Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

>> After some searching I found out that a 64bit audio engine was introduced with Sonar 6, not Sonar7 as I thought all this time.


That's still incorrect. The first public release of the 64 bit audio engine and a fully native 64 bit app was way back in SONAR 4 way before anyone else did it. We released a technology preview of the 64 bit app before Jan 2005. You can read about it in this KVR announcement.
http://www.kvraudio.com/news/cakewalk_releases_free_beta_version_of_64_bit_sonar_2901

Here is a white paper that was published around that time
http://www.cakewalk.com/Press/release.aspx/White-Paper-Benifits-of-x64-for-Audio-Workstations

Aaah-ha
Thanks a lot for chiming in and setting me straight there. Believe it or not, I feel much better knowing I was wrong than I felt thinking (wrongly) Cakewalk was still bragging about it although they should know better by now.  It really is relieving to me.

Posts are being delayed. I suspect they are being read by them upstairs and after a short meeting they make a decision on whether to allow it. Yours got through, I'm happy to report.

Jonbouy

strikinglyhandsome1


I can only see this thread ending if someone starts dating Yoko Ono and she comes along and posts in it.

Not likely IOW?

Isle Of Wight Jon?

bitflipper


"The world is full of marketing departments trying to convince you that equipment and specifications can substitute for talent & hard work. This is not true, the 'performance' transcends the medium every time. The performance includes musicianship, vocals, orchestration, arrangement and the mixing decisions. These are all under your control and have little to do with the DAW software you use or plugins you have."


Among the sea of virtual ink that's been devoted to this topic, this is probably the best paragraph ever written. It should be lesson #1 to be memorized and taken to heart by every newly-minted home recordist.

Despite that my 'British' build Sonar still sounds 20-40% better especially with 64 bit processing turned on.

You can't go by all that you have to trust your ears...

Especially if you are recording 'real' instruments and not just playing with loops...

frankandfree: I guess this just shows what then?  Do some research and then report your findings instead of this inane breadcrumb trail.

Jonbouy

Jind

Jonbouy


Jind and Lance before you snowball into a whole defence force I was talking about this forum generally not the thread specifically.  If you check back you'll see it was a response to Karl's light-hearted general post. 

I note you bypassed the bit about the new Rewire too.

And there ya go as if to provide a perfect example of what I'm referring to. 

You really think I'm reinforcing your "defense force" claim by simply pointing out the OP's problem could have been resolved earlier by:


1. Instead of venturing into the "This DAW is better for Dance music, this one for Rock" conversation that ensued early on instead of troubleshooting with some sort of logical removal of variables most likely to result in differences in audio quality.


or


2. The lesson learned - include sample files of the audio when trying to determine if/and/why two different items sound different.


You truly think that's an example of Fanboism, a great Sonar Defense Force public relations statement?  
Truth be told, I have always been pretty clear that I could care less what any other person uses as a tool to make music as I too use many tools with the only bottom line being what works for me.  If anything I'm much more in the Craig Anderton school of thought of using the best tool for the task you are attempting to accomplish and that one size definitively does not fit all. 


My golden rule of product usage is the day I'm no longer happy with a product I use will be the day I stop using it, and that I could care less how anyone else creates music.


I'll continue to see happy users as nothing but happy users and people with problems as people with genuine problems they are trying to work through, it does not change whether they are on the Sonar Defense Force or the Moving on to Another Product team - use the tool that gets the work done for you is as simple a statement as there is.

That's why I'm a Sonar fan, there's plenty or areas where I ain't though.

I will use my time here to attempt to progress the inherent flaws that crop up for me daily even though I'm well in the 90th percentile of satisfaction with the product generally.

Saying how great the new Rewire implementation is for example will not get it to the stage where it stops it from being able to cause the very same problem as the OP had here, other than it wouldn't have been down to user error.

Again despite my pointing out that you had, and still are, for reasons best known to yourself continuing to partially quote me completely out of context, I'll re-iterate, my comment was on the general conduct on this forum not this specific thread.

It also contained comment that the new 64 bit implementation is simply a port over from the previously existing flawed 32 bit one.  Again you didn't mention that bit.

To ensure I've not "taken you out of context I'll respost our conversation so far - I was unaware of the requirement to comment on every part of a post when my issues with are with singular statements.


So here you go:


Back on page 15 Jonbouy stated:

The inference I get is that when folk here don't like what's being said about their favourite DAW software they'd rather collude to make a bunch of noise to drown out that voice rather than listen to what is actually being said. 

Generally people don't like a party pooper especially when they confront the revellers with a simple fact that could threaten the state of blissful ignorance among them. 

For example selecting any of the 'Stereo' outs (other than the 'Mains') on the shiny new 64 bit Rewire implementation will have caused anyone the same problem as the one the OP was having without the cause being user error. 

Simply because it's taken 5 months just to recompile the good ol' 32 bit implementation without even addressing the several years old output selection issues.

The inference I get is that when folk here don't like what's being said about their favourite DAW software they'd rather collude to make a bunch of noise to drown out that voice rather than listen to what is actually being said. 

