ORIGINAL: wintaper

Memory is probably the main area where 64-bits helps,

And thus, buried in your well-composed post, you hit on the primary reason. Those of us who deal with this would heartily agree.

There are thousands of us who constantly bump into the limitations of memory. I have dozens of projects that would benefit from >3GB or >4GB... from years ago. And I have projects right now, that I constantly battle with the edges of maximum memory. Things get crazy far earlier than 4GB as you may know, even with LAA. A lot of legacy plugins were never even tested >2GB, unfortunately. And yes, there are many plugins that even up until recently (and even from very reputable developers that I won't name), that would crash >2GB! So this is a very serious issue for some of us. Anyone who deals with large sample sets, or multiple instances of common, memory-chewing plugins will benefit tremendously.

As for performance, you already mentioned the benefit of being able to load things into memory. If you can get as much as possible into memory, then you don't have to worry about pesky little issues like hard drives not being able to keep up with complex projects, and all the sluggishness that causes. On a huge video/film project, hard drives have enough work with streaming tracks and video, let alone trying to keep up with multiple instances of massive soft samplers and other plugins that rely on the hard drive for content.

If you don't need it, then of course, wait it out. Everyone is different and has different types of projects, understandably so. But this is really important to a lot of us, and this thread is a great place to hear about new developments in this arena.

Another big reason is Sonar uses less CPU in 64bit.
We all know it doesnt run any faster it just runs more efficiently.
Think of it as a 6 lane highway rather than a 2 lane highway.
Some of the guys on this site have already proven that with benchmarks.

If you use 64 bit plugs there really isnt any tradeoffs.
NI will have KONTAKT, MASSIVE and BATTERY, 64 bit ready by the fall.

Dont be scared people. Take the plunge.

ORIGINAL: eratu

ORIGINAL: wintaper

Memory is probably the main area where 64-bits helps,

And thus, buried in your well-composed post, you hit on the primary reason. Those of us who deal with this would heartily agree.

There are thousands of us who constantly bump into the limitations of memory. I have dozens of projects that would benefit from >3GB or >4GB... from years ago. And I have projects right now, that I constantly battle with the edges of maximum memory. Things get crazy far earlier than 4GB as you may know, even with LAA. A lot of legacy plugins were never even tested >2GB, unfortunately. And yes, there are many plugins that even up until recently (and even from very reputable developers that I won't name), that would crash >2GB! So this is a very serious issue for some of us. Anyone who deals with large sample sets, or multiple instances of common, memory-chewing plugins will benefit tremendously.

As for performance, you already mentioned the benefit of being able to load things into memory. If you can get as much as possible into memory, then you don't have to worry about pesky little issues like hard drives not being able to keep up with complex projects, and all the sluggishness that causes. On a huge video/film project, hard drives have enough work with streaming tracks and video, let alone trying to keep up with multiple instances of massive soft samplers and other plugins that rely on the hard drive for content.

If you don't need it, then of course, wait it out. Everyone is different and has different types of projects, understandably so. But this is really important to a lot of us, and this thread is a great place to hear about new developments in this arena.

I understand wintapers points but your response eratu, really mirror my thoughts exactly. Yes of course there are issues to bear in mind when making the x64 step up but if it is well thought through and you have done your homework (needs, drivers, support e.t.c) then it is well worth getting Sonar and working on an x64 OS. Cannot see myself going back now.

ORIGINAL: wintaper

I'm for 64-bit, I'm running it on one machine, but some of the fanatic posts here are a little extreme

"fanatic posts" where?

Running an x64 OS is not going to benefit everyone. No one was forced into it and no one is being forced into it. Not sure what the problem is here

With Windows 7 virtualisation will be available too. What if your 32bit old old plugins were there in a virtual WINXP32 audioported into Cakewalk SONAR 9 under WIN7 64bit so your project is safe but your plugins could or could not crash without impact on the project......

ORIGINAL: wintaper

In fact, programs load slower because all the files would be twice as large.

What?

