SONAR - Feature Request LIST

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Rigel Russell
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/20 18:58:48 (permalink)
I enjoy working with Sonar and consider it pretty feature-rich.

My one request is a choice of file-types when doing "Save As" where you can generate a dumbed-down bundle file for collaborating with users of HomeStudio or older/lower versions of Sonar, ProAudio, or Cake.

How about adding:
Save As -> File Type:
CWPA 4.5/5 BUN (the catch-all)
CWPA 8 BUN (that HS9 might open?)
SONAR 1.x CWB (that all Sonar versions could open)

If not all these choices, how about just one to generate a bundle specifically for HS 2004 users with Sonar-specific features dropped? (it'll make them want to buy Sonar even more!)

Rigel Russell
Living Water Recording Studio
moniker
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/20 19:20:49 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: D.Triny

Rick, I'm genuinely impressed and pleased that you are mentally adept enough to adapt to working with a cock-eyed representation of the keyboard. I find it unnatural and unnecessary. Perhaps the solution would be the provision of a choice of views? Ideal!

Playing and viewing the keyboard is a left - right experience. Timing and transport is more easily viewed vertically than a keyboard is experienced sideways imho.

Moniker


hey man, I agree 100%

Moniker replies:
This is a professional requirement. Thanks for bumping it Mr. D. Triny.
< Message edited by moniker -- 7/21/2004 1:28:42 AM >
Lunatique
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/21 04:15:51 (permalink)
I would love to see a dry/wet/bypass automation envelop available for all effects. Using bussing for that kind of automation can get tiresome if you have to use a lot of evolving effects on different tracks.
planist
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/21 04:56:19 (permalink)
yesterday i finally had a look at the TRACKION demo..

first i have to say that these new programs really rival the known sequencers. they all appear to have looked at abletons live regarding the interface (track panel on the right side, etc...).

tracktion is a quite smooth seq that allows many things i miss in sonar. (some of them: Playback Priority Mode, Arm Track while Playback, Zooming with Mouse Movement, nice In/Out Window, ...)

The playback is somewhat smoother and less glitchy. (moving the now time bar, the start of playback, ... - all the transport functions it respond VERY fast!)
but i noticed also that movings audio clips causes gaps in playback as well.


I am sure CAKEWALK is looking at these new programs. And I think they should.

Jeff
< Message edited by planist -- 7/21/2004 5:01:54 AM >
planist
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/21 06:02:05 (permalink)
Customizable SubMenus for Plugs please
< Message edited by planist -- 7/21/2004 6:03:20 AM >
zentatonic
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/21 06:22:55 (permalink)
Customizable plug submenus is a good idea! And the "now time" bar is a little awkward. A traditional slider along the bottom of the tracks would do beautifully:-)

"headlight deer wearing hunterskin shoes" http://mountainmirrors.com 

kylen
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/21 14:31:02 (permalink)
Ability to work directly with 32bit float files. Native 32bit wave file support is what I'm asking fo I guess. Import, Export, bounce, etc the whole bit...

That way I can have all the little extra bits tagging along when I use Harbal EQ and Audition 1.5 who both understand 32bit float native wave files.

Thanks Cakewalk

PS I forgot upgrade price - I'd like to pay less than $50 American for the Sonar4 Producer update from Sonar3 Producer.
roughly
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RE: Sonar 4: Future Features 2004/07/21 15:45:36 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: deltadreams

ORIGINAL: ghijkmnop
If Cake tried to implement 202 (and growing) feature requests, Sonar 4 would be a $1500 piece of bloatware that would have a 3GHz CPU/1.5 GB RAM minimum requirement, and probably wouldn't be able to get out of its own way.

The phrases "Total cost of ownership" and "market share" needs to be applied here.


ghijkmnop:

Why don't you let cakewalk decide how much the software is going to be instead of automatically knocking down these ideas? it doesn't have to be all in 4. Those are the features someone wants. It may not all be put into the next version but don't try to limit someone else's ideas. The least you could do is thank him for taking the time to write up a long list of valid enhancements.


Jeez. 202 things that need to be added. You would think Sonar 3 stinks.


MightyLeeMoon:

same to you. why are you still stomping on other people's request for enhancements? if it wasn't for people like planist, software would hardly improve at the rate it should. secondly, it's people like you that hinder progress.
roughly



thanx delta,
i totally agree, why shoot down ideas at this stage. A creative person knows when brain-storming is proper and know that even if an idea isn't used it may lead to THE IDEA. I'm not saying that the ones here are trying to inpede progress aren't creative. What i am saying is, why not let the creativity flow here too like you would when working on a tune.

