit-centered, and there is nothing wrong with that. I want Cakewalk/Gibson to be profitable so they will have the resources to continue to build a good product. As a person who has had to make many similar marketing/pricing decisions in the past, I caution that pricing is not a one-dimensional thing. There is action/reaction. I expect that the most active Sonar users will support the program, but this program could prove to be very off-putting to the less active users and most importantly, the potential new users. When looking at other options like Reaper, I can imagine many will be driven away, so this may not end up maximizing profits in the long run.
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azslow3
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 10:58:58
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cparmerlee
SGodfrey
For me the big point is that there's no deals anymore.
This new plan amounts to a doubling or tripling of the customary price people have come to expect. And it happens by nibbling away in several areas:
1) Controlling or eliminating the late-life discounting
We should wait a while to see either it is "eliminated". CW was not telling in November 2013 that at December 2014 you can get 60% discount...
2) Discouraging the skipping of releases
From all posts from CW, that is going to be simpler then before. And you can skip for example 1.5 "releases", instead either 1 or 2.
3) Increasing the subscription 33% in the second year
Preliminary marketing information... see (1)
4) Charging more for one year than was previously charged per release, even though the releases were usually spaced about 18 months apart.
I have pre-ordered Platinum for the same price I paid for "discounted" X3 after 3 month... And you get upgrades next 12 month. So I do not see it is more expensive NOW, do you?
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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maximumpower
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 11:07:07
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Wow! I go to Birmingham (UK) on business and this happens.
I tried to read everything in this thread to try to understand the issues people are having but this seems like a no brainer to me.
Thank you for the fun product (I'm a hobbyist) and thank you for the great communication. I can't think of another company that I buy from that does this as well as Cakewalk. I have been lucky enough to have met some of the Bakers at GearFest. Great group of people, as far as I'm concerned.
I am downloading the Command Center as I type. I can't wait to try out the new features and look forward to an exciting 2015!
Rock on!
Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610
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Paul P
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 11:25:29
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maximumpower
I am downloading the Command Center as I type. I can't wait to try out the new features and look forward to an exciting 2015!
Be aware that Sonar is not yet available  . Your Command Center will be empty for now.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Geo524
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 11:26:48
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So the intro price of $149 is only temporary and will be going up some time after February? I'm not happy about that at all. I always thought Cakewalk was very fair with their pricing considering all that was included. I was a supporter since SHS 6XL but I will not pay one cent over $149. Time to move on now...
Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" MonitorsMusic and SFX http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite
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FastBikerBoy
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Grem
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 11:37:50
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maximumpower
I tried to read everything in this thread to try to understand the issues people are having but this seems like a no brainer to me.
I read about the first five pages (and couldn't take it anymore!) and saw a definite pattern! Those saying it was a subscription: Cakewalk explaining it wasn't Those asking good questions: Only to get lost in the flood of the above. Those wondering how this all was going to play out: Only to get lost in all the above! After 39 pages, a thousand replies, and over 32,000 views, in four days!? Well no matter how you look at it, they have created "something" here!! I can't wait till the next episode!! (That would be the release date!)
