John
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/26 18:22:17
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The 64 bit version is certianly greater than the 32 bit version - so Since its "Free", just go ahead an update. You won't be missing anything associated with 32 bit. Why the worries? The worst thing that can happen is that you remain with the capabilities that you currently have.
Maybe you have not followed me enough. I am fully 64 bits. I don't even have Sonar 8.5.2 32 bits installed only the 64 bit version on my 64 bit system. I am pro 64 bits and have been for a long time. None the less I have questions and saying 64 bits is greater then 32 bits is not very helpful. Nor in context to what I am asking telling me to upgrade seems rather backwards. Not taking into acount that I have done so. What prompted this is the angst that many show about plugins that need Bitbridge. I wonder if it really matters. I don't know what point you are trying to make but in the past there were plugins that processed at 64 bits in a 32 bit environment. It was fine for them to do that. I wonder that a plugin that is still processing at 32 bits if it is will it be any better in native 64 bits? Sure it will recieve 64 bits and output 64 bits but will it make any real difference? Some samples and convolutions plugins can and do use 16 bit files. Will that impact the quality or not? To me these are not simple questions and I am interested in the answers.
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/26 19:38:44
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John,
If a plugin is internally processing data at 64 bit but outputs it at 32 bit, then you end up working with less precision even if Sonar's 64 bit engine is ON. The plugin is tossing out data at the output. It is not the same to have 64 bits of data being processed end to end than having 32 bits being made into 64 bit, if that makes sense. Think of it as the same as working with 24 bit files as opposed to 16 bit files.
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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John
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/26 20:50:10
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Jose7822
John,
If a plugin is internally processing data at 64 bit but outputs it at 32 bit, then you end up working with less precision even if Sonar's 64 bit engine is ON. The plugin is tossing out data at the output. It is not the same to have 64 bits of data being processed end to end than having 32 bits being made into 64 bit, if that makes sense. Think of it as the same as working with 24 bit files as opposed to 16 bit files.
How do we know that it is? I think no one is getting the question. I don't know a better way to ask it. This is my fault. How do we know that a plugin that was full 32 bits before and processed at 32 bits which most did when ported to 64 bits is not still processing at 32 bits? Do we know for sure that by simply having it as a native 64 bit plugin means that the data is also 64 bits. What happens in hosts that are 64 bits but only process at 32 bits? I know that this may not sound all that possible but I don't know what is happening internally. Beside I only of a few that say what is going inside plugins. They are often the ones that have something to brag about. If a 32 bit host can process at 64 bits then it stands to reason the a 64 bit host or plugin can process at 32 bits. CW has tried to alert us as to the internals of a plugins with the hash marks in the FX bin but this only goes so far. Maybe it just a dumb question.
post edited by John - 2009/12/26 20:57:46
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Elffin
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/27 05:25:19
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Interesting...
I''ve tried to get shwa's Tinman audio fx to work (available 64bit native) .. it won't work if the 64bit precision engine is 'on'..
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/27 14:12:03
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Hey John,
I see what you mean (though you're asking a different question now :-). I was gonna suggest the use of Cakewalk's Bitmeter, but it seems that either Bitmeter is broken or Sonar is not processing in 64 bits when the 64 bit engine is enabled. I'd rather it is No. 1 though. Does anyone know of a free (or trial version) 64 bit meter I can download to check this out? If it's Sonar that's not processing in 64 bit, then we need to know ASAP.
Thanks!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/27 14:56:24
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Alright,
I downloaded Stillwell Audio's Bitter (requires JBridge) and I could confirm that the problem is Bitmeter. It also allowed me to confirm that, as John feared, just because a plugin is native 64 bit doesn't mean it is outputting at 64 bit. One example is Guitar Rig 4.
The easiest way to find out if a plugin is outputting at 32 bit or 64 bit is by looking at the small white ticks (?) it has hanging at the bottom of it in the FX Bin. It should have at least 2 for Mono FX and a total of 4 for Stereo. I just wanted to use a Bit meter to confirm that the plugin was actually outputting at the correct bit depth.
Well, hope this helps answer your question John.
Take care!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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John
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/27 14:58:27
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Jose7822
Hey John,
I see what you mean (though you're asking a different question now :-). I was gonna suggest the use of Cakewalk's Bitmeter, but it seems that either Bitmeter is broken or Sonar is not processing in 64 bits when the 64 bit engine is enabled. I'd rather it is No. 1 though. Does anyone know of a free (or trial version) 64 bit meter I can download to check this out? If it's Sonar that's not processing in 64 bit, then we need to know ASAP.