And as far as price, i'll buy it - this is my job. i just want the damn thing to work and help my realize my clients goals. If Sonar 4 is too much dough for some user or has more features than they require, everyone has the option of buy one of there low end hobbyist products or continuing to use there current version. Some of us need ever bit of power we can get and don't mind paying for it. (as long as the software works - even the automation!).
wsampler
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RE: Sonar 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 09:39:35 (permalink)
Just in case someone reads these : please add DOUBLE DOTTED NOTES in step recording and CONFIGURABLE NOTE DURATION/STEP keys and UNLIMITED (or at least finer) RESOLUTION in SCORE VIEW WINDOW (32nd note is often too coarse, and triplet resolution is very frequently needed).
mtl blue
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RE: Sonar 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 13:20:21 (permalink)
Import -> CD audio. It is a pain to use another product to rip to wav, then import. More software= sludge in your DAW
mtl blue
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RE: Sonar 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 13:26:20 (permalink)
The ability to swap in a wav for another.

This would be interesting for drum tracks. Imagine an easy interface where you can capture part of an audio event, such as the snare in a loop, and simply push "replace with" then insert new wav. Instant Drumagog, right there in the interface of Sonar. Every time that frequency is heard on that track the new sound is inserted.

The "noiseprint" technogy already exists in Sonic Foundry's Noise Reduction (as well as others), now imagine if you could use that for replacing ceratin sounds in a percussion loop.

Let me know if this already exists in Sonar and I was too simple to figure it out myself....
Sonic
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 13:38:36 (permalink)
How about being to setup automatic fades to prevent clicks and pops when deleting portions of audio data...kind of like Acid has. Or for that matter, an 'erase' icon for swiping out data?
RickH
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 13:46:32 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: planist
...
--> instead of the tempo view there should be a special tempo track in the track view/ or bus view

This would be quite useful to me. Most of what I do is orchestral, and usually involves many very slight tempo changes.

R.
==
Dk3d
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 13:47:15 (permalink)
Alot of the issues appear to be hardware issues (on your end). The video thing for example, of the Plugin pops and clicks.

"arm a track and record while playback" ?

What am I missing. Can't it do this already? If you mean you want to have 4 or 5 (or 10) tracks playing, some midi, some audio (perhaps with some realtime effects), and perhaps you playing on a midi keyboard or on your guitar hooked into the line in, and then another track set to take it all in and record it while it all plays back...

This currently is possible. If you mean something else, then sorry.


Dreamweaver type file management is a cool idea... But... it has it's limitations in terms of what it knows and how to keep track of it. HTML, images, fine. CGI, PHP, javascripts, it has no clue where they went or what you did with it. Ever have a javscript error because the page is looking for files that you had moved in Dreamweaver and forgot that you had to physically change the html.

Heck, even their built in drop down menu "in the behaviors" thing can't keep up with you moving files around.

Since I'm guessing 99% of the people here use more than Sonar for their audio work, letting Sonar manage all audio files in a given project sounds nice, but after 10 minutes i think we'd all turn it off because all it would take is to step outside Sonar for 30 seconds into another program and shift some files and the whole thing would fall flat and we'd be screaming at cakewalk for .... something.

I prefer to rely upon my own brain.
losguy
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 16:58:48 (permalink)
Two-way Generic Control Surface support: Lots of us have obscure motorized faders and 1) we want the faders on them to move, and 2) we do not wish to use the Control Surface API write a new custom Control Surface dll.

SONAR should provide fuller built-in support for two-way MIDI in the Generic Control Surface. It should particularly add support for sending MIDI data back out from the Generic Control Surface, say, through a selectable MIDI port. This would greatly ease the ability to interface with active control surfaces, particularly controllers with motorized faders. Also, providing some control over what data gets sent back to the controller (i.e. mapping and filtering) would be helpful. This should automatically default, however, to straight reflection of the same values that came in from the controller to record the automation data.