Grem
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Sweet Tooth
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 11:37:57
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How does this new membership model effect the First Sale Rights in the EU? I imagine the landmark court decision no longer applies as Cake is no longer selling you a license but rather a membership.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 11:55:46
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cparmerlee SGodfrey For me the big point is that there's no deals anymore. In the very first paragraph about membership: "Members are also entitled to free technical support and discounted Membership renewals." You could still elect to "play chicken" and hope that at the last minute, Cakewalk will do the same kind of promotions magazines do to retain readers. They may, they may not. They may offer an "early bird" discount. We never knew when specials or discounts would happen in the past, and I doubt we'll know in the future. We'll find out, but there's a CLEAR STATEMENT that discounts are planned. Furthermore, it's against the law to collude with retailers to maintain artificially high prices. If Sweetwater wants to say "SPRING SPECIAL!! Buy SONAR Platinum for $349!! they can do that. They can bundle it with their Creation Station. They can discount it at GearFest. Cakewalk can offer discounts. It's not necessary for Cakewalk to issue a statement that says "We have no plans to break the laws of this country and get into legal trouble" any more than they need to issue a statement saying they don't plan to rob banks or run red lights. I don't understand why people with no affiliation with Cakewalk are making pronouncements about what Cakewalk will do that are in direct opposition to what Cakewalk itself says. This new plan amounts to a doubling or tripling of the customary price people have come to expect. And it happens by nibbling away in several areas: 1) Controlling or eliminating the late-life discounting2) Discouraging the skipping of releases3) Increasing the subscription 33% in the second year4) Charging more for one year than was previously charged per release, even though the releases were usually spaced about 18 months apart. A doubling or tripling? No. SONAR X3's list price was $599. It usually sold for $499 or was available at various discounts. If you wanted an update after the first year, the full price would be $149. But it could be less if you caught a special, or were willing to wait and forego the new features for several months. The upfront price of SONAR Platinum is $499. The first update costs you nothing, it's built into the upfront cost. So worst case, you're paying $499 for what you would have paid $648 for, worst case. For that $499 to represent a doubling, someone would have needed to buy SONAR Producer and the first update for $249.50. For a tripling, someone would have had to buy SONAR Producer new and the first update for $167. Was anyone able to buy at that price? Every business is entitled to try to maximize their profit. My only objection is the attempt to pass this off as an altruistic move. It is not altruistic. It is profit-centered, and there is nothing wrong with that. Yes, there is. If the only concern is profit, Cakewalk will go down the tubes. I don't want Cakewalk to go down the tubes. I want to see Cakewalk have more customers than ever before, be able to hire more people, expand product offerings, get users to switch from other DAWs, and create incredible content. By doing that, profits will result. Profits do NOT occur by simply saying "Let's make more money!" They come from creating products that people want to buy, and pricing them accordingly. Customers, not Cakewalk, will drive profits by determining whether they're getting value received. Cakewalk is betting they will, and created a model that they think will insure winning that bet. We'll know if they were right in a year from now. No one is holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to buy SONAR. I expect that the most active Sonar users will support the program, but this program could prove to be very off-putting to the less active users and most importantly, the potential new users. When looking at other options like Reaper, I can imagine many will be driven away, so this may not end up maximizing profits in the long run. New users pay pretty much what they would have paid before, or less if retailers or Cakewalk decide to do specials. And they get a years' worth of updates. And content. And a better model that gets features into their hands sooner. And they can pay monthly if that's more affordable. Hmmm, new users get more and pay less...doesn't sound off-putting to me. And they can buy SONAR Artist, which has the same core specs as Platinum but costs a lot less. And your math is wrong about an update "every 18 months." If you count 8.5, which was a major update and many considered as "SONAR 9," there were 12 major releases in 13 years. That's a new release every 13 months, or very close to one release per year. It's perfectly fine for people to have opinions, but I just wish those opinions were based on facts. (BTW Justin Frankel, whose sale of Nullsoft to AOL was valued as increasing his net worth by $59,000,000, is the person behind Reaper. Trust me, if Cakewalk had $59,000,000, they could do a lot with SONAR.)
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benvenisti
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 12:01:05
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Larry Jones
The way it works on Alpha Centauri is Centaurians learn about something first, then comment on it. Earth is a little different. Many people comment on something first, then learn about it.
There really was an alphaCentauri. It was a pre-MIDI synth that connected to an Apple II via an RS-232 Serial interface that was a predecessor to the MIDI spec. It had 16 digital oscillators, 8-note stereo polyphony and 8-part multi-timbrality. It was one of the first DAW's! It cost somewhere around $3000 dollars with a very-nice keyboard and the Apple II and a 5MB hard drive. At that price it was the poor man's Synclavier. If you knew how to program in 6502 Assembler you could do FM synthesis and Z-Plane synthesis. This was in early 1982. Craig, care to chime in? Or am I dating you (and me)? I still have mine in the original box, with the Mountain Cards. The Apple II is long gone (sigh). The alphaSyntauri today is just $59! Actually it's a VST called from Audio Damage modeled on the alphaSyntauri. Phosphor adds velocity control, a much more extensive modulation routing system, tempo synced LFOs, a pair of delays, and two monophonic modes. The noise and oscillators are able to work in the original alphaSyntauri resolutions, and can also be run at modern sample rates.