Then there's the audio world. Almost all hardware samples at 192kHz 24-bit. Internally by your DAW, that value is treated a a 32-bit float to allow overhead. I forget the math on how much overhead this is, but suffice to say it far exceeds the theoretical limit.
24 bit audio has been around for a while, and there's been no rush to increase that number - since it far exceeds what we can hear. It provides 16.7 million 'steps' in the digital wave, which was a huge improvement over 16-bit's 65,535 steps. Raising up the sampling rate also improves audio quality, but here again, more bits isn't helping anything. In fact, thinking the 24-bit audio stream up to 64-bit ends up taking quite a bit of CPU.

64 bit OS and executables does not relate directly to the audio bit depth.

Memory is probably the main area where 64-bits helps, ...

Agreed. This is what it's all about for me, but I do use large sample-sets and am prone run out of memory.

I also agree that for most user, it's not important to move to 64 ASAP... though eventually, I'd guess that's the way everything will go.

ORIGINAL: eratu

ORIGINAL: wintaper

Well, I guess excuse me for attempting to dispel some of the myths around this issue. I'll go back to making music now.

I didn't think anyone was giving you a hard time about it. Your comments should be and ARE welcome.

Agreed yes.

SIGN for 64 bit.

Once NI has stabilized Kontak 3.5.x (and it's stable under Sonar 8) my world will be a better place.

ORIGINAL: stlum

SIGN for 64 bit.

Once NI has stabilized Kontak 3.5.x (and it's stable under Sonar 8) my world will be a better place.

+1

Hi! (Attention: EW)

Did you know (Kontakt 3.0.2, 32bit bitbridge) that Kontakt 3, after load a “song” in SONAR 8, 64bit with Kontakt 3:


1. Tweak the Loaded K3 instruments with the SONAR “Song”

2.Tweak the instruments “Modulation” “AHDSR” values are incorrect.

3.If you try to save that Instrument with that values and then reload the “Song” or re-open the K3. Instrument; example the “Hold” and “Decay” values are incorrect, much shorter?

4.SONAR 8, bitbridge can also crash!

5.Try to save Instrument can cause bitbridge and SONAR 8 64bit to freeze or crash





Overall Conclusions:

If 32bit application with SONAR 8 bitbridge crash its not Cakewalk, SONAR 8, 64bit fault.
It's no Microsoft VISTA 64bit fault either.

The fault are that some snail slow jack-ass manufactures haven't released the Native 64bit version yet. THEY are the one to blame not Cakewalk or Microsoft! Thank god that a official 64bit version of Kontakt 3 will soon be released. Omnisphere are also soon 64bit too and the new Trilogy will be in Native 64bit. Stylus RMX are already in 64bit! Many Voxengo plugins are in 64bit already and East West are in 64bit. Vienna are in 64bit and Izotope are in 64bit too!

Hurray, finally something going in the right way! Nomad Factory (AFAIK) will soon be in 64bit too....

I hope SONAR 8 ,64 bit version (The only version that matters) will soon be in full 64bit so all the included plugins that are in 32bit now gets updated to a Native 64bit versions instead...especially the plugins.

Regards
Freddie

ORIGINAL: wintaper

ORIGINAL: soundtweaker
Another big reason is Sonar uses less CPU in 64bit.

Oh it does?
I'm a C, C++, ASM programmer and I'd love to know how that works.
On my testbed of identical machines it uses the same or slightly (2%) more (due to bit-bridge)

Check how many registers are available using ASM in 64 bit vs 32 bit mode. Also the fact that more data can run faster through 64 bit registers in 64 bit mode.

Rewire, LIVE 8, Reason 64bit solution for all users of SONAR 8, 64bit!


Hey!

Have you also getting tired of waiting on Manufactures like Propellerheads and Celemony doesn't get it and update there Plugins and Softwares to 64bit? All those plugins / Software's have been useless of you have planed to work in full NATVIE 64bit, SONAR 8, 64bit version.

"Rewire" example REASON, LIVE, doesn't work in SONAR 8, 64bit neither does the (Celemony) Melodyne bridge or the Melodyne plugin. You need to use the 32bit version of SONAR 8 that gives you less quality in Audio, Higher CPU use and less RAM Memory to work with. All bad news for anyone that want to use there NATVIE 64bit computer seriously.