MIDI feedback loop elimination would be a handy addition. A key to this would be that if a checkbox is selected (on a per-parameter basis), the same command is not allowed to pass through twice in a row (i.e. the same data value for the same CC#). For most parameter automation, one message with a certain data value is all that is needed to update the value; another identical message is redundant. For some controllers that "chatter", filtering could be provided, say on certain combinations of data within a certain value range and within a certain time constraint.
< Message edited by losguy -- 7/26/2004 5:15:28 PM >

Psalm 30:12
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soundfreely
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/26 21:19:52 (permalink)
I'd love to see better Quicktime video support as well as the ability to output DV to a standard NTSC monitor. Also, 23.976 fps in the project menu would be a nice addition.

I know I just posted questions regarding this issue. I have been working with music related projects for many years and in the recent year I have been doing a lot more audio for video work. I've grown to love working in Sonar and I don't like resorting to Pro Tools and all of its quirkiness for this type of work. I also think that more and more studios are starting to do a lot of this type of work.

-Erik

Edit: I didn't see this request either- Would it be possible to have a true key input for dynamics processors (as opposed to L keys R)?
< Message edited by soundfreely -- 7/26/2004 9:23:48 PM >
planist
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/27 10:57:07 (permalink)
"arm a track and record while playback" ?

What am I missing. Can't it do this already? If you mean you want to have 4 or 5 (or 10) tracks playing, some midi, some audio (perhaps with some realtime effects), and perhaps you playing on a midi keyboard or on your guitar hooked into the line in, and then another track set to take it all in and record it while it all plays back...

This currently is possible. If you mean something else, then sorry.


no, i mean something different:
imagine -

you let the song play, go outside the room, (e.g. in my case to the bathroom ;) ), while you hear it from outside you get an idea, run into the room, it all sounds louder , you almost lose the idea, but SONAR 4 saves it because you can press "R" on an audiotrack and start recording, while the songs is still on playback. - No stopping required.. like tracktion, live, podium


jeff
< Message edited by planist -- 7/27/2004 10:58:39 AM >
stillfox
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/27 14:22:00 (permalink)
I second this!! It sure was irritating plugging my new flying-fader control surface to find it was only supported as a Generic Control Surface, which of course means the faders won't fly.

ORIGINAL: losguy

Two-way Generic Control Surface support: Lots of us have obscure motorized faders and 1) we want the faders on them to move, and 2) we do not wish to use the Control Surface API write a new custom Control Surface dll.

SONAR should provide fuller built-in support for two-way MIDI in the Generic Control Surface. It should particularly add support for sending MIDI data back out from the Generic Control Surface, say, through a selectable MIDI port. This would greatly ease the ability to interface with active control surfaces, particularly controllers with motorized faders. Also, providing some control over what data gets sent back to the controller (i.e. mapping and filtering) would be helpful. This should automatically default, however, to straight reflection of the same values that came in from the controller to record the automation data.

VariousArtist
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/27 15:45:24 (permalink)
Another thing I'd like to see -- and it should be easy to add:

"Persistent MIDI Port Numbering"
If a port is configured to be attached to a particular MIDI Interface, then I'd like the option to keep it that way, even if that MIDI interface is not plugged in. I'd rather have SONAR tell me that it can't find the associated device in much the same way that it tells me it can't locate a particular DX plug-in.

It's really annoying when this happens:
Ports 1-4 are assigned to my MIDI interface's ports 1-4. And I have port 5 assigned to a DXi instrument. Now I remove the MIDI interface, and suddenly the DXi instrument is Port 1. Eh?

If this is already possible, then I'd love to know about it. And if it's been mentioned before then here's another vote for this.
VariousArtist
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/27 15:52:29 (permalink)
This is a long shot, but something else that I think would be useful:

It would be great if there was some soft-switch communication between SONAR and the sound card's control panel. For example, I could set it up such that enabling "input monitoring" would send a command to the sound card control panel to mute the source output.

This would require the sound card manufacturers to open up some API functionality that could be communicated to from SONAR (and other software sequencers). These API's could be standardized (for general things like volume controls and muting, etc) with some manufacturer-specific API's for things that are particular to that manufacturer (such as the way a sound-card might enable some internal routing of its audio -- rather like the way the MIDI spec allows for NRPN's or Sysex).

Maybe it's not a big deal for some people, but I'd like to have total control over my sound card from within SONAR, and even save its settings (or have them triggered in the way SONAR supports bulk sysex on startup).
< Message edited by VariousArtist -- 7/27/2004 12:54:14 PM >
VariousArtist
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features - Save Audio Latency config with Project 2004/07/27 16:06:30 (permalink)
I'd like to have the option of saving the current Audio Latency Configuration settings per Project, rather than just having it saved Globally.