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 12:04:19
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Sweet Tooth How does this new membership model effect the First Sale Rights in the EU? I imagine the landmark court decision no longer applies as Cake is no longer selling you a license but rather a membership. No matter what the sales or distribution model, software intellectual property has traditionally been licensed. I don't expect Cakewalk to depart from that in the next EULA. A good analogy is a CD. You buy a CD, you get a physical product. You do not own the IP. The IP still belongs to the songwriter (minus whatever percentage record company weasels were able to extract  ).
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johnnyV
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 12:27:30
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Speaking of Sonars $499 price tag and the Apple II. My first sequencer was Dr T KCS 2, And I paid $499 for it. There were updates at about $150 each year or so after that, I went as far as I think 4.5. This was a 16 track MIDI Sequencer,,, no audio, no plug ins, no VST instruments.
So will all you spoiled brats shut up about the price... man you don't have a clue what your getting for practically nothing. Sonar has become the best bang for the buck DAW period.
And if you don't like $149 (or $199), go for Professional because that's still an upgrade.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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Grem
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 12:33:19
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johnnyV
So will all you spoiled brats shut up about the price... man you don't have a clue what your getting for practically nothing.
I still am in love with the fact I can do what I do for the price I pay. When I was 18 years old, I never saw this day coming! Just as a reminder for those on a budget, check out the deals forum for a place to get the new Sonar at even better than $149 price.
Grem
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 12:36:31
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Anderton
Earwax
I'm obviously not asking Cakewalk to publish a list of bugs that exist in the new version (unless, of course, they can). I'm asking them to address improvements made to core functions shared between the old and new versions of the software. I mean, c'mon! They've got to know what they improved! Right?? It is generally a company's major sales technique for anything "new and improved" to tell the public...well...what is new and improved!! I got the new. What's the improved?
The link was to a bug fix list for X3/X3a and X3b, so it covered the ones from X2 to X3. Presumably the one for Platinum will include the ones from X3 to Platinum. It seems one bug that mattered to me is you can now bounce with MIDI FX in real time as well as fast bounce mode. Also...
I CAN PASTE BUS AUTOMATION FROM ONE BUS TO ANOTHER! FROM A BUS TO A TRACK! FROM A TRACK TO A BUS!!
I guess someone was listening to Stickman
Actually it seems like automation has a bunch of clean-ups. Maybe that happened in the process of doing Mix Recall.
There are plenty of bug fixes across multiple areas of the app. We fix bugs in parallel with development of new features and some commonly reported bugs get highlighted. For example a ton of editing and automation bugs got addressed as a result of mix recall since it serves as a giant macro for automating a large number of operations on track parameters and envelopes. We will publish a list of known fixes when we get some bandwidth to sort through the database and separate stuff that was fixed as part of development vs older preexisting issues. Right now everyone is too busy with the immediate release to do that.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 12:37:40
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Anderton
It's perfectly fine for people to have opinions, but I just wish those opinions were based on facts.
My opinion is based on the available facts. You are SPECULATING about how aggressively Cakewalk might drive this new program. I submit they don't know the answer to that yet because that will depend on how much chaos this program causes on the sales front. I know that I have paid about $150 for X1, X2, and X3 Producer upgrades. That is about $450 in 4 years -- just over $100 a year if my math is correct. And the fact is that this program is stated to cost me $200 a year going forward. In my particular case, that is just short of a doubling of the price. That's a fact. That Cakewalk MIGHT offer a discount a year from now is SPECULATION. That Cakewalk might actually deliver function at a faster rate is SPECULATION -- certainly not guaranteed anywhere in these terms.. As I say, every company is entitled to offer their product as they see fit. In my case, I will probably do the first year and see how it goes.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
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potpourri
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 12:59:28
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cparmerlee
Anderton
It's perfectly fine for people to have opinions, but I just wish those opinions were based on facts.
My opinion is based on the available facts. You are SPECULATING about how aggressively Cakewalk might drive this new program. I submit they don't know the answer to that yet because that will depend on how much chaos this program causes on the sales front.
I know that I have paid about $150 for X1, X2, and X3 Producer upgrades. That is about $450 in 4 years -- just over $100 a year if my math is correct. And the fact is that this program is stated to cost me $200 a year going forward. In my particular case, that is just short of a doubling of the price. That's a fact. That Cakewalk MIGHT offer a discount a year from now is SPECULATION. That Cakewalk might actually deliver function at a faster rate is SPECULATION -- certainly not guaranteed anywhere in these terms..
