Skyline_UK
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 10:07:38
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A CW insider did confirm on another forum that the lifetime subscription was their idea and not imposed on them by Gibson. They were probably trying to stave off increasing pressure to financially perform, which is not an unusual situation in a Parent/Subsidiary relationship. (I've been there in my working life). Maybe Gibson should be blamed for (a) not thoroughly challenging financial projections from Roland and Cakewalk before buying, and, crucially, CW's marketing plans which always seemed to me to be not their forte, (b) thinking a 'hands off' management style would be best. All this might have been compounded by Gibson's management style which according to the internet is a one-man one where perhaps sage advice is not heeded or unavailable.
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Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
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robotecho
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 13:17:12
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Skyline_UK
A CW insider did confirm on another forum that the lifetime subscription was their idea and not imposed on them by Gibson. They were probably trying to stave off increasing pressure to financially perform, which is not an unusual situation in a Parent/Subsidiary relationship.
Fair enough, but I think you can be reasonably confident that Gibson saw it as an exit strategy, if it was handed to them then all the better. It does make it a more sympathetic one though. I've no doubt it was on the table as "take this funding boost, and sink or swim". But I reckon Gibson had a pretty good idea where it was going.
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soens
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 13:47:21
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But then in the midst of this they come out with Momentum and brought back Home Studio for some reason. Also to gain quick funding? Or in hopes it would help salvage the cause?
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 15:37:14
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☄ Helpfulby jyoung60 2017/12/16 16:47:46
daveny5
Tried Mixbus4.... not even close to Sonar. I couldn't get it to work at all. Not at all intuitive in my opinion.
I have Studio One, but never really used it. Will give it another try, I guess. My next choice will be Reaper. Great, I have to buy and learn a new tool. I definitely won't sink anymore big bucks into it, that's for sure.
PS: I'd like to add that I am pissed that Gibson made this decision. This may have been jobs to you, but it was a big part of my life. I spent a lot of money and time to use your top of the line product and you pull the plug on it. You can't sell it to another company? It had no intrinsic market value? Really sucks guys. Glad I never bought one of your overpriced guitars. Guess no one else wants to pay those prices either. Soon they'll be made in China or India.
Sorry, but I had to vent.
 A fanboy to the bitter end, eh Dave? I wonder, do you attach even the slightest culpability in all this to Cakewalk? Maybe their software designers for not coming up with a better and ultimately more commercially viable product? Or if the software was that good, why not level the blame at the Cakewalk marketing department for not shifting enough units? Judging by some of the recent revelations concerning the demise, it would seem that a lot of the problems stem from the upper management level at Cakewalk, not from Gibson. For all we know, the plug might have been pulled in 2013 (when Roland jumped ship) had Gibson not stepped in and pumped money into a failing Cakewalk - thereby propping it up and keeping it open for business for the last four years. Don't get me wrong, none of this means that Gibson shouldn't be implicated in this. It just seems absurd to me that the parent company is wholly at fault for Cakewalk's failing.
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jtma508
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 15:42:08
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Any chance that those of us that 'bought' the 'lifetime subscription' have the makings of a class action suit against Gibson?
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italy1234
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 15:52:55
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Gibson had to fire all the idlers. And make a new development course for Cakewalk.
And cakewalk didnt want add a new functional for their DAW. In last version Sonar seems like more modern DAW. But they could made more if glanced at Reaper or S1.
I love Sonar. And it's very terrible fact if the will not develement the DAW
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chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 16:33:23
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2017/12/16 16:56:42
SteveStrummerUK
I wonder, do you attach even the slightest culpability in all this to Cakewalk?
Maybe their software designers for not coming up with a better and ultimately more commercially viable product?
Or if the software was that good, why not level the blame at the Cakewalk marketing department for not shifting enough units?