I usually have different settings depending on what stage I am at in the great circle of life,...erm, I mean within the Recording/Mixing phases.

For example, when I start a new project I may have my latency set "very fast", especially if I use "input monitoring" a lot. But as the project gets bigger I need to be more conservative. When I get to mixing a huge project I may prefer to have the settings slower so that I avoid all the stuttering from trying to have too many things running at the same time.

It's a nuisance to reset the parameters for every project. okay, with my newer, faster PC it's become less of an issue, but it would be easy to have these settings saved along with the project...
planist
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features - Save Audio Latency config with Project 2004/07/28 09:35:51 (permalink)
thanks for all these FRs.

it seems that as closer we get to 4 the more response/discussion appears..

i still hadnt the time to fix the list and add all the new FRs..

ill do that later,


Jeff
imotic
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RE: Sonar 4: Future Features 2004/07/30 14:15:14 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: mtl blue

The ability to swap in a wav for another.


That would be a good feature. Right now, if you go to "Clip Properties>Audio Files", you'll see the physical file with its location on disk. What would be good to have is being able to double-click on the file name, which would bring up a Browse dialog where you could select a new file. (This would also be helpful if you were obsessive about naming files to have meaningful names, and you wanted to do it through the operating system- then you could change the SONAR clip properties to agree with the name you just gave it.)
imotic
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/30 14:25:44 (permalink)
proper tempo envelopes. This has been touched on already, but i haven't seen anyone say specifically that they'd like to see tempo changes behave the same way as other envelopes. From within the Tempo View, I'd like to be able to graphically insert tempo change points by double-clicking on any given point. I'd then be able to right-click on any point, or any curve, and change all the things you can in a regular envelope. As far as a curve goes, i'd like to be able to select "fast curve", "slow curve", "linear", or "jump".

I see that someone else mentioned being able to use a pencil tool in envelope creation. I think integrating the pencil tool with the envelope tool would help in both areas where these tools are used separately. Another example would be the MIDI controller pane- right now you can only use a pencil for that, but it'd be nice if you could use an envelope. Giving the user the option of choosing the level of granularity would definitely be a positive step.

One other interface that might be considered is Macromedia Flash's tool for drawing- you can set whether you want edges to be rigid or liquid by choosing "straighten", "smooth", or "ink" in the pencil tool. This would also go a long way in giving the user more control over the level of granularity.
< Message edited by imotic -- 7/30/2004 2:27:49 PM >
cmusicmaker
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features - Save Audio Latency config with Project 2004/07/30 14:45:39 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: planist

thanks for all these FRs.

it seems that as closer we get to 4 the more response/discussion appears..

Jeff


Lets hope Cakewalk is reading although there are official channels as well I suppose.

It will be very interesting to look back over this thread and actually see how many features from here actually made it into Sonar 4.

Anyway...

1. Automatic recognition of presets and full access to presets from the rack view for all DXi's and VSTi's. Even Psyn which is a Cakewalk product does not have its presets accessible form the rack view unless you save them again in Sonar first.
nachivnik
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/30 15:25:51 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: kp

But a piano keyboard is horribly unnatural in itself (just historically convenient): there is an implied difference between naturals and sharps/flats which doesn't actually exist in a mean tempered key.


Hark! A guitarist speaks!
Philippe1970
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/30 20:07:06 (permalink)
The feature that I would like to see (maybe even before Sonar 4!) would be:

Ability to record very long time at high quality

Presently, we are limited to a file size of about 2GB. If we want to record a stereo track in 24 bits, the duration is limited to a few hours.

An alternative (probably better) would be to automatically split the file when needed (or maybe at an user specified interval or file size).

Ability to start/stop recording of tracks while recording or playing

In some situations (like live recording of songs and speech), I might like to record more tracks for songs (maybe multitrack) but only 1 track when there is a long speech to avoid useless disk space waste.

One thing that would then be possible is to record a mix on 1 (stéréo) track and record other tracks only when they are used.

A related interesting option would be to be able to record only when the input is not silent (well, recording should be active but discarded so that nothing would be missed when something came back on the track). This would be on a track by track basis.

Ideally, it would be possible to either start/stop recording in the same project or open a new project and start recording in it while we are recording in another project.

Better support for multiple WAV and pictures folder

I would like to be able to have more that 1 folder for these and the program be smart enough to choose the right one.

