vintagevibe
Read this veeerrrrry slowly.  I switched to Cubase and do all of my creative work and new files in it.  I have hundreds of Sonar files that I still use.  I have said both of these things on many occasions.  Now you are calling me liar.

 
Show me where I called you a liar. A lie requires intent to deceive. I stopped short of that. I said disingenuous. That means not candid or sincere. It does not mean an intent to deceive. I can't read your mind, so only you know if you were not telling the full story in order to bolster any point you might want to make. That's why I didn't call you a liar.
 
I did say it wasn't honest (i.e., "free of deceit or untruthfulness; sincere") to switch stories within one week; I don't recall your mentioning in this thread that you had hundreds of files for which you still used SONAR. If so, then technically, you are a SONAR user although the thrust of everything you've said it that you have switched to Cubase and how much better it is than SONAR. The only time I recall seeing a reference to "hundreds of files" was in the post from two years ago; I don't recall anything about that recently and given your most recent post said that you switched to Cubase, I really don't think you can blame me for assuming that you...switched to Cubase. All you had to say was "I switched to Cubase, but remember, I still use SONAR all the time (or once a year, or whatever)" and this would not have been an issue. I'm sorry, but I find it very difficult to fill in the blanks of what you mean compared to what you say when I have no current data to help fill in those blanks.
 
 
Of course that doesn't address your other fallacies, but at least we've cleared up that when you said UNEQUIVOCALLY IN THIS THREAD IN YOUR MOST RECENT POST THAT YOU HAD SWITCHED TO CUBASE, that's not what you actually meant. So I agree, that wasn't necessarily a lack of honesty. It might have been, because you switched stories only when wanting to make a specific point and not a general statement, but I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt.
 

Now I suspect you will go through every word I've ever written to try and find gotchas.

 
Sorry, but you're wrong again. I've already found more than enough. You never did address the three main ones anyway which I flagged as "How can I misinterpret these?," and I doubt you ever will because doing so would mean you would have to give Cakewalk some credit. So far you have chosen not to do that, so I'll take a page from your playbook and say that based on the past, I don't expect any changes from you in the future. I don't think you'll be under new management any time soon...
 

I always assume that when I'm arguing a point with someone and all they do is correct my spelling that I've won the argument.

 
Show me where I corrected your spelling. If I did, it would have been a reflex action due to seeing a typo in something you said (old habits die hard) and I certainly didn't mention anything or call attention to it. I'd still like to know where you think I corrected your spelling. I don't think I did. 
 
However, that sentence tells me all I need to know. You see this only as something to "win" or "lose," not a means to identify the truth, correct past mistakes, make constructive criticisms, or acknowledge new realities. If I'd known that upfront, I wouldn't have wasted my time.
 
But you're wrong again, because no one wins in this. You don't win because you've been shown to be evasive, and incapable of giving credit to Cakewalk - even if grudgingly - for doing things you stated as fact they would never do. You have been shown to be wrong but incapable of admitting it and moving on to a more positive space. I would hope someone in your position would be gracious enough to say "I'm glad Cakewalk is finally doing these things" but I guess you're just not wired that way. I have often had the occasion to be happy I was wrong about something, and said so. I now understand you were more concerned about "winning" than acknowledging the reality that, despite your misrepresentations, progress is being made and the new team at Cakewalk is listening to what the users want (yes, even what I call the "vocal minority" users - and I count myself among that vocal minority for staff view because I think it will help Cakewalk in their goal to gain more penetration in the educational market - your misrepresentation notwithstanding).
 
I don't win, because some people will think I'm being mean. I've spent a huge amount of time on this that should have been spent on something else. Staff view fixes won't get done any faster because of what you or I have said. It was also a huge waste of time that I assumed what you said was an accurate representation, i.e., that when you said you had switched to Cubase, YOU HAD IN FACT SWITCHED TO CUBASE. I don't know what I can do about not being able to "read between the lines" because as I said, that post was the most recent update of your situation. I just accepted your statement at face value. If you had been able to articulate something other than negativity, that would have been helpful. But what would have been even more helpful is addressing the points that I identified as impossible to misinterpret, despite your claims that all these issues were due to my misinterpreting what you said. Since the whole crux of your entrance here was that I had misinterpreted you, showing how those sentences could have been misinterpreted would have ended it right there. But I suspect the reality is that I did not misinterpret those sentences at all, hence you doubled down on unrelated elements as a distraction, and this is the result.

@ vintagevibe
"No Soup for You" 

Kamikaze

vintagevibe
Read this veeerrrrry slowly.  I switched to Cubase and do all of my creative work and new files in it.  I have hundreds of Sonar files that I still use.

Why cannot he not switch to another program to create and not still use sonar Craig?

[rant]
Here is my quandary... since Craig has often said using multiple DAWs for what they do best is common (and often points out features of each), I get lost in this back-and-forth.
 
For someone like me who really only has ever used SONAR, I wonder if that makes me perceived as a "friggin idiot" for doing so? I do use Audition for all wav manipulations (not really a "DAW," since no MIDI), but my combined time with other DAWs (Ableton Live Lite 9, Reaper, Studio One v3 demo) is probably less than 24 hours...
 
Susan's comment really hit home with me, since any issues get immediately pounced upon and the person pummeled into submission. That mentality has to STOP... it has offended me so much that I took SONAR's "FaultReporter" offline... there is no value to a customer to help a company who behaves this way.
 