I believe that is a fair question and yes, I definitely put some of this on Cakewalk. However, we have been hearing some bizarre stories, like the CEO of Overture (notation software) Offering Cakewalk a deal that would include it in Sonar as an integration. But Gibson declined. So the CEO came back with an almost practically free integration offer (with hopes of users buying full versions) and Gibson denied that as well. This wasn't rumored, The CEO said it himself on this forum about 2 weeks ago. http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3698875 So while I do blame Cakewalk, I have to wonder about Gibson's motives. Cakewalks Momentum was out less than 10 days before Gibson shut it down. Hardly enough time to see if it could reap the benefits on this new software. IMO, Gibson saw more money in a "business bust write off" than they wanted to invest in a company probably breaking even (but had potential).
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 17:13:08
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2017/12/16 18:36:07
chuckebaby
SteveStrummerUK
I wonder, do you attach even the slightest culpability in all this to Cakewalk?
Maybe their software designers for not coming up with a better and ultimately more commercially viable product?
Or if the software was that good, why not level the blame at the Cakewalk marketing department for not shifting enough units?
I believe that is a fair question and yes, I definitely put some of this on Cakewalk.
However, we have been hearing some bizarre stories, like the CEO of Overture (notation software) Offering Cakewalk a deal that would include it in Sonar as an integration. But Gibson declined. So the CEO came back with an almost practically free integration offer (with hopes of users buying full versions) and Gibson denied that as well. This wasn't rumored, The CEO said it himself on this forum about 2 weeks ago.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3698875
So while I do blame Cakewalk, I have to wonder about Gibson's motives.
Cakewalks Momentum was out less than 10 days before Gibson shut it down. Hardly enough time to see if it could reap the benefits on this new software. IMO, Gibson saw more money in a "business bust write off" than they wanted to invest in a company probably breaking even (but had potential).
^^^ This Nice to see such a balanced view Charlie. Gibson definitely wouldn't have taken on Cakewalk from Roland if they didn't see it making them some money at some stage in the future (shock/horror - business wants to make money). The real crux of the matter is surely how they envisaged this was likely to happen. I'd tentatively suggest that Gibson's two most likely means of recouping both the cost of buying Cakewalk and subsequently bankrolling it would be: - The obvious one - by guiding/overseeing the development of the business until it was no longer losing cash but producing income for both Cakewalk and Gibson
- By steering the ship (maybe in similar fashion to 1. above) until Cakewalk was in a fit enough financial state to realise their investment by selling it on to a third party (or even to a Cakewalk management buy-out)
However, it seems that option three (in my humble opinion by far the worse option for every party concerned), i.e. cutting their losses and running (while facilitating as much of a cash-grab as possible?) has been the chosen path. I doubt we'll ever know the real facts, and speculation will continue to be rife. But business is business, and profitable companies will always outlast failing ones.
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Maarkr
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 18:03:11
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Studio One sounds open to ideas from Sonar users. Have any of the bakers gone to work for them? or admit it? Maybe tweak some Sonar enhancements slightly into Studio One to avoid copyright infringement? Is their programming done in Baton Rouge? Culture shock Boston to BR, lol.
Maarkr Studio: SPALT Lifetime/BL Cakewalk, Studio One 3.5, UAD, Z3ta+2, IKM, NI, Waves, iZotope, Melda, Reaper i7 3770/Giga Z77 mobo, Win10 Pro-64 w16Gb, MOTU Ultralite MK4, Yamaha HS80M wSub, Live: PX-5S, FA-06, Roland Lucina, Epi Les Paul, Ibanez Bass, Amps, e-drums, Zoom R-16... Latest album release, NEW! Counry Classic at http://genemaarkr.bandcamp.com/
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CoteRotie
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 18:55:02
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Today's rambling:
My ex-wife worked for Opcode. I've heard a Henry story or two :)
I still went for the lifetime subscription knowing what was very likely to happen. Given the pace of upgrades, new features and bug fixes I even started to hope that things would be OK. Not shocked that they aren't. You don't get half a billion dollars in debt with no clear path out if you have stellar management.