As I say, every company is entitled to offer their product as they see fit. In my case, I will probably do the first year and see how it goes.
$450 in 4 years for 3upgrades , ok , but with their new model they might release (ok i say might) 2 versions worth of updates in 1 year , so in your case your price per year is going up, but the amount of features (and fixes) 'will ' be greater thus giving more value in the end (theoretically) , let's see how this turns out , maybe CW could reconsider after year one and allow to buy the program up to that version in 6 month increment subscriptions or similar.
post edited by potpourri - 2015/01/18 13:08:07
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cparmerlee
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 13:16:49
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potpourri
with their new model they might release (ok i say might) 2 versions
worth of updates in 1 year ,
I agree. That MIGHT happen. I'm OK with it, at least for the first year. My view is that the new version seems a little light in value compared to X3, but it is a respectable amount of new function that I will benefit from even if there is no additional value delivered during 2015. But I do think there is a lot of risk of this program chasing away fence-sitters and potential new users. And if that happens in big way, that will make it more difficult to fund development at a high level. This is just an opinion, and nobody (inside or outside of Cakewalk) can say for certain how that will turn out. It largely depends on whether products like Reaper, StudioOne, and Cubase adopt a similar model. And I think people may not be looking at the "skip release" scenario quite right. The purpose of eliminating the "X3", "X4", "X5" naming is to move away from the concept of periodic major releases. If we take Cakewalk at their word, there wouldn't necessarily be a "release" to skip. Sure, a person could let their subscription lapse and not make another payment until there was a specific new feature they just can't live without. So in that sense, the "skip release" thinking makes sense. I'm just saying it isn't like deciding to skip X2 and get back in at X3, for example.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
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potpourri
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 13:43:15
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cparmerlee
potpourri
with their new model they might release (ok i say might) 2 versions
worth of updates in 1 year ,
My view is that the new version seems a little light in value compared to X3, but it is a respectable amount of new function that I will benefit from even if there is no additional value delivered during 2015.
i'm not long enough a sonar user to comment wich version had the most important feature implemented , i can say though that i own (aside from a considerable amount of hardware) reaper , flstudio , tracktion ,energy xt and reason, each has their merits but for me sonar seems to have one of the best value considering , i have quite taken a liking for sonar since it has quite some classic features from my atari days , and audiosnap wich i find easy to work with(i have x3e studio and allready payed for prof2015) , a good reverb plugin alone would set you back more than what 100-150?, so the new overloud convolution verb in prof/platinum is allready a good start , but it's features that enhance the workflow and midieditor i look forward to .
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Anderton
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 13:57:36
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cparmerlee
Anderton
It's perfectly fine for people to have opinions, but I just wish those opinions were based on facts.
My opinion is based on the available facts. You are SPECULATING about how aggressively Cakewalk might drive this new program. I am not speculating about how aggressively Cakewalk will drive this new program. I know what at least some of the plans are. But also, I have made no unconditional statement that the program will be a success. I have always made a conditional statement: It is up to Cakewalk to create a product that people want to buy. IF they do, THEN my belief is that the program will be successful. I know that I have paid about $150 for X1, X2, and X3 Producer upgrades. That is about $450 in 4 years -- just over $100 a year if my math is correct. I'm not saying your math isn't correct. In your post you based your opinion on an upgrade cycle of 18 months. That was wrong. I pointed out that it's more like 13 months. Obviously X4 didn't come out in 2014, but a few changes have happened along the way, if you know what I mean...there was a fallow period prior to X3, and a long wait for the next version. Cakewalk has traditionally done yearly updates, and history supports that.
And the fact is that this program is stated to cost me $200 a year going forward. In my particular case, that is just short of a doubling of the price. That's a fact. That Cakewalk MIGHT offer a discount a year from now is SPECULATION.
One more time, from the Membership benefits page: "Members are also entitled to free technical support and discounted Membership renewals." That statement is a matter of public record, not speculation. That Cakewalk might actually deliver function at a faster rate is SPECULATION -- certainly not guaranteed anywhere in these terms. Cakewalk has made significant, physical, already existing changes in the software, the way of implementing updates, and the way of delivering updates. There is now an infrastructure in place that allows delivering functions at a faster rate. That is not speculation. I really don't think that Cakewalk went through a year's worth of effort to create this system in order not to use it. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 14:11:22
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Anderton
One more time, from the Membership benefits page: "Members are also entitled to free technical support and discounted Membership renewals." That statement is a matter of public record, not speculation.
