Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/09 19:48:47
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ORIGINAL: eratu
Very encouraged to hear you're happy with Vista x64 SP2. That says more to me than anything else. I know we had some growing pains early on but it's obvious you kept at it, so I value your comments on the matter more than anyone else's.
Looking forward to getting back into x64 -- the Vista x64 experiment I'll run this week is really just to lay the groundwork for Win7, plus I really want to test out BitBridge again for Cakewalk. I had issues before and want to see if I can replicate them before they close the door on bug reports in prep for Sonar 9.
Anyway, I can't "officially" move over to x64 just yet, and I figure I might as well wait for Win7 for the big move.
As for the latest Barracudas, I've heard some great things about them. Will check them out. I was a little concerned with Seagate with the problems on the prior generation (I think 7200.11?), and one of my drives had the weird problem, but normally I really like them. 7200.12 is supposed to be excellent. All the latest drives I've bought have been the WD Black series, though, and they've been pretty darn nice too.
Will let you know how it goes!
Take care, too, my friend!
Go for Solid state SDD disk instead. At least one for boot Windows. OCZ 2.5# AGILITY SERIES 60GB SATA/300 SSD MLC 0.35ms access time YEAH, you read that right; that's less then 1 millisecond access time.   http://www.ocztechnology.com/ By the way; I use Seagate normal HD drives...working fine! Regards Freddie 
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/09 20:02:18
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soundtweaker
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/09 19:54:13
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I was thinking about building a new comp in October with SSD but Im not sure about the long term reliability of SSD drives.
Ive heard about some of them failing after a certain amount of rewrites.
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/10 02:59:07
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I heard else! Actually there are more reliability then normal HD:s because there are no moving parts. Its the same with FLASH memory, Its the same kind of technology but SDD are faster and even better. I'm sure you have already read all those kind of torture tests about flash memory. Through the memory in water, In the microwave, dip them in coffee, berry them into the ground and so on, all kinds of bad things and they still work. So I wouldn't worry... but you should always make backup anyway, always... Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/10 03:11:11
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PaPi
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/10 04:45:12
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ORIGINAL: Freddie H
I heard else!
Actually there are more reliability then normal HD:s because there are no moving parts.
Its the same with FLASH memory, Its the same kind of technology but SDD are faster and even better.
I'm sure you have already read all those kind of torture tests about flash memory.
Through the memory in water, In the microwave, dip them in coffee, berry them into the ground and so on, all kinds of bad things and they still work.
So I wouldn't worry... but you should always make backup anyway, always...
Regards
Freddie
Hopefully it's not the same technology as regular flash memory, since the latter will only give you a finite number of rewrites before it fails... http://www.getusb.info/what-is-the-life-cycle-of-a-usb-flash-drive/
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/10 05:06:43
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No, its a new technology based on flash memory...so that's cool! I think a lot has happen on normal USB flash memory too after over 2 years time.... 03.08.2007. I have never had a USB memory that has failed, have you PaPi? You right, you should always be careful with all new technology but I think SDD its pretty safe! Best Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/10 05:21:13
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PaPi
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/10 06:46:22
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ORIGINAL: Freddie H
I have never had a USB memory that has failed, have you PaPi?
Yep, I used an 8gb one as ReadyBoost RAM on my laptop and it suddenly died after less than a year. It was more or less a test, since ReadyBoost is very read/write intensive and I expected it to fail sooner or later. BTW, because it uses the relatively slow USB2 interface, ReadyBoost is next to useless (not fast enough to handle samples, basically only useful to keep a gazillion applications open at the same time.)
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/10 10:15:06
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ORIGINAL: PaPi
Yep, I used an 8gb one as ReadyBoost RAM on my laptop and it suddenly died after less than a year. It was more or less a test, since ReadyBoost is very read/write intensive and I expected it to fail sooner or later. BTW, because it uses the relatively slow USB2 interface, ReadyBoost is next to useless (not fast enough to handle samples, basically only useful to keep a gazillion applications open at the same time.)
I see! I tried Ready boost with help of USB flash memory too PaPi. I didn't see any performance gain at all either? I don't know if I used wrong USB memory or what? It even failed to boot my computer one day until I unplugged the USB drive? Anyway DDR3 1333mHz RAM is much faster then USB flash drive so I think Ready Boost will just be legacy very soon.... . I use 8GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333mHz Dominator in my DAW computer that gives my total 16BG of RAM of use already with Virtual Memory include. Next build I will try to fill it up again with maximum DDR3 too. As from now, you can now use maximum 24GB physical DDR3 RAM memories in the newest ASUS Intel Corei7 motherboards, that gives you total 48GB RAM of use with Virtual Memory include. I think you pretty set then regarding Memory... hehe... that's just awesome! Have a nice weekend PaPi! Regards Freddie
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soundtweaker
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/10 11:24:21
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My readyboost USB stick died also which is why im a little hesitant about flash memory but Im sure SSD drives have a better memory tech in them. Im just hoping motherboards will be implimenting USB3 by October like they have planned.
post edited by soundtweaker - 2009/07/10 11:37:16
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PaPi
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/13 22:07:50
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I'm sorry for the shameless bump, but this thread has to be always readily available for anyone who uses or intends to use Sonar 8/64. How about making it a sticky?