To overcome this pain in ass problem I have found a solution that I will gladly share with anyone that are interested!



You need this to make it work!
*****************************************************

1.An extra AUDIO card. ( if you plan to use ASIO)


2.Midi interface and a MIDI cable



That's it!

*****************************************************


Melodyne STUDIO or Ableton LIVE 8 (Freddie Rewire64bit)

1. MTC sync signal. Connect the Midi cable to a free port on you Midi interface. Let say you have 8 ports MIDI interface and in this example add the MIDI cable to a FREE port, Insert the MIDI-cable into “Midi port 8 IN” and insert the other MIDI-cable end to “MIDI port 8 out”. Now you have looped the MIDI signal running from MIDI OUT 8 to MIDI in 8 on your MIDI interface. We will later send the MTC SYNC signal to this MIDI port.

2. Open SONAR 8, 64bit.

3. We want SONAR 8 to be the MASTER in the system so we go to Options “Project Options”

4. Press “Clock” tab and check your settings, Source =Audio Timecode Format 30 FPS ndf

5. “Midi out” tab MIDI Machine Control (MMC) Transmit MMC =Check, YES!

6. “Sync” tab. Important, don't send MIDI clock to the same port as the MIDI MTC sync port (in this example MIDI port 8) so un-check that on “MIDI Sync Out Ports” = Port 8 in this example

7. Send MIDI Time Code = Check YES!

8. MTC Out Ports = Check MIDI port 8 in this example. The same MIDI ports as we did installed the looped the MIDI cable earlier.

9. NOW Open the next DAW or SOFTWARE. Tell the second DAW software to SYNC MTC from MIDI-port “8 IN" in this example.


To get more info how to do this check you manuals and check here....
http://www.tweakheadz.com/sync_mmc_mtc_smpte.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_articles/jun96/miditimecode.html


If you got it right you will be able to sync the “Transport” PLAY ,STOP, “locater”, Rewind & Forward, anything from SONAR 8 64bit. Exactly the same as you use Rewire but we can't hear any sound yet inside SONAR 8 64bit, because we don't have any AUDIO inputs from that second DAW or application yet. But all else Plays a long. So when you hit PLAY in SONAR 8 64bit, example; Melodyne 3 Studio, Ableton LIVE 8, Cubase, or Pro Tools plays and follow its “MASTER” “(SONAR 8)” in exact the same BARS & BEAT position as in SONAR 8 64bit.

You can use how many DAW / Applications you need or like in that system. But it can only be one MASTER, SONAR 8 64bit, so let the rest SYNC from the “MTC” MIDI PORT IN. (Port 8 IN in this example)




Next: How to get AUDIO inside SONAR 8, 64bit in real time!

1. (ASIO) Add a second “2 AUDIO”-card and let the example; Melodyne 3 Studio or Ableton LIVE or Cubase use this card”
http://www.asio4all.com/

2. Route the Audio outputs from the “2 AUDIO”-card into the “1 AUDIO”-card that SONAR 8, 64bit use.

3. There you go; You have got AUDIO from that Second DAW / Application.

REASON user; Use it in “Standalone” mode "2AUDIO"-card and use the MIDI to play the synth!



Perhaps it all still is confusing but take you time reading the manual about SYNC and check the Webb to get more additional information HOW to set this up.
Think of it; “the second DAW / Application”; like as it was a hardware ADAT-Tape recorder but instead, its inside your computer...


Hope it help and good luck!

Regards
Freddie

ORIGINAL: cmusicmaker

Voxengo's Tube AMP v.2 is out of Beta... it has the usual Voxengo mix of x86 and x64 variants. Oh and one more thing... it is still free.

Thanks! Great!

Well, I didn't read all of the great posts in this thread, but any word on Tassman by Applied Acoustic Systems, or any of their synths?

Stillwell audio.... CMX 64bit...

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=267

http://www.liquidsonics.com/software.htm

Liquidsonics has made a 64-bit beta of their convolution audio processor Reverberate http://www.liquidsonics.com/software/Setup_Reverberate-x64_1.005.exe. 30-day demo, very affordable to purchase, can load two IRs for true stereo capability.