I responded to the portion I thought thought a little unfair to those trying to help with the original posters issue:

I think that's a bit unfair - the end result turned out being that it was not any inherent flaw in the audio engine, that regardless of DAW used, the sound was the same.  This thread went off topic the moment folks started responding with the premise that somehow certain DAW programs were better for certain types of recordings or had inherent "flavor". I suspect if that path was never taken and the original OP had posted audio files with his original post, this would be a much shorter (albeit less entertaining) thread. This was not Sonar fanboys protecting the almighty DAW, it was people saying it must be something other than the "flavor of a given DAW".  Ultimately those that ruled out the DAW being the culprit (aside from a valid complaint about the Interleave button no longer being visible) were correct - human error ruled the day (none of can say they have not made assumptions in the past or are error free 100 percent of the time - human error tends to be the most likely culprit in many cases). 





Lessons learned: 





If you have a problem with the "sound" of something it's always helpful to post samples of what you are hearing with the original problem report so others can use there ears to see if they hear the same thing.  





We have some very experienced folks with very good ears here. Great catch on the underlying issue. 

Jonbouy responded:

Jind and Lance before you snowball into a whole defence force I was talking about this forum generally not the thread specifically.  If you check back you'll see it was a response to Karl's light-hearted general post. 

I note you bypassed the bit about the new Rewire too. 

And there ya go as if to provide a perfect example of what I'm referring to. 

I responded (somewhat concerned I was being lumped in with this Defense Force when I thought it was clear I thought the OP's problem would have been solved pages ago if a particular path not taken):

You really think I'm reinforcing your "defense force" claim by simply pointing out the OP's problem could have been resolved earlier by: 



1. Instead of venturing into the "This DAW is better for Dance music, this one for Rock" conversation that ensued early on instead of troubleshooting with some sort of logical removal of variables most likely to result in differences in audio quality. 



or 



2. The lesson learned - include sample files of the audio when trying to determine if/and/why two different items sound different. 



You truly think that's an example of Fanboism, a great Sonar Defense Force public relations statement?   

Truth be told, I have always been pretty clear that I could care less what any other person uses as a tool to make music as I too use many tools with the only bottom line being what works for me.  If anything I'm much more in the Craig Anderton school of thought of using the best tool for the task you are attempting to accomplish and that one size definitively does not fit all.  



My golden rule of product usage is the day I'm no longer happy with a product I use will be the day I stop using it, and that I could care less how anyone else creates music. 



I'll continue to see happy users as nothing but happy users and people with problems as people with genuine problems they are trying to work through, it does not change whether they are on the Sonar Defense Force or the Moving on to Another Product team - use the tool that gets the work done for you is as simple a statement as there is. 

I did not respond to your issue with the "new" x64 Rewire (or not not new as you believe) because I had nothing to add?  I don't use Rewire, it had nothing to do with the OP's problem. I'm not ignoring your issue, I'm simply not effected by it, thus have no comment. Why would I respond?  I also don't think my response is  a "perfect example" of a conspiracy to not address real issues.
I'm sure you have issues with Sonar, I'm sure you want to see improvements, I'm unsure what it had to do with this particular thread.  Do people really need to bring up their issues with a product in a thread dedicated to someone else, non-related problem?

I also don't think people are fanboys or defenders if they have no issues with a given product, I tend to think (hope) they genuinely want to assist those that do have issues.  I'm sure there are exceptions, just as I'm sure there are certainly those just trying to stir the pot, but blanket categorizations are probably not necessary as people can read, they can come to conclusions for themselves.

Have I responded to your concerns? Am I now and forever categorized as a "defender"? Do I really need to address every point made in a post where I want to answer just one portion of for fear of being a "perfect example of" whatever?  Have I taken things out of context or did I go overboard by re-posting our entire conversation? I'll be honest - it just seems silly, but you noted, I somehow took you out of context so I wanted to make sure I was not commiting said sin again.

There I've done my part to push this thread towards legendary status. 

Yes - this was a little tongue and cheek I'm sure and definitely off topic - for this I apologize.

I'll be interested in seeing if a response is required as I'm pretty sure I've now addressed every concern.  But I expect I will, simply for all the questions I've posed (mostly in jest).

Back to making music. 

You guys realise you are now arguing about the argument after the argument is over?

I tried to end it, I really did but ego and the need to be understood(actually to be right) drives this thread. It's a beast out of control I tell ya.

Middleman


THE END

Nice try. Don't think it worked tho

 I was going to the worst place in the world and I didn't even know it yet. Weeks away and hundreds of posts up a thread that snaked through the forum like a main circuit cable plugged straight into X1. It was no accident that I got to be the caretaker of X1's memory any more than being back in the forum was an accident. There is no way to tell its story without telling my own. And if its story really is a confession, then so is mine.

"I ain't heard no fat lady sing. "
Independence Day X1D Sonar User.

I'd love to see this thread made into a film. The cast of lord of the Rings could come as they are and play the forumites. Danny can write the book, if he promises to keep it down to about 15 volumes. Maybe have a soundtrack where every third track isn't as clear as the other two before it.

Is this the right fred to increase my post count without anyone noticing?

Well I am and no one has said anything yet.......

bapu


Is this the right fred to increase my post count without anyone noticing?

It's beginning to look like it, roight?