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 01:00:17
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 05:56:20
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ORIGINAL: PaPi
I'm sorry for the shameless bump, but this thread has to be always readily available for anyone who uses or intends to use Sonar 8/64. How about making it a sticky? Absolutely! BUMP!
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Paul Russell
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 06:34:13
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It doesn't matter that hard disks are slower than SDD. Your disk isn't the bottleneck in a Sonar project, unless you've got 144 tracks of 24/96 audio playig simultaneously.
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 08:59:41
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ORIGINAL: Paul Russell
It doesn't matter that hard disks are slower than SDD. Your disk isn't the bottleneck in a Sonar project, unless you've got 144 tracks of 24/96 audio playig simultaneously. That’s right Paul!
There non bottle necks in 64bit OS systems or Sonar 8, 64bit except for the 32bit applications really. Anyway, the main benefits of SDD disks are only load time. You will load everything even faster, like example boot WINDOWS VISTA and start “Programs†on the same SDD disk. New SDD disks access time as low as 0.32 sec. So real life example: (don’t remember the program in use for this example but...) normal load time with SATA Raptor disk was 32sec. Same program load time with SDD disk was 2.3 sec. That’s a huge different! So if you use a SDD disk on example Sample-disk like with Omnisphere Library, patches will load much faster. No wait time at all browsing thru patches. Same benefits will be with EAST WEST instruments and Kontakt 3 Libraries that can take as long as 1-6sec to load with normal SATA300 disk. Actually that isn’t very long time either with normal SATA disks, but still the same “Instrument†will load with SDD disk, like a blink of an eye! You wouldn’t even see that it did load! That’s why SDD disk is on the move up and except the benefit that it is much faster than normal SATA drivers, it use overall lower power use too, so that why they are so popular on Laptops. Regards Freddie
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eratu
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 12:50:14
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Just wanted to get back to you all with a quick update. I was able to run some more tests with Vista x64 (using latest Sonar x64 and BitBridge, with latest versions of some key plugins) this past weekend, and I was pleasantly surprised that things are working better than ever. While I wasn't able to test the NI plugins (pain in arse installation snafu and I ran out of time), I can say that Cakewalk has really made some improvements to BitBridge since the last time I took it out for a spin.
I was able to run fairly low-latency without nearly the issues I had before on an aging quad-core test machine (much slower than my main production DAW), so I'm feeling pretty encouraged about making the "official" leap to Win7 x64 when it comes out. With Kontakt x64 in beta (and a number of people reporting pretty good results), a couple of key plugins now out in x64, promises of imminent releases of x64 from some other critical developers, some positive info from Cakewalk and their efforts with BitBridge, plus the jBridge product to serve as a possible backup option, I'm getting pretty confident that my next attempt at transitioning to x64 will be successful!
I even got confirmation from Lynx that they will support Win7 (not that it's a surprise, but nice to read), so I think the time has almost come (for me, at least) to finally, really make the jump!
Thank you to Cakewalk for keeping on it, despite procrastination and endless delays from third-party developers, and thanks to the guys here who didn't give up trying to get x64 to work in a real, production environment. May your Gigs of RAM be filled with lovely samples and your DAWs never crash!
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Jose7822
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 13:24:57
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Eratu,
Not that Cakewalk doesn't deserve to be credited, but Microsoft also did a really good job in Vista with the release of SP2. In my testing, SP2 was really what made things solid in Sonar 8. That's when I realized that we were blaming Cakewalk for the shortcomings of the OS. I used the same version of Sonar 8 from SP1 to SP2 BETA (when it first came out) and I was blown away by the results. Right then I knew that Microsoft finally listened and now the future looks brighter for all Windows users. Hope they keep it up.
Take care!
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eratu
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 13:37:57
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Thanks, Jose, I did not realize that SP2 was such a large part of the overall improvement. Last time I tested, was... hmmmm.... I think right before SP1... not sure. It was around that time... maybe just after SP1? Anyway, with this recent test, I updated my Vista x64 to SP2, 8.3.1, latest plugins, etc... so I saw quite an improvement in one blast. :) Good news indeed. I hope they don't botch W7.