Still, I don't feel bad that I did my part to support the Bakers, they did a lot of good work and I feel like most of them put in a huge effort. Personally I don't feel too bad about the lifetime thing. I understand how others might feel cheated.
SONAR still has some annoying bugs, yesterday I found one working with Vocalign and ARA, and one with automation and Dim solo. Could have to do with plugs or something else outside SONAR, but I'm moving as quickly as I can to Studio One AND Cubase. I don't want to spend time without official support to track down bugs that have no chance of ever being fixed if they're really SONAR bugs.
So far I've spent the most time with Studio One and I'm finding it super-easy to work with and stable but lacking in some things I'm used to in SONAR. (Or at least I haven't found out how to do them in S1 yet.)
For example I'm missing Dim Solo, especially during vocal comping (missing SONAR's vocal comping too!). Maybe it's there, but I haven't figured out how to activate it yet. It does have solo follows selection which is kind of nice.
Wait, wait, what key is it in? GA-X58A-UD3 motherboard Intel i7 950 CPU w/12 G RAM ATI Radeon 4350 graphics 3 cats 1 crazydog Lynx AES16/Aurora 8 SCA N72 J99 & A12 pres. Adam A7 Monitors Win 10 SONAR Platinum 64 bit
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stratman70
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 19:06:31
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Hey Dave
I am with you. I've said this before. Gibson WAS the BIG dog, the daddy in the house, the man, whatever. The buck stops with them....PERIOD. IMHO of course.
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lludwick
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 20:50:48
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I just bought a new music computer. First thing I installed was Sonar. So simple just load the command center and have everything install cleanly. Blah ... what a kick in the teeth. Roland will not get much good publicity from this for sure. I will certainly express my opinion of Roland on all my music sites.
I am 70 years old and have had this software from when it was the first beta. I will use it until I can't keep it running. Maybe it will outlast me. However, I can see myself making another DAW selection ... most likely a DAW that is not in the software graveyard.
I am sorry for all of us, especially the younger folks who could have profited from an excellent program with exceptional programmers.
The least they could do is give us a download of everything we have now where we would not have to rely on an online site to recover from a software catastrophe.
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JClosed
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 20:57:38
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lludwick
I just bought a new music computer. First thing I installed was Sonar. So simple just load the command center and have everything install cleanly. Blah ... what a kick in the teeth. Roland will not get much good publicity from this for sure. I will certainly express my opinion of Roland on all my music sites.
I am 70 years old and have had this software from when it was the first beta. I will use it until I can't keep it running. Maybe it will outlast me. However, I can see myself making another DAW selection ... most likely a DAW that is not in the software graveyard.
I am sorry for all of us, especially the younger folks who could have profited from an excellent program with exceptional programmers.
The least they could do is give us a download of everything we have now where we would not have to rely on an online site to recover from a software catastrophe.
Ehh - Roland?? I am sure you mean Gibson yes?
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Wibbles
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/16 21:58:29
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I blame Edison. Electrocuting Topsy led to all of this.
I'm off to see the Wibble, the wonderful Wibble of Wobble
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daveny5
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 01:02:58
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2017/12/17 03:27:21
Good point, Steve.... OK, I am pissed at both of them especially Cakewalk for foisting the **** Lifetime Updates on us fully knowing that was their last desperation Hail Mary to make money. Oh, and BTW, today TASCAM updated their driver for the US16x08 audio interface for the new release of Windows 10 and now I'm getting an error in Cakewalk "WDM Sampling Rate mismatch" even though I only use ASIO mode. So now I can only deal with them. If the problem is something in Sonar, I could be screwed.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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G1Records
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 02:26:34
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Will i ever be able to buy the plugins im yet to own? I rely on cakewalk its too good thats there problem. Aslong as it works and i can set up on another system the world is not over.