Thanks!
Not really. Its just that I don't know how to frame it well. LOL If I knew more it might be easier. 
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Muziekschuur at home
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/28 09:18:23
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Jose7822
I found that too. On Vista64 business with 64 bit enabled and with a 64bit plugin the bitmeter is restricted to 32bits.
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/28 10:29:16
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Thanks Muziek. I'll report it to Cakewalk.
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Paul Russell
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2009/12/28 11:50:44
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The difference between 64bit and 32bit floating point resolution is very very small - especially if it's all going be mastered at 16/44 <12dB RMS.
I wouldn't get too stressed about trying to bounce down to it. Especially with something as lofi as Schwa's Tinman in the mix.
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Elffin
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 16:13:59
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 18:13:45
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Cool!
Added to the list. By the way, we have another 64 bit DAW on the market. Logic Pro 9.1 is the first native 64 bit DAW on the Mac side. So it seems Apple finally got the message. Anyways, just thought I mention it :-P
Thanks Elffin!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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Elffin
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 18:44:46
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Unless anyone states differently I'm assuming this convo only plays the included IRS.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 18:51:25
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Jose7822
Cool!
Added to the list. By the way, we have another 64 bit DAW on the market. Logic Pro 9.1 is the first native 64 bit DAW on the Mac side. So it seems Apple finally got the message. Anyways, just thought I mention it :-P
Thanks Elffin!
Looks like inertia is slowly being overcome. The train is pulling out of the station folks.
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inmazevo
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 20:19:12
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Jose7822
Cool!
Added to the list. By the way, we have another 64 bit DAW on the market. Logic Pro 9.1 is the first native 64 bit DAW on the Mac side. So it seems Apple finally got the message. Anyways, just thought I mention it :-P
Thanks Elffin!
Hehehe... downloading the update now. It will be interesting to watch all the "my 32bit plugin doesn't work in the bridge" threads... they've already started, actually. Nice. Just some props I need to send out for this thread: I'm trying to "port" this thread's idea over to the logic pro forum. Community pressure works wonders, and a single space of communication I think has been a VERY good thing. For all who have positively participated: thanks. I'll try and replicate the idea. The inertia's definitely there now: Sonar Reaper Cubase (on Windows, anyway) Logic Pro All 64bit. That's a pretty good list, IMHO, despite what we might think about any given one of them. And the pressure's on: Logic users have been complaining about its 32bit memory cap pretty much ever since LP9 and Omnisphere came out, loudly. Ableton Live users are actively requesting it, and since Ableton recently announced a big announcement that's only days away, I'm wondering what might come of that. If the Props would get off their "whatever" and do some 64bit rewire and/or rex love, we'd be really rockin' out. Hopefully the last 50% of the switch will only take a year, instead of the 3+ years the first 50% took.  Love it. - zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2010/01/12 20:24:31
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 21:39:17
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I love it too!
We now have 4 major DAWs (there's also Studio One by Presonus, but it is still not considered a major DAW for now) on the two main music platforms (Win and Mac), so there's no excuse anymore.
All plugin developers need to forget about 32 bit and move foward with 64 bit for crying out loud!
Zevo, I wish you luck with your port and hope that it is as successful (if not more) than this thread.
Take care everyone!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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dontletmedrown
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 21:55:22
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I forgot about this thread. Judging by the current 64 bit plug-in list on page one, it seems that 64 has a loooooong way to go. The list of compatible plug-ins is pathetic. I don't know why the 64bit campaigners would even waste their time pushing the smaller companies. If you can convince Waves, UAD, and IK then the entire industry will follow suit. I see my entire plug-in collection is not 64-bit compatible. That is pretty funny.  I guess me and 32 bit are meant to be.
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dontletmedrown
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/12 22:00:09
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BTW can anyone comment on Waves plug-in performance using bit bridge?
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 00:03:23
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Hey Dave,
I heard Waves will port their plugins to 64 bit by the end of this year.
At least we're getting there :-)
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attalus
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 00:41:09
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Digidesign has released a x64bit beta for their Protools platforms and PT is a major force in the industry. Wave Arts told me in a email that there will be a beta of Tube Saturator soon that is x64bit, they'll most likely make all plugins x64 in the near future. I use the Sonic Core SCOPE Platform and there is about to be x64bit beta released this month for it wich will make it easy and possible for me and other SCOPE users to go x64 aswell. This is the year X64bit O/S will take off in the industry i believe.
post edited by attalus - 2010/01/13 01:21:00
A wise man learns from his experiences, a wiser man learns from everyone elses experiences.