I have an external hard drive on which I like to record when it is plugged by I want to uses my laptop drive otherwise.

I would like to be able to uses a prefix for files that would be specific to the selected folder so that I would be able to move files from my internal drive to my external drive when I come back home (and without the problem that the file already exists but is used for something else --- it happen me too much often).


The ability to load files created before computer crash

When recording WAV Sonar should remember files that are recording so that we can restore them when Sonar is restarted.

Also, if I try to import such a file that was recorded when the computed crash, Sonar should be able to fix the file header so that it become usable (sample rate and lengh properly set).

Easy way to split a project in many project

Often I record many live songs and speed without interruption and then afterwards I like to make a separate project for each song (that way I can adjust track settings for each song easily).

Faster WAV picture displaying after loading a big project

It takes long time to display the picture when loading project with long files (for ex. 1 hour).

Another thing I like to be improved is that the picture cache seems to be overwritten in a project with multiple longs tracks so that a track appears to have no sound in it (it looks like Sonar discard a track in the project if the cache is full).

It could be usefull to be able to force a picture refresh.

Also if I uses only a portion of the file, i would like not to have to wait for the picture of the whole file to be done.
Xavier
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/30 20:29:48 (permalink)
I have an idea:

Assuming there is a FINAL date we can get this list in for consideration, and it hasn't already past...

How about a week before that date every votes on the 1 thing they most want from planist's awesome list when it is finalized. (or maybe our top 3 in order -- a #1 pick counts more...)

Then Cakewalk can see what is most important to the masses. We would have some more pull that way, and it would be easier for Cakewalk to organize (hence more programming time)...


(sorry if someone already suggested it somewhere, if so I second it )
Al
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/30 22:29:32 (permalink)
proper tempo envelopes. This has been touched on already, but i haven't seen anyone say specifically that they'd like to see tempo changes behave the same way as other envelopes. From within the Tempo View, I'd like to be able to graphically insert tempo change points by double-clicking on any given point. I'd then be able to right-click on any point, or any curve, and change all the things you can in a regular envelope. As far as a curve goes, i'd like to be able to select "fast curve", "slow curve", "linear", or "jump".

I see that someone else mentioned being able to use a pencil tool in envelope creation. I think integrating the pencil tool with the envelope tool would help in both areas where these tools are used separately. Another example would be the MIDI controller pane- right now you can only use a pencil for that, but it'd be nice if you could use an envelope. Giving the user the option of choosing the level of granularity would definitely be a positive step.

One other interface that might be considered is Macromedia Flash's tool for drawing- you can set whether you want edges to be rigid or liquid by choosing "straighten", "smooth", or "ink" in the pencil tool. This would also go a long way in giving the user more control over the level of granularity.


Great , but not JUST envelopes ..
also realtime control ( at least let us have realtime response of the Tempo slider changes.. a MUST ! ) -

taken from that other thread -
" although this is one feature that i guess we'll have only around 2009
i would REALLY like to see a new way of controlling the Tempo in Sonar !

Imagine a slider ( assigned to a midi controller of your choice.. if you need that)
that can let you handle tempo changes in realtime - for previewing and trying stuff in Play mode..but would
ALSO let you record these changes to the Tempo Map - the Tempo View window .
... recording it like Automation events .

could be fantastic for rit.'s and accelerandos ! "
cmusicmaker
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RE: SONAR 4: Future Features 2004/07/31 02:58:22 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Xavier

I have an idea:

Assuming there is a FINAL date we can get this list in for consideration, and it hasn't already past...

How about a week before that date every votes on the 1 thing they most want from planist's awesome list when it is finalized. (or maybe our top 3 in order -- a #1 pick counts more...)

Then Cakewalk can see what is most important to the masses. We would have some more pull that way, and it would be easier for Cakewalk to organize (hence more programming time)...


(sorry if someone already suggested it somewhere, if so I second it )


This is a very good idea and if planist has not already done it I think it should be done and sent through the official channel to Cakewalk. They have confirmed they are working on Sonar 4 now and it will be a real waste of a great deal of effort from planist if all these suggestions are bypassed by Cakewalk because they were never going to go through all of the 10+ pages in this thread!

planist...have you sent this list through the official channels yet? Xaviers idea is a very good one but it really should be followed up with a summary of all the key features we all want and then sent through as quickly as possible or it may get bypassed by Cakewalk.
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