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Zonno
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/14 16:55:54
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I'm a bit worried about ReWire.
ReWire was made by Propellerheads and the Propelleheads have been busy making their new daw called Record, which is fine for them.
But that drove their attention from making ReWire 64-bit and making a 64-bit version of Rewire is obviously not their priority.
This has not only impact on using Reason with SONAR 64-bit, but also Project5, which uses rewire.
If I've missed something about 64-bit development on ReWire, I'd be pleased to know.
Cakewalk, Reason 10, KOMPLETE 11, BIAB 2018, Roland OctaCapture, Finale 26, PCR-300, HP ZBook, Guitars __________________ Any text above is a random collection of characters which bear no meaning whatsoever. The reader will be held liable for any damage due to interpretation of these characters.
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 04:52:22
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ORIGINAL: Jose7822
Eratu,
Not that Cakewalk doesn't deserve to be credited, but Microsoft also did a really good job in Vista with the release of SP2. In my testing, SP2 was really what made things solid in Sonar 8. That's when I realized that we were blaming Cakewalk for the shortcomings of the OS. I used the same version of Sonar 8 from SP1 to SP2 BETA (when it first came out) and I was blown away by the results. Right then I knew that Microsoft finally listened and now the future looks brighter for all Windows users. Hope they keep it up.
Take care!
+1
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 04:56:51
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ORIGINAL: Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
ORIGINAL: Zonno
I'm a bit worried about ReWire.
ReWire was made by Propellerheads and the Propelleheads have been busy making their new daw called Record, which is fine for them.
But that drove their attention from making ReWire 64-bit and making a 64-bit version of Rewire is obviously not their priority.
This has not only impact on using Reason with SONAR 64-bit, but also Project5, which uses rewire.
If I've missed something about 64-bit development on ReWire, I'd be pleased to know.
Agreed - please send your requests to Propellerheads!
I have even called them directly in Sweden on the phone… No progress..? I wonder if they actually know there are something called 64bit yet? You can wonder?   MY advice is to all; don’t support them boycott there products until they release 64bit plugins! Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/15 04:58:12
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cmusicmaker
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 08:14:06
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eratu
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 11:01:47
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Just got this from NI:
"Dear BATTERY user,
The upcoming free BATTERY 3.0.5 update will bring crucial
enhancements to the leading percussion sampler. This
includes a revised sampling engine, support for Windows
Vista 64bit........"
Woo-hoo!
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inmazevo
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 13:27:10
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ORIGINAL: Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
ORIGINAL: Zonno
I'm a bit worried about ReWire.
ReWire was made by Propellerheads and the Propelleheads have been busy making their new daw called Record, which is fine for them.
But that drove their attention from making ReWire 64-bit and making a 64-bit version of Rewire is obviously not their priority.
This has not only impact on using Reason with SONAR 64-bit, but also Project5, which uses rewire.
If I've missed something about 64-bit development on ReWire, I'd be pleased to know.
Agreed - please send your requests to Propellerheads!
Indeed. I wonder what the stumbling block is for them? There are sort of two things needed/desired with rewire. 32bit to 32bit hosts rewire works, even on 64bit systems apparently 64bit to 64bit hosts rewire is another 32bit to 64bit hosts rewire is yet another, and likely the first thing that would actually be usable (I mean, what do you rewire anyway... Live/32bit... reason/32bit... that sort of thing) I'm wondering if that's the stumbling block. 32 to 32 is one thing... 64 to 64 is another... but 32 to 64 might be a relatively difficult programming hurdle, and given that most of the apps you'd rewire to a 64bit host are 32bit, perhaps they're just waiting for the likes of Ableton to make their app 64bit first. Logic is 32bit as well. I think we'll see far more cries for cross-bit rewiring once Logic and Live are 64bit. Live probably will be the next time around, given that their library is getting pretty large, and more 64bit plugins are available (do those even work at all in Live?). Logic will most certainly be 64bit on its next release, which will also almost certainly come after Snow Leopard, alongside the rest of the Pro Apps moving to 64bit. ORIGINAL: eratu
Just got this from NI:
"Dear BATTERY user,
The upcoming free BATTERY 3.0.5 update will bring crucial
enhancements to the leading percussion sampler. This
includes a revised sampling engine, support for Windows
Vista 64bit........"
Woo-hoo!