Are you saying the membership renewal for Platinum is not $199, or is $199 the "discounted" price? If it isn't $199, then what is it? As far as I know, the only fact on the table is $199, and that's what I based my opinion on.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
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lludwick
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 14:47:19
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I wish we had more time for the $149 promo subscription to move from X3 to Platinum. It is almost February and Platinum has not been released to the general Sonar base. I am antsy about being an early adopter because it is pretty much essential to me to be able to make my music without being damned by new release bugs. I see messages about problems with Melodyne and NI Kontact plugins (although from what I have read, they are not common to all users).
I started with Cakewalk at the beginning somehow getting a beta test floppy disk from Twelve Tones way back then (I wasn't the best choice, ... I used it a great deal but was not prompt in reporting bugs). I had a brief stint with Cubase, but huffed off after a few years a bit grumpy about the dongle and also their attitude that a discussion of a Cubase without a dongle was verboten on their boards. I have been loyal and have always managed to upgrade, although for the X series, I always upgraded when the price was lowered to $99.
Platinum seems to have improvements, but certainly does not qualify as a upgrade level improvement especially considering X3 has been out more than a year. It might be worthwhile for me to wait to subscribe even if it costs me $199, but that does represent a 100% increase in the bump I am accustomed to suffering. I'm sure I will bite the bullet, but not with a smile on my face.
For the big picture, I am concerned because in the scheme of software development there has always been a flow: Company eats the cost of development --> released product returns the development cost and some profits which allow for further development (loop back). This subscription scheme however seems to attempt to pay ahead so that even though development occurs the money for the development has already been garnered and spent. Come tough times there is no longer a backup surplus for development. It is much like the 'no-no' of paying a contractor to do work on your house and paying the cost up front. Good for the contractor, but bad for you. I'm not really saying this could be an immediate problem, but it just nags at me from a distant corner of my consciousness.
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John
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 14:59:51
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You can still use X3 if you run into any problems with Sonar 2015. You shouldn't have any majors issues.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 15:09:09
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There have been a number of occasions when it's been shown that Cakewalk not only listens to its customers, but also takes action on such comments.
From a personal point of view, I always remember one particular gesture that not only displayed a complete understanding of the customers' point of view, but also resulted in some excellent positive action on their part. To me, actions speak louder than words, and the actions they took at the time was both magnanimous and well-received.
To briefly summarise, a lot of SONAR Home Studio 4 and 6 customers were disappointed with what we perceived to be a 'dumbing down' of the follow up product Home Studio 7 (and Home Studio 7XL). There was a lot of adverse activity in the HS forum following the release, and I'm certain that a few of us also contacted Cakewalk directly to complain. To their eternal credit, Cakewalk came back to us and, although they stated clearly that HS7 would remain basically unchanged, they offered us an extremely generous deal for upgrading to SONAR 8 Studio.
As I say, it meant a lot to me personally that I knew we'd been listened to, and that a satisfactory outcome had been arrived at. And dare I say, the proof is in the pudding. I for one was very seriously considering jumping ship to another DAW, but the result of Cakewalk's understanding was that after having used SONAR 8 Studio for a while, I quickly upgraded to SONAR 8 Producer, and have continued upgrading/updating SONAR Producer/Platinum ever since.
It's often well remembered that just as the best advertisement and PR any company can receive is by word of mouth, the opposite is also true; 'bad news travels fast' as they say.
So I'm hedging my bets a little and have gone with Platinum. Based on past performance and through direct experience of being a customer since Guitar Tracks 2, I think that's a good decision. And as Cakewalk staff have been keen to state, this new modus operandi really does put the onus on them to deliver the goods, not just annually, but continually.
To me, that's worth my $149 now. It's up to Cakewalk to ensure that it's worth my $199 this time next year.
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lludwick
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Re: Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership
2015/01/18 15:12:18
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John
You can still use X3 if you run into any problems with Sonar 2015. You shouldn't have any majors issues.
Yes, that is my plan. I do like that I can still run X3 if I really have a problem. In fact, looking at my hard disk I can still run 8.5, X1, X2 and X3. I think even if I subscribe immediately, I will not bring any X3 projects into Platinum, I would just use it to start new projects.
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