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Elffin
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 04:21:07
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 05:39:40
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Elffin
This link makes the search on Kvr for 64bit plugins.
Care is needed here. As far as i can see this list plugins that run on Windows 64 bit OS, but that does not always mean that they are 64 bit native, of that they will work in a 64 bit DAW. For example I tried the demo version of Lin Plug Organ 3 after seeing it appear using the 64 bit filter on KVR, but it is 32 bit and runs in Sonar 64 using bitbridge.
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Elffin
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 05:58:11
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Yes podfarm is the same Glyn. I got in the free offer - pity really
Vast majority are 64bit native though.
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SONARtist
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 06:01:14
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Jose, I had forgotten about this thread too, but I'm ever so glad that it keeps being bumped. Thank you for the one-stop-shop for 64bit plugins etc. A really great source for anyone considering going full 64bit. Gracias !
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 09:49:08
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No problem SONARtist.
I need to update this thread though, as I have forgoten about it myself :-P
Take care!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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Paul Russell
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 10:17:54
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BTW, the PSP sQuad selection of 4 EQs is now 6 EQs, fully x64 and on sale at 60% off ($99) until 17th Jan. iLok or Challenge Response authorisation. They have also upgraded Vintage Warmer to be fully x64. The installer installs both PSPVW1 and PSPVW2, both of which are x64 native. And don't forget PSP84 and OldTimer. Other x64 plugin corrections for your list include EWQL Play: x64 for over a year. Version 1.25 is the current Pianoteq is v 3.52 now Softube are developing x64 versions at the moment Nebula 3 TC Electronic has a public beta of the x64 Powercore drivers which seems quite stable, although the plugs themselves are still x32 Toontrack have released the public beta of Superior Drummer 2.2, which is, as far as I can tell, as good as a release candidate. A word of warning. The Soundtoys native bundle does not support automation in Sonar x64 and the Soundtoys developers are flatly refusing to fix this. Do not buy any Soundtoys products until this is fixed.
post edited by Paul Russell - 2010/01/13 10:34:17
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MIDIMINDS
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 11:08:22
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dontletmedrown
BTW can anyone comment on Waves plug-in performance using bit bridge?
I get an occassion graphics glitch, but otherwise have no issues. Of course, Tune doesn't work since it requires ReWire support.
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Jose7822
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/13 11:11:42
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Paul Russell
BTW, the PSP sQuad selection of 4 EQs is now 6 EQs, fully x64 and on sale at 60% off ($99) until 17th Jan. iLok or Challenge Response authorisation.
They have also upgraded Vintage Warmer to be fully x64. The installer installs both PSPVW1 and PSPVW2, both of which are x64 native. And don't forget PSP84 and OldTimer.
I had most of those already on the list, except for Vintage Warmer. The PSP84 doesn't say is 64 bit native (unless you are confirming that it is?).
Other x64 plugin corrections for your list include
EWQL Play: x64 for over a year. Version 1.25 is the current
Pianoteq is v 3.52 now
Added them a long time ago.
Softube are developing x64 versions at the moment
Nebula 3
TC Electronic has a public beta of the x64 Powercore drivers which seems quite stable, although the plugs themselves are still x32
Toontrack have released the public beta of Superior Drummer 2.2, which is, as far as I can tell, as good as a release candidate.
Just added these.
A word of warning. The Soundtoys native bundle does not support automation in Sonar x64 and the Soundtoys developers are flatly refusing to fix this. Do not buy any Soundtoys products until this is fixed.
Thanks for the warning, and for the heads-up on the other 64 bit plugs. Take care!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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cmusicmaker
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/14 13:15:55
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attalus
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Re:!!!!THE 64 BIT CAMPAIGN!!!!
2010/01/14 16:54:05
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cmusicmaker
Not sure if this is already on the list but AAS have made their x64 plans very clear their whole line up will have x64 native versions very soon. Makes that recent no brainer $15 Ultra Analog deal even better!
I may even buy Tassman again now since their plugins will be x64. I just hope they come with a version 5 for it soon. That Modular synth has potential if developed right.
post edited by attalus - 2010/01/14 17:05:43
A wise man learns from his experiences, a wiser man learns from everyone elses experiences.
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