Not to burst a bubble, but I still don't know exactly what this means. Massive and Battery 3 being compatible with Vista/7 64bit doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be x64... just that they'll work. Adobe did that with several of their Creative Suite apps: "support for 64bit," but the fine print read: "as a 32bit application." Very different. Crossing fingers. In any event, I don't want to go too far off topic. - zevo
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eratu
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 14:43:00
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ORIGINAL: inmazevo
ORIGINAL: eratu
Just got this from NI:
"Dear BATTERY user,
The upcoming free BATTERY 3.0.5 update will bring crucial
enhancements to the leading percussion sampler. This
includes a revised sampling engine, support for Windows
Vista 64bit........"
Woo-hoo!
Not to burst a bubble, but I still don't know exactly what this means. Massive and Battery 3 being compatible with Vista/7 64bit doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be x64... just that they'll work. Adobe did that with several of their Creative Suite apps: "support for 64bit," but the fine print read: "as a 32bit application."
Very different.
My understanding is that they are x64. I know the Kontakt beta is x64, so I will assume based on similar language that the Battery beta is x64. So yes, this is what we were hoping for. As has been reported already, a number of people are having good results so far with x64 Kontakt. Massive is also already x64 so the whole NI family is finally making the move. :)
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 15:06:01
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ORIGINAL: inmazevo
Not to burst a bubble, but I still don't know exactly what this means. Massive and Battery 3 being compatible with Vista/7 64bit doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be x64... just that they'll work. Adobe did that with several of their Creative Suite apps: "support for 64bit," but the fine print read: "as a 32bit application."
Very different.
Crossing fingers.
In any event, I don't want to go too far off topic.
- zevo
Native Instruments, EastWest, Vienna,Spectrasonics, Voxengo and Izotope's and so on are all 64bit VST and some direct X applications too. FULL NATIVE 64bit apps! So Machine, Massive 1.1.4, Battery 3.5 and Kontakt 3.5 are FULL NATIVE 64bit applications nothing else! I see your point about Creative Suite apps though! Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/15 15:10:07
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PaPi
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/15 16:55:27
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ORIGINAL: eratu
My understanding is that they are x64. I know the Kontakt beta is x64, so I will assume based on similar language that the Battery beta is x64. So yes, this is what we were hoping for. As has been reported already, a number of people are having good results so far with x64 Kontakt. Massive is also already x64 so the whole NI family is finally making the move. :)
Yes, let's not forget that the latest Guitar Rig 3 update also went 64-bit native, so it's fair to assume that NI are slowly but steadily taking the entire Komplete 5 package to 64-bit native status, although frankly the remaining parts (B4II, Akoustic, Elektrik, Reaktor, Absynth, FM8 etc.) are all working reasonably well through BitBridge. Something a bit odd I noticed yesterday is that Kontakt 3.5/x64 beta's standalone wrapper isn't 64-bit native (Vista put it in the program files (x86) folder), despite the VST being 64-bit native. I don't usually use the standalone application, but I wanted to perform a test without starting Sonar, so that's how I found out. But anyone who uses it (maybe for live performance?) should be aware that it's not 64-bit native, meaning that you won't be able to take advantage of the extra memory even if the VST is 64-bit. I'm sure this discrepancy is only due to the fact that we're talking about a product still in beta...
post edited by PaPi - 2009/07/15 16:57:45
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/16 04:21:50
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ORIGINAL: PaPi
Something a bit odd I noticed yesterday is that Kontakt 3.5/x64 beta's standalone wrapper isn't 64-bit native (Vista put it in the program files (x86) folder), despite the VST being 64-bit native. I don't usually use the standalone application, but I wanted to perform a test without starting Sonar, so that's how I found out. But anyone who uses it (maybe for live performance?) should be aware that it's not 64-bit native, meaning that you won't be able to take advantage of the extra memory even if the VST is 64-bit. I'm sure this discrepancy is only due to the fact that we're talking about a product still in beta...
It doesn't matter were its installed on the computer really! Kontakt 3.5 BETA, STANDALONE is still in NATIVE 64bit too as the 64bit VST-plugin. If you check INFO tab inside Kontakt 3.5.xx BETA Standalone you will see that it says “x64†also. Conclusion = Kontakt 3.5 Standalone is native 64bit too even if its install in X86 Program folder. Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/16 04:23:43
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mlockett
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/16 12:16:01
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inmazevo
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/16 12:39:33
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Thanks for the clarification, all. Oh, man... Kontakt 3.5!!!! Just got it last week or so... finishing the machine rebuild. Perfect timing. Now I really wish I'd taken a vacation day.  - zevo
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eratu
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/16 12:48:43
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Awesome! <evil grin> I'm a happy, happy composer right now. This will make a big difference.
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Freddie H
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RE: !!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/07/16 13:01:15
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-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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