(those 12 Platinum dmp files I deleted before I disabled the FaultReporter might have had some nice information in them too)
[/rant]

...wicked
Meh, I don't use notation, I think a LOT of users don't. I would suspect if someone used it heavily they'd invest in a dedicated program. I remember Cake offered a deal for Notion way back, and sheesh Sibelius is the king daddy of notation progams. If one were really into writing that way I would think they'd buy it the same way people really into pitch correction would upgrade to the full version of Melodyne.
 
I don't think notation feature-hungry folk shouldn't get what they want, but like Cake have directly said, there's bigger fish to fry. I can think of at least ten features I'd like to see that would be way more important to me than notation. But hey, deep down I hope we ALL get what we want! :-)

This is just muddying the water. NOBODY is asking for Sibelius quality notation.The point is staff view should work  (like PRV) for MIDI EDITING. Most users just want the bugs fixed and basic workflow fixes to make it useful for composition and editing, and printing basic lead sheets etc. People who don't use staff view seem to always come back to the idea that folks are asking for Sibelius capability - not generally what is being asked for. (btw - my response for people looking for fixes/enhancements to things like Drum Replacer is generally "meh" so i try to stay out of those threads.

^Kamikaze
Maybe you could look into something like this?
http://www.musitek.com/
Scan, edit and play sheet music.

“When I sit at my worm-eaten piano, I envy no king in his happiness" -F.J.Haydn
 
When Haydn was in his 80s, he wrote to a friend and said "I've just learned how to write for the woodwinds".
He said this after writing over 100 symphonies.  
 
JG
 

jsg
“When I sit at my worm-eaten piano, I envy no king in his happiness" -F.J.Haydn
 
When Haydn was in his 80s, he wrote to a friend and said "I've just learned how to write for the woodwinds".
He said this after writing over 100 symphonies.  
 
JG
 

 
Why could Mozart not find his mentor?
Because he was Haydn.
 

I for one would not object if this old Notation thread were retired in favor of the new Notation thread. No disrespect to the OP; your thread is probably headed for the Sonar Forum Hall Of Fame for its sheer longevity. But this one has clearly descended into darker and darker waters, and perhaps the titanic struggle currently underway will then welcome the opportunity to call it a day.

michael diemer
I for one would not object if this old Notation thread were retired in favor of the new Notation thread. No disrespect to the OP; your thread is probably headed for the Sonar Forum Hall Of Fame for its sheer longevity. But this one has clearly descended into darker and darker waters, and perhaps the titanic struggle currently underway will then welcome the opportunity to call it a day.

 
I agree.

Well the thread subject title needs editing at least... There have been quite a few fixes now.

Brett
I'm making my biannual return to the forums to see if anything has been fixed. Can something point a link to this new thread?
 
Brett

Hi Brett-
 
Here you go: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3246511
 
HTH-
 
-Susan
 

Please note that no one from Cakewalk has been negative toward anyone in this thread. The only contribution from Cakewalk was making statements that were transparent, and have in fact turned out to be true.
 
As it says in my sig "The opinions expressed in this post were written by Craig Anderton in his personal capacity and do not necessarily reflect the views of Cakewalk Inc. or Gibson Brands Inc." 
 
I acknowledge that VV's comments really got to me much more than they should have. I have been advocating improvements to staff view with SONAR on behalf of the community. I know how hard the people at Cakewalk work and how sincere they are about taking care of user requests. What I saw, and of course it can be debated whether my assessment was correct or not, was Cakewalk's integrity being attacked by someone who was making statements presented as fact that subsequent experience has shown were not true.
 
I also made the mistake of taking words literally, like "switched," instead of seeking clarification whether that's what the person actually meant. Furthermore, I was going through a very difficult period in my life (still am) that involved yet another death in my immediate family. There have been too many of those lately, and my cousin's suicide hit me particularly hard. As a result I have less patience than ever with people who attack others, and I never had a lot of patience in the first place. The world is a painful place and when I see good people being dissed for reasons that I believe are unjustified, it makes me go ballistic. The irony is that then I become negative as well.
 
I take responsibility for my actions and they should not reflect on the Cakewalk staff. I still believe Cakewalk was unfairly attacked, however there's no doubt I should have handled my reaction to that a lot better. I admit that I'm a "momma bear" regarding people I care about, and that's not always a good thing.
 

I've been appalled at the lack of thought put into the Sonar staff view for a decade. How could they not address this? I use Sonar for film and television composing; and a lot more composers would also if they looked into these aspects of the program. It doesn't have to be as involved as Sibelius or Finale but it could as least be somewhat usable. I'm sure not all Sonar users need to work in staff view, but plain and simple: someone might want to print out a midi part and have a performer play it. In film/TV composing, you need to do it all the time.
 
Why even have it if it's going to be so lame? The only change I ever saw in staff view started with the X series, and it's worse than it was before!! 
 
Come on Cakewalk, hire a grade 3 piano student to go over it a bit... geez! Such a great program for many other reasons... or link it to a popular notation program.
JG
 

 
Thanks for the reply! I didn't say it was unusable, I said it was lame, which it is. I'd try other DAWs but I've used sonar/cakewalk for over a decade. It's a great program and I'm very used to it. I just wish the SV was a little better. There have been so many versions of sonar and no decent update to the SV. When I need a properly notated part, I have to start from scratch in another notation program, which is very time consuming and doesn't link to the Sonar file.
 
Obviously, it can deal with very simple patterns but anything beyond an 8th note triplet is out of the question. Poly-rhythms? Grace notes? Multiple consecutive time signatures? The list goes on... The view doesn't even extend beyond a few ledger lines above the staff. They've truly ignored it. 
Would love to see an upgrade of any kind to it.
Cheers
JG 

 
Just trying not to be rude to the other fellow... thanks for the heads up about that bug... that's crazy! 
Cheers
JG