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G1Records
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 02:28:23
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Next thing you know they will discontinue the speakers i want before i buy them 👀
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daveny5
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 13:11:41
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2017/12/17 16:15:37
I wouldn't buy anything from Cakewalk or Gibson at this point.
post edited by daveny5 - 2017/12/18 17:32:46
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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deswind
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 15:58:30
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I bought a Les Paul just days before the announcement. I would not have done so, had I known.
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anydmusic
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 17:22:24
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G1Records
Next thing you know they will discontinue the speakers i want before i buy them 👀
If you are think of KRKs, have you seen the ones designed for Behringer by Keith R. Klawitter? I know that Behringer are not the most popular manufacturer but they seem to be trying to raise their game.
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anydmusic
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 17:29:13
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daveny5
I wouldn't buy anything from Cakewalk or Gibson at this point.
There mas be some good deals on a Gibson in 2018 if they go under. Personally I might be tempted if there are but for me the current guitars they make are seriously over priced. At least a guitar does not need the same type of support as software. Now for me its time to focus on making music and learning Cubase.
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
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Veets
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 21:36:48
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jtma508
Any chance that those of us that 'bought' the 'lifetime subscription' have the makings of a class action suit against Gibson?
I have been thinking about that too. I copied and pasted an email reply from tech support which I decided to buy the lifetime updates. I ended up purchasing the LT updates on 07/28/16 for $199.99. The issue becomes, how much will it cost me in legal fees to get back $199.99? This was my email query to CW: "Thanks. Just curious, if I miss out on this deal, what will the cost be? I have a ton of things coming up that I may not be able to purchase it. I was able to upgrade last year for the $149.99 as that was doable but $199.99 is out if my budget for now." Cakewalk's reply: "If you don't purchase lifetime updates and the offer were to expire, then you wont be able to update to lifetime updates. After August 31st 2016, I cant say for certain what changes will be made to the upgrade pricing model or if the offer will be perused further. If the offer were to continue after August 31st (which is not necessarily the case, i'm just using it as an example) Then the price would still be $199 for people who own Sonar Platinum currently. If there were no upgrade available for users who currently own Sonar Platinum, then it would all be based around (most likely) a monthly subscription to rolling updates. Once again I cant say for sure one way or the other what will happen after the expiration date of August 31st 2016." As I read the reply, the rep said he couldn't say "for certain what changes will be made to the upgrade pricing model or if the offer will be perused further" I think Cakewalk knew that Gibson was going in this direction, a company just doesn't decide that overnight. Is anyone else considering legal action?
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.
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 21:45:12
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Veets
Cakewalk's reply:
then it would all be based around (most likely) a monthly subscription to rolling updates.
Well at least they are finally admitting it was a ' Subscription'  Which is exactly what it was right up until you paid your last months payment (if you paid monthly) if you stopped at anytime before that you were left with squat.
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Happy Studio One User Since August 2015
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Karyn
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 21:51:42
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Let's not start this again, it was a payment plan. As with any payment plan you get to keep only if you keep up the payments.
Now keep on topic please.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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G1Records
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 22:29:50
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Not keen tbh the les paul tobbaco burst are the only ones i fancy at the minute. And the fact they're are not popular means i could start a trend or maybe not lol
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G1Records
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 22:31:21
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You cant buy anything from Cakewalk last i checked?
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feal
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 22:31:25
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pissed off like so many others I doubt that crowd funding could give us back Sonar since IMO it's rather taylored to one off products like HW toys but not to SW that needs to be updated everynow and then. Gibson should sell the intellectual properties to the left over staff of cakewalk who is willing to go ahead with developing Sonar further. curious to see what they will offer to those who went for the lifetime subscription.
post edited by feal - 2017/12/17 23:57:01
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G1Records
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 22:35:36
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Its a shame. How long have you been using Sonar?
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G1Records
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/17 23:09:40
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MelisaNg
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2017/12/18 09:39:02
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Hoping ROLI swoops in and buys Cakewalk. Wishful thinking, I know.
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